Decisive is super overrated
I haven’t run Decisive consistently since the Silent Hill chapter at red ranks and I haven’t missed it.
Decisive only really gets used most of the time at this point when you’re playing reckless and trying to force it. And once that becomes your default playstyle, you mistakenly think the perk is a necessity. Kind of like Killers with Shadowborn/BBQ addiction. Or Survivors with exhaustion perk reliance.
Also, Blood Pact is lowkey my favorite perk in the game and I run it all the time. So no, I don’t have games where there’s no Obsession; the Killer always has to respect Decisive even if no one is running it. The threat of Decisive and the way it effects the Killer has to play around it is honestly more useful than the actually running DS in most cases.
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No, Decisive prevents tunnelling (or heavily reduces it), basically giving 4 man SWFs a second life as you cant 12 hook a good 4 man.
Your real only choice is getting someone out of the game ASAP, which decisive screws over.
The ability to abuse it is just another added effect to its design.
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I never used it since I got the Halloween DLC.
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Depends on the killer.
Personally, DS has never hindered me that much, even when I'm not playing nurse.
But then I guess I don't tunnel. The only time it's really screwed me over and is endgates.
Watching a survivor run out those endgates after they just got rush rescued and you blinked in front of them is a killer.
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I don't think it's overrated as it's extremely powerful anti momentum perk that also helps with the tunneling issue but it's definetly not needed as many claim it is.
I've never really used it in more then handful of games for some synergy builds and even when so many games don't even have the obsession, killers hardly truly tunnel anyone.
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Tbf if you go down again within 60 seconds against any other killer but Spirit and Nurse you maybe have some things to improve on
"but I get farmed by my team8" fair argument otherwise time to learn some looping :p
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Even if you're not running it, you're still benefitting due to its existence (as long as there is an obsession).
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The only time I used it was when I had to get my Laurie adept. I dont like it, it feels cheap.
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actually no, it's 60 seconds god mode, prevents tunneling and can used offensively by survivors when there's no tunneling at all to steal free momentum to the killer.
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It feels cheap, but tunneling / camping feels fair? Please explain.
Sorry to disappoint you OP but the fact DS affects games without being present already speaks it for itself, DS is in fact one of , if not the best perk in the game.
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Yeah it is very situational, and with the BT, UB, DS build you may basically be playing perkless until the time when you actually get to use these perks.
But when you do, it can keep you in the game and prevent you from getting straight tunneled.
So in 1 sense they are crutches, but they make you also play the game without the benefits of perks. Which actually makes you better.
It's like a Hex build, high risk, sometimes high reward.
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I used to not run Decisive Strike on principle since it was a perk that I was really annoyed going against as Killer (though I hate Object of Obsession way more due to its anti-fun nature, that is a perk I DEFINITELY don't use on principle). I recently decided to grit my teeth and give it a try, even attempting the less annoying perk synergies like DS and No Mither, or DS and Tenacity, and I was surprised to find that I didn't get it to proc as often as I thought I would. That does have something to do with my playstyle though, I use DS defensively as an insurance, not as a tool to play like an idiot and force it on the killer, which was the main reason I hated going against it as Killer.
But no, I know the true reason why this perk is problematic and deserves a revisiting at some point: the moment you are unhooked, you have 60 seconds where you are immune to being hooked again and can do basically whatever you like until then. Even when the Killer downs you and slugs you, you can also run Unbreakable to cover the counters of both perks and waste the Killer's time no matter what they do (this is one of the perk synergies that I find so irritating that I refuse to ever pair them together, DS and OoO as well). Even when you don't run Unbreakable with DS, and the Killer manages to slug you for an extended amount of time, although both Survivor's and Killer's time is wasted, it is time that the Survivor can make up easier than the Killer can. The very existence of the perk, the presence of an Obsession, can benefit a Survivor that's not even using the perk if the Killer is afraid of losing momentum.
I've said it before, and I will stand by it: Decisive Strike should be an anti-tunneling perk, that's what people would like for it to be. The way it works now makes it function as an anti-momentum perk, which is just unacceptable, because many Killers live or die on their ability to maintain pressure on Survivors and snowball.
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I don't like DS because once you use it, it's gone and you will most likely get chased after escaping their grasp. Yeah, I get points if I hit the skill check, but from my experience it just delays my hook. I have had it used on me as killer and after awhile I found other ways to pressure survivors than tunneling one out. I like to get all of them on second hook at least before I put one on death hook, or even a mori, but tunneling isn't my style. It isn't fun for the survivor, and it's too easy for me. Hot take, but BT might be a good base kit for survivors (like 5 seconds, nothing major) but it's not my place to recommend stuff for the game lol
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Im running ds and its fine that i dont use it most of the time. Im happily wasting a perk slot to have an insurance against farming survivor and tunneler.
I dont try to use it, when the killer doesnt tunnel. I dont want to use it as invincible shield.
I never used old ds and the only reason i started using ds was that i was green/purple rank and it was full of farming survivor and killer who tunneled. Red rank is a lot better. (Most of the time)
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"Decisive only really gets used most of the time at this point when you’re playing reckless and trying to force it. And once that becomes your default playstyle, you mistakenly think the perk is a necessity. Kind of like Killers with Shadowborn/BBQ addiction. Or Survivors with exhaustion perk reliance."
