consideration on slugging and camping, and why BHVR has not addressed them
So to start off, the twins as a killer have severe issues that the devs did not see coming in internal testing.
Someone has made a post explaining the issues with the twins in an in-depth manner much better than I ever could, read it if you want: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/210797/the-way-people-play-with-the-twins-proves-an-interesting-point#latest
for those who do not want to read it I'll summarize. The twins have thrown the spotlight on the issues of camping and slugging.
Now the devs have said before that they consider camping/tunneling/slugging to be valid tactics. But, they have implemented perks that act as band aid fixes for the abuse of those mechanics. DS for tunneling, BT for camping, and Unbreakable for slugging. It is worth mentioning that the only one of these that completely counters it's related issue is unbreakable. The devs also have somewhat recently brought up the point of how fun it is to go against something.
Those tactics (except camping) can make up for shortcomings in the match. Tunneling can keep survivor on a hook, thus requiring someone to get them off. Slugging is used to be able to apply massive slowdown by preventing multiple survivors from working on gens, while forcing a healthy survivor to pick them up. The main point is these tactics slow the game down to a point where the killer can win against coordinated teams.
So with all of that in consideration, why have the devs not addressed these issues? They are aware that fun is a factor in gameplay. But have not made Any attempts to make protections from those tactics in the base game. Despite many survivors complaining about how unfun they are.
At the same time, they have ignored the issue of match speed, something the 'unfun' tactics are used to address by players. That issue was to be resolved by the Early game slowdown mechanic, something that has not been mentioned for about a year, despite many voting for questions related to it in the QnA vote.
So why have those core issues not been addressed in the four years this game has been out?
Give your thoughts, sorry if this post comes off in a certain way. The intention was not to talk smack about the devs, but ask a legitimate question.
And please keep it civil in the comments
Comments
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They can't. It's not a thing that can happen without ruining the game in another way - extending the generator repair time. Yay, 12 hooks, how fun, each generator now takes 2.5 minutes!
Of course, they could always add an additional objective, but generator repairs are so ingrained into DbD that adding a second objective that isn't straight-up forced (and fully intergrated with its own counter and giant glaring noise telling people that there are no more in the area) has failed in the past. Looking at you, Ruin/Undying. Which means they would have to pretty much recreate the survivors objective from scratch. Which I don't think will happen when the game is in a relatively passable state (aka not every killer is a sweaty deathmurder4personslugat5gens).
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The simple answer would be that they can't churn out 4 new killer powers a year if they made killers fun. Expect to see more killers with powers centered around camping, tunneling, and slugging in the future.
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Uh... U answered your own question. They have addressed them. Unless you mean something else, like address them in terms of balancing.
There are a lot of perks and even killers made to deal with certain aspects of the game. It doesn't mean the devs are saying that those aspects are bad for the game or unbalanced. U have self heal in case some1 is tired of having to look for other survivors to heal them. Killers have undying to use if they feel that totems disappear too quickly. Survivors have spine chill to help them keep an eye out for the killer. Killer's have BBQ to help them keep up the pressure and snowball.
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Yeah, I mean with balancing.
But seriously, these issues have been with the game for a while. Why has nothing substantial been done about it? Like I said, even the band aid perks (except unbreakable) don't fully counter the 'unfun' tactics.
Plus even the whole gen speed issue is "fixed" by slowdown perks. But even those can be countered in some way. For thanatophobia you just heal, ruin can be broken in the first 30 seconds. Dying light can be countered by playing stealthy.
There are others I'm missing but I'm sure you can see my point.
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So whats your solution? Infinite unbreakable and multi use ds base kit..? That would shatter the balance of dead by daylight completely
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I haven't suggested any solutions, nor am I saying that they need infinite uses.
What I'm saying is the devs need to address match speed and unfun tactics. The primary reason killers use the listed tactics is because they slow the match down, Often at the cost of the survivors fun.
And to be fair infinite use DS as a base game mechanic wouldn't be bad if it had deactivation conditions, such as healing or repairing. But infinite use unbreakable is definitely too much.
