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consideration on slugging and camping, and why BHVR has not addressed them
Comments
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You mentioned camping and tunneling, victor is the best at that
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I say this as someone who plays way more Survivor than Killer.
There is NOTHING wrong with slugging. If the killer is good enough at chases to down multiple people fast enough, good for them. Well played.
There should be a bigger penalty for camping but at the same time, if there was then wouldnt the survivor strat become collapse on hook so killer gets penalized?
And idk how to enforce tunneling. When I do play killer, soooo often I see the unhook and head back that direction and the person unhooked runs out right in front of me. Am I tunneling or are they just bad?
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Camping, tunneling and slugging can be a valid tactic, allow me to explain.
To set the scene, 1 survivor is dead, one is struggling on hook and two are alive and full health. 3 gens remaining until the end game begins. When I hooked the survivor, my tinkerer went off twice, across the map, and in a short amount of time. My ruin had been cleansed, and I had no other gen regression perks.
What is the correct play here? Going for one of the gens would result in the gen being finished and the hooked survivor being saved, and the pressured gen would be nearly completed. Trying to save both gens would be impossible. Or I can camp and ensure that a player dies in exchange for the 2 gens. The two remaining survivors could have abandoned their gens to attempt to take aggro and save their comrade before they were in dire straits, but they greeded for the gens. (This is a story from an actual match, a few days ago)
Slugging is a little different, but in the same thought. Imagine having a hooked survivor, and you intercept and down their would be savior. Do you pick up the survivor, giving the other 2 a chance to rescue the hooked one, or do you leave them slugged in search of the others to keep up the pressure? What about a dangerous unhook? If you smack the unhooked 1 of 2 cases will play out, they have BT and run away, or they are now on the ground with a potential DS and accusations of tunneling. If you slug here, you maintain the pressure of having one player incapacitated as you now pursue the unhooker.
Tunneling, intentionally tunneling one survivor is pretty bad, but there are cases where it might be needed. For example I tunnel Object of Obsession users out of the game, that perk, in the hands of a SWF, gives too much information to the whole team. So I remove it from play. However, you might want to tunnel a player that is good at stealth to remove the hurdle of having to find them again. Or you might want to eliminate a player that you feel is too skilled at looping. Or you're at 2 gens and you need a survivor dead, if you want to have a chance at winning this trial.
The real issue is that people choose to rely on one of these as the basis of their gameplay. But how do you fix people abusing mechanics of the game without gutting the mechanic and ruining it for the rest of the players. Playing Killer at its core, is a time management game. You need to be efficient, and you need to make the survivors spend their time not working on generators, and make the generators take as long as possible to complete. Each of these tactics is a method to force time to be wasted. But they are not efficient, (or fun), but sometimes you have to do it, to make the game work.
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Yeah, but we shouldn't sometimes be forced to spoil someone else's game just to win.
Whenever I've had to tunnel I always feel pretty bad about it. Plus I expect messages coming my way after the game. Surprisingly doesn't happen that often.
But to me those tactics are only worthwhile in the current time crunch meta. If our matches were more drawn out, then we wouldn't have to resort to them to create pressure. Since we would have ample time to create it without spoiling someone else's match.
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Well i would love to hear a proposition that ensures that both killer and survivor can feel safe about the game not going totally wrong for them, so far no response btw.
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I got school, can't respond all the time, I'll make one later.
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I'm honestly glad you mentioned the camping and tunneling. Tunneling when used tacitly makes sense though its unfun for the victim. There needs to be some disadvantage for the killer who obsessively tunnels and camps same victims. I got chased a whole match by a demo who couldn't catch me until all gens were completed. Although i was quite good as a goat, it was really annoying to be tunneled and then the same as soon as i was rescued. It's annoying that they refuse to do anything against killers that hardcore camp and then tunnel once a BT rescue takes place. Instead they have this ridiculous penalty to appease those whining because people DC because they hardcore camp or tunnel them. No-one wants to deal with that, it's simply not fun. I understand DC in other situations but concerning camping and tunneling is my argument.
Now we have a new killer who only camps and slugs. She releases Victor while idle near the hook and then used Victor to camp so he can pounce as soon as they are rescued. If he pounces the rescuer them they just resume Charlotte and chase the unhooked survivor who has had barely any time to make distance. Or they camp the downed survivor so they can pounce a healer Happened several times to me and what I observed to others. It's completely ridiculous that Victor can continue to pounce survivors after downing an injured survivor. It's the equivalent to a killer not having any sucessful hit cool down. If he hits one then he should be forced to recall Or remain idle. I haven't played the twins yet but there doesn't appear to be any type of cool down or range penalties
Another way ######### is broken and this needs changed. Also its very annoying how a map that was already overplayed is now having its encounter rate even higher due to graphic design. Last few days I haven't played Ormond once and every single match is the junkyard. It's just really annoying and the reason why I have started not liking this game awhile ago and playing nee games. This is gonna be many people or new people will just leave sooner rather than later.
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Camping/Tunnelling/Early Aggressive slugging are easy strategies used by sub-par killer players, or killers that royally screwed up.
The Majority of killer players in this game aren't nearly as good as they think they are, as such making killers that thrive in these practices would please most people. Pyramid Head made tunnelling even more viable. The Twins made Camping and aggressive slugging (more so than even Oni) even more viable. Surprisingly, Blight is the anti-thesis of these lazy strategies. Must've been a slip-up.
