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PSA: How interaction speed reduction calculations work
This is basic physics you should learn in high school, but many people have been having problems with it, so here we go. A decrease in speed of x% does not translate to an x% increase of time spent.
- Interaction speed in Dead by Daylight, in the case of generators, healing, repairs, sabotage, and so on, is measured in charges per second (c/s).
- Each interaction has a set number of charges required for completion. Healing, for example, requires 16 charges (16 c).
- The base interaction speed is 1 charge per second (1 c/s).
- To get the total interaction time, you divide the number of charges required by the interaction speed.
- In the case of healing, it's 16 charges divided by 1 charge per second - 16 c/1 c/s = 16 s.
- A speed reduction of x% means that the number of charges per second (the speed at which the interaction is completed) is reduced by that amount.
- In the case of Thanatophobia, for example, if two people is injured you have a 9% speed reduction. That means that if you're trying to heal someone, you are only healing them at a rate of 0.91 charges per second (1 c/s - 0.09 c/s = 0.91 c/s). The total healing time becomes 17.6 seconds (16 c/0.91 c/s), which is a 10% increase in time spent.
I put the more important bits in bold, which should allow for a quick TL;DR read.
Comments
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Thank you 😊0
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Also, most people get confused because players usually refer to these things in just one unit, and that is seconds (time).0
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Where were you while I was studying Physics at high school Orion!
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Seems like I need to create more math questions for Dead By Daylight now.0
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@Khalednazari said:
Seems like I need to create more math questions for Dead By Daylight now.No, you don't.
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Default Dwight wants to come out of the closet.Orion said:@Khalednazari said:
Seems like I need to create more math questions for Dead By Daylight now.No, you don't.
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@Khalednazari said:
Seems like I need to create more math questions for Dead By Daylight now.Maths with Orion, every Friday at 11:00am GMT
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👍 SOUNDS GREAT!Killigma said:@Khalednazari said:
Seems like I need to create more math questions for Dead By Daylight now.Maths with Orion, every Friday at 11:00am GMT
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@Killigma said:
@Khalednazari said:
Seems like I need to create more math questions for Dead By Daylight now.Maths with Orion, every Friday at 11:00am GMT
Orion has classes. I'm only at home today because I woke up wanting to throw up.
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Throw up your knowledge on us!Orion said:@Killigma said:
@Khalednazari said:
Seems like I need to create more math questions for Dead By Daylight now.Maths with Orion, every Friday at 11:00am GMT
Orion has classes. I'm only at home today because I woke up wanting to throw up.
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@Orion said:
@Killigma said:
@Khalednazari said:
Seems like I need to create more math questions for Dead By Daylight now.Maths with Orion, every Friday at 11:00am GMT
Orion has classes. I'm only at home today because I woke up wanting to throw up.
Yep, and now you have a class with all of us.
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Thank you so much.0
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Thanks for spreading the word, Orion.
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I'd love it, if you could weigh in on the cosmetic debate... please?
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So how do you calculate it when it’s multiple effects applying? Such as Sloppy Butcher and Dying Light.0
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@Orion answered it in this thread. https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/26150/math-question#latestModernFable said:So how do you calculate it when it’s multiple effects applying? Such as Sloppy Butcher and Dying Light.0 -
Okay, that’s what I thought.Khalednazari said:
@Orion answered it in this thread. https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/26150/math-question#latestModernFable said:So how do you calculate it when it’s multiple effects applying? Such as Sloppy Butcher and Dying Light.0 -
Orion is right about how the multiple negative effects stack. The secret in the sauce is that positive action speed modifiers are added together before being applied, whereas negative action speed modifiers are applied sequentially. Let's say you have Botany Knowledge (+33%) and Resilience (+9%), but you're Mangled (-20%) and using Self Care (-50%). Charges per second will be (1+0.33+0.9)*(1-0.2)*(1-0.5) = 0.568. Healing takes 16 charges, so it'll take 16 / 0.568 = 28.16 seconds to heal.