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They can’t truly “fix” these issues unless they rebuild the basic gameplay loop from the ground up, and doing that would probably kill the game.
People complain about DBD and its gameplay mechanics but we all keep playing it. So why would they try to fix something that clearly isn’t that broken?
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You're missing the point, It's not that those tactics are broken. It's the fact that they are used to compensate for unbalanced match speed, at the detriment of the survivors fun.
The devs were supposed to address match speed with the early game slowdown mechanic. Which would have hopefully removed the reasons to use those tactics.
But yeah, addressing a core issue of the game that has been there since launch is just too much for then I guess. Makes sense considering how much they screwed this patch up.
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I didn’t say those tactics were broken. I was referring to the proverb, “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” - the game clearly isn’t broken since people can’t stop playing it, so why try to fix something that works?
I mean, you’re saying they should try to address the way people play the game to improve survivor fun but there are tons of survivors. There are so many people playing survivor that queue times are awful, in fact. It’s not like survivors are leaving the game in droves. Despite people saying that X or Y is unfun, they continue to play this game every day.
Do you have any suggestions for ways the devs could address camping/tunnelling/slugging/etc. that wouldn’t heavily penalise killers, but also wouldn’t involve having to rework the game? I can’t think of any. And I think reworking the game loop would kill the game so they’re never gonna do it.
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It wouldn't drastically rework the overall gameplay loop of the game. But it would require work on their end.
Making DS a base game mechanic that comes with deactivation conditions like healing, repairing, or another survivor being hooked. Make it so if a killer is within a certain radius of the hook for an extended period the timer would pause, thus making sure no value is gained from camping.
Slugging could be addressed indirectly by adding the early game slowdown mechanic. Which we're unsure what the devs have planned, but going off of it's name it would slow the match down in some way. Removing the need to tunnel or slug, camping is more of a pettiness issue than a valid tactic.
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But you're missing something. If match times were extended to some degree, then killers would have the time to loop without having to worry about generators popping left and right.
The reason those tactics are used is to slow the game down. So it stands to reason that if the game was already slowed down in some way, there would be no reason to tunnel or slug.
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Unfortunately, in the current state of the game, many matches require these tactics if a killers wishes to compete. If survivors are efficient on gens, it simply isn't realistic to expect 12 hooks every game. Therefore, killers take opportunities to apply pressure to survivors, and as you say, these tactics are often unfun as they don't allow the survivors to interact with the game nearly as much. The only interactive slowdown I can really think of that is currently in the game is pig's jigsaw boxes, which at least allow you to run around the map and try your luck at the boxes (even though we all know it's gonna be the fourth one regardless). While this can still lead to "scummy" play such as the pig tunneling the person with the trap (very inefficient tactic), at least its a step above being slugged on the group or stuck on the hook. I don't really know what they could do in terms of a solution to this, but they need to be careful in doing so if they do, because balance changes of this size and significance have the potential to be incredibly harmful to the game's health.
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They were talking about the early game slowdown mechanic about a year ago. I'm not sure what happened to it, but it would hopefully address the reasons killers have to use those tactics.
Do you think BHVR could pull that off? A lot of people are saying that balancing these issues would kill the game.
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Ok so, first of all the current bugs need to be addressed because at least three old killers are right now useless: Hillbilly cause chainsaw overheats when breaking a pallot, bubba suffers same fatigue no matter how many charges he used and then my favourite legion running same speed when using his power, really allows you to chain you attack you know on like one survivor. Second thing addressing the slugging tactic: use unbreakable really helps you know 2 unbreakble per team and you should be fine if you are solo survivor though you have to depend on the team but guess what this was a horror game at some point and in order to survive you have to survive not just breeze trough the game, and sometimes you will die. Camping is an interesting topic i as killer main do not support it unless you need to get that one kill when exit gates are powered. When the gens are done killer can do what he wants and i do not blame him. And if you do not like what i wrote because its not fun i have to say to you one thing. If you want to have all the fun as survivor than dont advocate for ballance because i am not having fun when i play the killer that is for sure. And i forgot the tunneling issue, if you play with friends and brought object of obsession dont complain as you are the key to the victory and the killer knows it and has to deal with it asap, especially if its trapper or hag.