Just learn to grief these killers. Hold the game hostage. Form a team and make their lives miserable. They won't hesitate to send you back to 10 minute queues after 1 minute of gameplay and 5 minutes of slugging/camping. Return the favour. It's likely unfun for them since they get nothing, but amusing to you because you're ganging up on the killer to ruin their spree. It's a valid strategy too, since in the end, you're playing on the killer's patience. Just don't do this to those who try to make the game fun and challenging for all, and even less to struggling killers who are trying but aren't very good. It goes from retaliation to just bullying.
EDIT: This applies to killers getting bullied too, just retaliate with aggressive camping/tunnelling/slugging. If the opposition wants to have an easy game, then take the fun away from it before they get their victory.
EDIT 2: Rescinding my encouragement for toxic behaviour. While I believe being a massive jerk to other massive jerks is fair play, some things could be ban worthy and for good reason. Just don't let yourselves be victims, guys. On both sides.
Post edited by DeliciousFood on0 -
Look, I'm gonna be real with you, Attitudes like that are what perpetuate toxicity in this community.
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The big thing that I hate about camping/tunneling (I don't mind slugging as much unless you're leaving the guy on the ground for the full 4 minutes because you want the 4k, which is another topic entirely) is that instead of implementing baseline mechanics to deter unfun gameplay, the developers have implemented deterrence to these gameplay styles in the form of insurance perks -- which you bring because you don't want to be tunneled or don't want your teammates to be tunneled. And the killer just has to play around it assuming you have it.
It just really stifles build diversity when I have to bring DS and BT every game and hope my teammates brought them or else there's the risk of the killer just running down the unhooked person or smacking them straight away off hook. And if you're playing with randoms you really can't rely on them to punish the killer for wasting their time on one guy all game by doing gens.
Anyway that's my brain dump. I've been tunneled a few too many times in the red ranks to not run DS every game -- and have also escaped and wasted tons of the killers time that I wouldn't have otherwise without it because they just wanted to run me down off hook.
TL;DR I hate that I have to bring insurance perks to deter and punish scummy and unfun playstyles as survivor instead of them just being built in mechanics.
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What truly perpetuates toxicity in this game is the fact that a lot of fun to be had is contingent on the other side's decisions. And oddly enough, the most unpleasant strategies tend to be the most efficient ones. Survivors decide to all bring BNP's or harass the killer in unbelievably safe areas. Killers ceaselessly camping one guy or slugging with 5 gens left. Both viable strategies, but extremely unpleasant. Perhaps if these strategies were be made far less viable, then the grievances on each side would cool off.
There'd still be toxicity, don't get me wrong, but there'd be less.
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Go watch the balance dev on twitch. Realize how futile your request is.
He, himself, camps and tunnels off the hook pretty much constantly.
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Exactly the point I'm trying to make.
Definitely put it into better words than I did.
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Really? I realize the devs aren't required to be good at the game, but still...
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I honestly think that a change to slugging could be:
Survivors in the Dying state recover faster the more generators there are remaining in the trial. Eg 5 gens left to repair equals 200% recovery speed; 4 gent left equals 150% revovery speed; 3-0 remaining equals the current normal base recovery speed. This at least makes it easier for survivors to reset and tip the momentum scales vs 4-man slug players...the 3rd nipples on the body of DBD.
And for camping:
The killer loses at least 50% of bp gained in all categories from that hook (eg 600bp for the 2 hits on that survivor are halved etc etc) when they remain in at least 32m of a hooked survivor while no other survivor is also in that range. The points are still lost if they keep exiting and reentering the range for longer than 10 seconds. The bp deduction timer does not start until 5 seconds after the hook animation has finished.
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They are strong valid tactics that make you reevaluate how your approaching the match, especially against strong loopers trying to gain attention and waste the killer's time. While tough on solo players, I don't see any negative to gameplay. You won't complain about being slugged if your better at stealth and looping.
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What is the problem with making gens take longer to repair? I mean why do killers need those tactics? to buy time
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Slugging : @Onyx_Blue's proposition is great. Some tweaks might be needed but it's a great idea.
Camping : Either generators repair speed is 200%, either the progression bar to P2 is stucked if no survivor is around.
To slow down the game : generators can't work without fuel. You need to find a gas can on the map to fuel the gen before being able to repair it. Then something appears on the generator (a visual hint) to let the other survivors know that the gen has been fueled and can be repaired. This woul drastically slow down the game, especially if there is like 8 gas cans only on the map, somewhat hidden like totems : 5 gas cans at start and then every time you use one, a new one spawn till a maximum of 8 in total.
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Devs don't give a flying ######### about issues like this, they just care about releasing characters and content that they can get money from, like that. they can milk that sweet sweet currency.
So they will always tweak certain things and put little band-aids to cover faults in the game balance
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For the record, you have just advocated several behaviors that draw a ban. Doing so, can (and probably will) get you a warning from the Moderators.
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You're right, spoke out of frustration, I'll rescind it.
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Do gens. Thats your counter.
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Nah just like "Gen Rushing" is part of the objective concept and isn't a real thing this concept is vise versa with FaceCamping and Slugging because only "SuRvIvOrS" cry about the concept of Slugging as "KiLlErs" does with Gen Rushing.
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