I think this comes across as confusing for most because they expect the percentages to be based on time, rather than speed. Descriptions could be a little clearer on that.
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Thank you. Yeah, would love some changes in the descriptions to clear this confusion for players who do not understand how it works.McLean said:Orion is right about how the multiple negative effects stack. The secret in the sauce is that positive action speed modifiers are added together before being applied, whereas negative action speed modifiers are applied sequentially. Let's say you have Botany Knowledge (+33%) and Resilience (+9%), but you're Mangled (-20%) and using Self Care (-50%). Charges per second will be (1+0.33+0.9)*(1-0.2)*(1-0.5) = 0.568. Healing takes 16 charges, so it'll take 16 / 0.568 = 28.16 seconds to heal.
I think this comes across as confusing for most because they expect the percentages to be based on time, rather than speed. Descriptions could be a little clearer on that.
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A dev commented in my thread - twice. I can die happy.
Yes, I'm a dev fanboy. Sue me.
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You wrote Resilience as .9 in you’re calculations instead of .09 fyi. You still used .09 when calculating, however.McLean said:Orion is right about how the multiple negative effects stack. The secret in the sauce is that positive action speed modifiers are added together before being applied, whereas negative action speed modifiers are applied sequentially. Let's say you have Botany Knowledge (+33%) and Resilience (+9%), but you're Mangled (-20%) and using Self Care (-50%). Charges per second will be (1+0.33+0.9)*(1-0.2)*(1-0.5) = 0.568. Healing takes 16 charges, so it'll take 16 / 0.568 = 28.16 seconds to heal.
I think this comes across as confusing for most because they expect the percentages to be based on time, rather than speed. Descriptions could be a little clearer on that.
Why are positive modifiers not applied the same way as negative ones? (I understand that if negative modifiers were done like the positive ones, you could end up with a 0 charge per second result.)0 -
@Kind_Lemon said:
Why are positive modifiers not applied the same way as negative ones? (I understand that if negative modifiers were done like the positive ones, you could end up with a 0 charge per second result.)It's probably because it's more intuitive to do it like that. That would be my guess.
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Seems some people still didn't get the message.
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LolOrion said:Seems some people still didn't get the message.
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Let me know if this isn't the place to ask but,
What happens when you have two negative speed modifiers that do not stack? i.e Sloppy Butcher & Thanatophobia. Which one would be applied first? And why?
Also, could you put the equation for speed modification in an unknown form? (Algebra, I have an extremely hard time deciphering equations like this when the numbers are already inputted. Me dumb.) If not that's totally cool, I'd do it myself but my head is getting confused with all these numbers
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@Brady said:
Let me know if this isn't the place to ask but,What happens when you have two negative speed modifiers that do not stack? i.e Sloppy Butcher & Thanatophobia. Which one would be applied first? And why?
Also, could you put the equation for speed modification in an unknown form? (Algebra, I have an extremely hard time deciphering equations like this when the numbers are already inputted. Me dumb.) If not that's totally cool, I'd do it myself but my head is getting confused with all these numbers
I assume the strongest debuff would be applied, whatever that may be. However, that's a programming question, and my answer is based on how I would do it.
The speed decrease is simply Π(1-xi), i = 1, ... , k; where x is the speed decrease, i is the index (in case there are many debuffs; each xi corresponds to a different debuff), and k is the total number of debuffs. The time increase is 1/Π(1-xi), i = 1, ... ,k. If you're not familiar with this notation, see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplication#Capital_Pi_notation
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Bump!
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Thats not how Oscars work ....
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My guess would be that its to prevent negative modifiers from exceeding -100%
For example Self Care -50%, Coulophobia is another -50%. If those 2 were added together before being applied, you would end up with not being able to heal at all.
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How does charge efficiency work then? Like, for example, what's happening when you run an Emergency Med-Kit (the green one) with Botany Knowledge?
Are there separate numbers for item charges and charge contributions?
Because with Emergency Med-Kit and Botany, you're contributing 1.83 c/s, but then would that mean that you're only using 1.17 c/s out of the Med-Kit?
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