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Look dude, I'm sorry but could you please break that up into paragraphs?
I'll make an actual response when that's easier to read.
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But if camping, tunnelling and slugging are totally removed as options for killers, match times would need to be extended. An early game slowdown wouldn’t be enough to allow killers to 12 hook every game. So how do you do it? Make gens take longer? Survivors would complain that it’s boring. Add another objective? More M1 holding, boring.
Pausing the hook timer if the killer is within a certain radius would just enable survivors to loop around hooks with impunity so that’s not a good suggestion IMO.
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Ok so, first of all the current bugs need to be addressed because at least three old killers are right now useless: Hillbilly cause chainsaw overheats when breaking a pallot, bubba suffers same fatigue no matter how many charges he used and then my favourite legion running same speed when using his power, really allows you to chain you attack you know on like one survivor.
Second thing addressing the slugging tactic: use unbreakable really helps you know 2 unbreakble per team and you should be fine if you are solo survivor though you have to depend on the team but guess what this was a horror game at some point and in order to survive you have to survive not just breeze trough the game, and sometimes you will die.
Camping is an interesting topic i as killer main do not support it unless you need to get that one kill when exit gates are powered. When the gens are done killer can do what he wants and i do not blame him.
And if you do not like what i wrote because its not fun i have to say to you one thing. If you want to have all the fun as survivor than dont advocate for ballance because i am not having fun when i play the killer that is for sure.
And i forgot the tunneling issue, if you play with friends and brought object of obsession dont complain as you are the key to the victory and the killer knows it and has to deal with it asap, especially if its trapper or hag.
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Forgot to quote, this the the paragraph format OP Wanted
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Also, its almost like the killer’s job is to kill. If you dont like being slugged, bring no mither and unbreakable. A lot of thing can’t be handed to you also. You need to have some skill in this game to compete. You have the perks, but you also need some skill. If you don’t like getting tunneled, bring DS. Killers have things they can do to help them win, and these are solid tactics.
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The early game slowdown mechanic would be the thing to extend the match. The early game is where so many killers are weak, because they lack essential pressure until they get into a chase.
It would be up to the devs to make something more fun than holding m1, frankly I'm surprised they haven't made generators more interactive somehow.
But as far as the hook camping thing goes. That could be a condition for the hook timer reactivating.
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Ok so, first of all the current bugs need to be addressed because at least three old killers are right now useless: Hillbilly cause chainsaw overheats when breaking a pallot, bubba suffers same fatigue no matter how many charges he used and then my favourite legion running same speed when using his power, really allows you to chain you attack you know on like one survivor.
Second thing addressing the slugging tactic: use unbreakable really helps you know 2 unbreakble per team and you should be fine if you are solo survivor though you have to depend on the team but guess what this was a horror game at some point and in order to survive you have to survive not just breeze trough the game, and sometimes you will die.
Camping is an interesting topic i as killer main do not support it unless you need to get that one kill when exit gates are powered. When the gens are done killer can do what he wants and i do not blame him. And if you do not like what i wrote because its not fun i have to say to you one thing.
If you want to have all the fun as survivor than dont advocate for ballance because i am not having fun when i play the killer that is for sure. And i forgot the tunneling issue, if you play with friends and brought object of obsession dont complain as you are the key to the victory and the killer knows it and has to deal with it asap, especially if its trapper or hag.
There you go.
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My bad did not see this.
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You have answered your OWN question. Let me break it down for you. These tactics have been four years ongoing (always indicated as valid). The game has only grown in size and popularity. Rather than bringing down the game, and ruining its fun (as you seem to infer) the game works pretty darn well. People (most people anyway) like a challenge. There are plenty of games out there where you are not playing PvP and they are rigged entirely in your favor. If this one isn't cutting the mustard for you, seek them out.
Why haven't they addressed these things? It is because they are not broken. They are not a problem. The vocal minority that is the never ending whine and moan here is nothing compared to the vast nameless faces whom we will never see post anything here or put anything up on social media. In short, the game is working out fine so far. They take a slow, meditative approach which honors the notion "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." In short, they aren't going to tinker with something that isn't really a problem, and risk creating ACTUAL problems.
I know it sounds cold and all that, but they don't put much stock by the crying off on this Forum. I don't blame them. They have their own metrics they follow, based on statistics and whatever bias the DEV harbor themselves. Our individual experiences aren't on their mind; they are interested in the collective. And let me repeat, this Forum is NOT the collective. That is self delusion. I was tickled to watch the Q&A and see that one of the guys looks exactly like the bald Dwight. It makes me wonder how many of the other cosmetics are actually based on people we don't see behind the scenes over there. Perhaps some of you unhappy types can vent your frustrations killing their avatars over and over.
I'm not trying to trigger anyone with this post. I'm trying to be pragmatic and give some realistic perspective. Tunneling, Slugging, Camping, and the Mori are all part of the game. It wouldn't be an understatement to say that they are integral parts of the game. Changes to them must be very careful and very slow or the whole apple cart gets upended. The DEV understand that better than we do because their interaction with it isn't personal, it isn't colored by having just been tunneled, slugged, camped, and then given a Mori. In short, our own bias and frustration with anecdotal events clouds our judgement. They are tinkering with the goose that laid the golden egg, and cannot risk mistakes.
So, in closing (I've already gone on way too long), I also feel a twinge when I get tunneled. I don't enjoy being slugged for long periods of time (well it is really only a minute or two that FEELS like a long time), nor do I like being camped, and certainly don't want to catch the Mori. However, I will continue to GLADLY endure these things because the game would be more empty and hollow without them. I'm older than most of you. I played Pong when it first came out. I played Death Race 2000 which was basically Pong with a steering wheel where you ran down stick figure people. I was there when Wizard of War made its debut, and ruled the Arcade with PacMan, Donkey Kong, and all the rest. I was there for all the Fighting games, the rise the console, and up until now. Nobody wants to go back to PacMan. Bots that can only loop you in predictable patterns (which you can memorize) are not a challenge. We live in a video game age where we fight/hunt the ultimate game, i.e. sentient, cunning, and sometimes underhanded Players. If you take away their options, you are left with the Ghosts from PacMan.
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All i can say is respect.
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Yes, it is the killers job to kill, But this is a game. It needs to be fun on both ends.
I'm not complaining about any one side in particular. But perks should not be used to compensate for unfun tactics that should have been addressed years ago.
I also mention that within the current meta the killers have to use those tactics to have a chance against coordinated teams. Yes they are solid tactics but they are used to the detriment of the survivors fun.
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Ok well then dont bring DS because you should have been dead on hook and now you are free. When you say its a game btw you must remember that this is competitive game. If it was not than we might as well not hold tournaments and care too much about it in general.
Also as said before if killer does not use those tactics than he might as well stand in one place and let everyone go.
Still waiting for the response btw.
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I can respect the fact that you kept your comment respectful.
But you admit yourself that you would rather not be caught on the wrong end of a mori, Tunnel, or camping killer. You say you'd endure it, but that is more up to individual patience than anything else.
When you check the forums you'll often see a post complaining about camping, tunneling, and slugging. If these things have been consistently complained about, then doesn't it seem like it would need to be addressed in some way?
Perks hardly cover for unbalanced gameplay. But, Neither should they cover for unfun tactics.
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It’s almost like 60 seconds of invincibility, a free “get off the ground free card”, not going down after being hit after being unhooked, etc. Point is, both sides have annoying things. You have to counter those things with skill
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Yes I know, other people keep commenting, I'll get to you soon.
As I keep saying, those tactics have their place in the current meta. The main point of the post was to ask why the devs have not addressed the issue of match time ( the short time of which largely contributes to those tactics) , and the issues of those tactics.
Even if match time is addressed there will always be those who use those tactics, even if they don't have to. So there should be base game protection from those unfun tactics.
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Yes, if the devs addressed the things I'm talking about, of course they would have to address the perks that were the band aid fixes for those issues.
But tell me, how do i skillfully avoid a camping, tunneling, or slugging killer? I'm not part of the top 1% who can run a killer without being downed, I am an average player. I will eventually be caught, but I shouldn't have to be as good as someone like Otzdarva just to avoid being caught up in unfun tactics.
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But that is the whole point of meta perks. They give you the best edge you get against killer/ survivor. That is where fun is lost and the competition takes place. And when you lose you find million things to blame. I would be fine with DS and hell i would be fine with old DS.
The problem is that as a killer I know that those five seconds of stun and then maybe 1 more minute of chase after the ds will cost me 2 if not 3 gens if people know what they are doing and I cannot afford to lose that time.
That is where resentment grows. It also grows when I see devs release a raw patch, with bugs. I strated out playing this game as a suv and i did enjoy it until ranks 8-6 where i started to get slugged and camped. I was too outraged but now i see why it happens. If 3 survivors escape and one dies survivors think it is a loss. Killer thinks the same thing. No-one wins. Toxicity buble bursts. We are arguing on forums.
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The only reason those perks are meta in the first place is because they cover for those tactics.
You'll rarely have a game where someone doesn't run DS to prevent themselves from getting tunneled. Or doesn't run unbreakable with DS so they can get out scott free from both tunneling and slugging.
On the killer end ruin is meta because it indirectly slows down the match by removing progression from the gens.
The point is, the meta perks are meta because they cover for unbalanced, and unfun tactics and mechanics.
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This is a fundamental misunderstanding of games. The fun of a game is in the PLAYING of it, i.e. the challenge, the conflict, the pitting yourself against something hard and hopefully getting better. Games, from an evolutionary standpoint, evolved to hone the skills a creature will use to survive. That is why kittens play by hunting and pouncing each other, little goats play smashing horns or climbing things, and so on. Are they having fun? Absolutely. They will keep playing whether they win or lose.
Fun isn't provided by ANY game. You have to bring it with you. You get out of games what you put into them. That is a cold, hard truth that takes most people a lifetime to understand. Many don't figure it out until they are so old that they no longer have the capacity to play as many games as the would like. I'm providing you this information with the understanding that you will refuse to listen. I hope to be wrong, because you will profit kingdoms untold if you do. I'm just pragmatic about it; most people considering being taught something by someone else to have lost an argument, rather than having won wisdom.
If you aren't having fun playing this game, find one that is more to your liking. The health of this game indicates that overall, plenty of people are having fun. What is the difference between them and you? They also encounter (everyone does) tunneling, slugging, camping, and the Mori. Why is it when me and my friends play we aren't triggered into endless tirades of self pity. Why aren't we shoveling grief on other people. We sound like a Football game and will even cheer when downed when we see a wicked good play. My suggestion is that we play for love of the game, not for some weird personal fetish or make-believe power.
When you go into a game and understand its parameters and set no false expectations on yourself (or others) you will have more fun. The game is either fun for you or it isn't. If it isn't, why the heck are you still here? I always doubt the veracity of people making these posts because the logic doesn't track. With the thousands upon thousands of games out there, why waste your time playing one you seem not to like? Why waste even more time coming here to bellyache about it? It doesn't make sense, unless I accept that you are one of those people who enjoys bellyaching about things, and use the internet (and Forums like these) to feel potent and imagine you matter. I can't claim to be that different from you. I'm posting here too. I like to flatter myself that my intentions are different. I do play for love of the game, but why do I post here? I don't have to even be aware of your existence to keep enjoying the game. So we share some flaws.
I really want to help you. The game isn't what is wrong. It is you. You are looking at things backwards:
An old tree obscured my view.
It was sick, it was twisted,
Its leaves mottled, an unhealthy hue.
So I waited for it to die,
But it held on, day in and by and by
So I took an ax to its bough
A fallow field did I plow.
Now I stare at an unfettered view.
It is wide, it is empty.
Why does if feel older than new?
It wasn't sick, that old tree.
I know that now, it was only me.
Post edited by Moundshroud on2 -
There can be no conflict with which to have fun with if the survivor isn't able to engage the game because of those tactics.
When a killer slugs, the downed survivor is made to sit there while not being able to do anything other than recover. When being tunneled there is some engagement, but only in the chase aspect of the game. Where they will be downed, then slung back on the hook. Camping prevents survivors from making an unhook that wouldn't result in the rescuer being put on the hook and camped.
I admit, I've been using the wrong metric to describe those tactics. fun is subjective, but part of having fun with dead by daylight is being able to engage in the game itself. Which those tactics can prevent.
And please stay on topic, poems and evolution have nothing to do with dead by daylight.
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But getting into the first chase isn’t enough. If you go through the chase, hook, chase, hook cycle for the entire game without being able to hook anyone back to back or slug you will lose as killer, even if you have a good start to the match. The early game is important but asserting lots of pressure on multiple survivors is the ONLY way a killer can win, unless the survivors pressure themselves and don’t do gens.
And reworking the gens would be that change to the base game mechanics I was talking about. Who’s the say they’d make something better? Maybe people find gens boring but the simplicity is necessary and what makes the game successful? If you make the survivor objective more interesting but more difficult or stressful, who’s to say that wouldn’t drive people away from the game?
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Yes, but the whole chase hook, chase, hook, cat and mouse game is up to the survivors and killers skill.
If you can't catch a survivor, it could either be they outplayed you in many ways, or you just got crappy map RNG. If you find yourself getting downed constantly as survivor it could also be those issues.
One topic i would like to discuss is BHVR themselves. Through all of the reworks and balances this game has gone throough, people have questioned their ability to pull it off without ruining the game somehow. Obviously it hasn't happened yet, otherwise everyone would have abandoned ship by now.
But testing new mechanics is exactly what the PTB is for. If it is unanimously decided by the community that new mechanics interfere with the game too much. They will be worked on to suit the gameplay more. Or the idea is outright scrapped.
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This
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I did say that you would refuse to listen. I'm not surprised the poem and the comments on the nature of play from an evolutionary standpoint have gone over your head. It suffices to say that poem has everything to do with our conversation and the topic at hand. I have faith you and at some point you will figure that out. I hope it is sooner than later though. We will set that part aside for now, until you choose to revisit it with me again someday.
You are getting another point I was making, however, and have now admitted (or remembered) that fun is subjective. So, going back to my original points, if the game is healthy, growing, and popular we must infer that people are having fun. That makes more sense than assuming that people flock to games which are unfun in droves right? I think we can assume that if the game is still here after four years (and those tactics are still here and valid after four years) that the DEV are doing something right.
That means that your finding certain things to be NOT fun is a subjective judgement, and you may very well be in the minority. Lots of people complaining here (on the Forum) isn't really LOTS of people. Forums are like holes in the ground; dark water pools and builds up in them. The problem with Forum is best illustrated by having two types of polls to gather public opinion. See below:
Poll-1: Random Gather
This type of poll asks questions of a random people on the street corner. It is not effort on their part, nor were they expecting to take part.
Poll-2: Call/Write In
This type of poll invites people to call in or post their opinions. This takes effort and time, and people have to be motivated.
*The sad truth of the matter is that content, happy people rarely feel the need or take the time to call in or write in to say nice things. People who are angry or unhappy feel driven to vent. This skews Poll-2 violently to the negative. So it is only natural that on this Forum most of the things you see are whines and bile. But all the people who post here (who have ever posted here) are but a tiny minority compared to the total number of players. Do you see my point? If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If people were not having fun, they would not continue playing. They would vote with their wallets. So you and I don't matter statistically. We are outliers, people who need to vent. You vent about things you don't like in the game, and I vent about people wasting time not playing the game. :)
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Lets talk about it. I will take the post by Moundshroud and expand on what i think of the game as. Kittens playing with each other, no-one dies there obviously. It is fun for them obviously because they are PLAYING. Nothing wrong with that. Now lets take it up a level. Lion chasing his prey. Lion gets the prey-it dies, he does not-it lives. This is COMPETITION now. A hunt if you will.
Now think of those animals as ranks. Ranks 20 are fun, i cannot lie. But if you are going up the ranks, you are going on a hunt, you are the killer hunting or surv being hunted. You escape or you die. You win or lose, little fun in that and i agree that it causes more frustration as you go up till red ranks where it peaks.
If you want the game to be fun than dont rise up the ranks and use your skills and knowledge to bully low rank killers. But hold on, thats no fun for the killer and i dont support bullying baby killers as that would deplete the player base.
Plus if one side has fun, it is at expence of the other. I myself enjoy pulling a 360 to then fast vault to break the chase. Escape with killer breating down my neck. Be a solo survivor to escape through the hatch. It is fun. And the adrenaline you get irl when in chase and killer barely misses you. It is a blast overall.
But when you play the killer reverse is applied to you. You are in a chase, you see 2 engine popping while all you got is one hit. Around when you get a hook 3rd gen pops. You understand at that moment that all you can get is around 2k. You are not happy, and not having fun. You resort to the strats you know will give you at least one kill. And around that time you bring the NOED into your build.
If we talk about strats then, I will tell you the game intended strat then. Patrol, chase, take down one, hook, repeat TWELVE times. Does this seem realistic in a red rank game. If yes well then i wonder what ranks am i playing with.
Before there were infinites, way bigger amount of pallots and etc. and that has gotten better, but i also remember things such as blinding killer on pick up animation and no matter the timing they will drop the surv. For those reasons alone I do not trust the BHVR team.
See the problem is fundamentally both sides want the win from my perspective playing both sides I can say that game is leaned to survivor side. Time is not on the side of the killer that is why Hex:Ruin is meta perk for killer. It slows down the tempo.
I look at the game from the competitive perspective. Too many times have I seen the t-bags, too many times have I went against flashlight clickers only to outplay them. Do i camp them, no. Neither do i bring a mori, not ireddesnt one anyways.
As Ancestor said:"You cannot learn a thing, you think, you know"
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I think it's interesting, because without bashing them too much, I am dissapointed by BHVR in the past few months. That said, I think that endgame collapse is quite a fun and engaging feature, so adding something which allows for the same kind of engagement at the start of the match would be a really good edition. I do want to add that this feature could very easily favor killer a ton, so they would have to be careful with implementing it.
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Perhsps but even with restrictions a base mechanic that powerful would be a tad unfair to just give
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You should know by now that n o b o d y cares about survivors having fun. I'm getting jaded to a point that I've started to not care either because, honestly, what's the point?
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Would it help to get a Bloodpoint compensation amount for survivors who are camped ,tunneled, mori'd or slugged (for a certain amount of time)? It's not the complete solution but it may help somewhat.
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Solid relatively easy fix to implement the gen ignition period. This ideas been put forward multiple times but why not just have a 30 second or 1 min gen start up period no progression can be done. Help trap killers set up opening more trap killer design space. Low mobility killers can no longer lose a gen at the start of the game.
Finally a side objective perhaps a door lever gen piece can be added that can be retrieved and used as an objectives for the end game that can be picked up from the start.
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Honestly, that would be better than the ZERO survivors get while being forced to look at the ground for four minutes til death.
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True, but it would be given at the same time as the early game slowdown mechanic.
Plus with the suggested deactivation mechanics you'd really have to go out of your way to tunnel somebody for it to be activated.
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Well here then lies the issue for me..my biggest beef with current ds..end game invincibility..and it would just be handed out to everyone like a free 5th perk..
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So what you're saying is you'd be upset that you can't tunnel even though it would no longer be required for pressure?
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What I'm saying is this will screw over the killer..the best they can do with victor is give him a tr and frankly that's silly , and this would make them weaker .not stronger
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What does victor have to do with this discussion?
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