Or for survivors who want to live longer and prolong the chase or simply want to play the game a little longer before getting killed.
Please stop making DS like a negative aspect of the game, some players just want to live a bit longer. They're not being toxic, they're not forcing it, they're not trying to get the killer's attention, they're not being jerks, they just want to live longer. That's it.
Have you ever thought about that?
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I just stated my opinion, I never said anything about tunneling and camping you strawmanning person.
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Blood pact is super fun to use. Vision on the Obsession and haste for either of you when one heals the other, it's a nice touch when the killer's close by but you wanna finish that last second of healing.
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Watch ScottJunds Video about WhatAboutism in Dead by Daylight.
WhatAboutism is a really big problem in the community.
And you are part of a problem.
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Overrated. 99% of games I would outlast it’s use time, and with that remaining 1% I would mess up the skill check half the time because I would forget I was even using the perk. Learn to live without it and it will only make you a better player.
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I play Killer at Rank 1 and Survivor at Red Ranks. People rarely use Decisive Strike unless they’re trying to force it.
If I get hit with Decisive its usually because the Survivor hopped in a locker or made no attempt to loop, and at that point I figure the chase was so quick that its worth eating it and going for round 2. Otherwise it only comes into play at the exit gate or when I’m having a really good game and three people have been unhooked recently so I’m technically “tunneling” 75% of the team.
I’m sure there are legitimate uses for Decisive but at the level I play at. The perk doesn’t get used the way its intended and its usually exploited because no Killer in their right mind would intentionally chase a Survivor fresh off hook
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It depends a lot on the playstyle. I found that with mine DS is completely superfluous, but I see a lot of people who can't clearly play without it.
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Decisive strike is literally the reason why my wife left me, so maybe consider that before saying DS "isn't a big deal" or "is only an issue for tantrum-prone killers who can't stand not being completely dominant over the survivors"
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So am I, what's your point?
Like I said, some of us just want to live longer against Forever Freddy's and Stridor Spirits.
The perks gets used as intended whenever I misplay or am not paying attention to the match. VERY RARELY I get a survivor who hops in a locker but most of the time I don't.
I don't make a whole forum post about it whenever I misplay and I get DS'ed, I don't come to the forums and complain for nerfs.
Eat the DS and move on, you Ruin+Undying+Tinkerer players have had your ego stroked too much.
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Actually, I’m a Ruin/Undying/Surge player btw. It’s chief’s kiss on the Killers I play.
I’m more looking at it from the Survivor side though. You’re devoting a perk slot to a perk most Killers will play around unless you exploit it. So if you’re playing fair its a useless dead slot (which is why i think the perk is overrated). Or you can try to exploit it to force value from the perk slot (which has limited success and, personally, I think is pretty scummy).
I just can’t justify it in my builds. Killers respect Decisive so hard that I sometimes get to crawl out the exit gate in endgame because they don’t want to bother picking up and risking it.
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"You’re devoting a perk slot to a perk most Killers will play around unless you exploit it."
See that? You're using it as a NEGATIVE again, killers even at Rank 1 don't play around it and will tunnel you. Have you ever thought about shifting the blame to the killer who is intentionally tunneling a survivor? OR will you keep deflecting the "fault" to the survivor for playing "dirty" or "exploiting the perk?"
Have you given a thought to "HM...maybe the killer is tunneling the survivor?"
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Honestly, neither of those scenarios even come up in the majority of games. I’ve had plenty of games where my three teammates were all running Decisive Strike and it didn’t get used.
Decisive Strike is like a bad insurance policy. You spend the perk slot and get no value way more than you actually benefit from it.
Most of the Obsession Perks are like that. For the People and Mettle of Man, also tend to have dead perk slot syndrome more than they get used. The only consistent Obsession Perks in my opinion are Blood Pact and Object and even both of those have unfortunate scenarios where they can be useless or actively detrimental.
Based on realistic use and not pure theoretical value most Obsession perks are B or even C tier
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Congratulations on breaking your bad habit OP. Your a better person for it <3.
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I never use it, period. And I do just fine.
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Decisive is so powerful that killers play around it just from having an obsession in their games. It has presence even when no one actually has it, that's far from overrated.
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I run MoM more than I run DS and MoM tends to be useless, I just want an obsession in the match.
Good to see you are also finding ways to play around OP.
I've been doing the same with exhaustion perks except head on but I mean it's just for fun and not to win tbf.
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Look, I don't need to watch a DbD video to learn about "WhatAboutism", but thanks for the offer.
I explained below to what I intended to ask originally, it may have come across differently. I do still believe their opinion is wrong, though. I want to understand their position better. Is DS inherently cheap? Camping and tunneling is extremely frustrating to deal with, and that's why perks like BT and DS exist. If you say, "I don't use DS, because it feels cheap", then I have to wonder if camping and tunneling is okay? And if not, then why is DS cheap in the first place? Feels like a hollow statement, something isn't "cheap" for no reason.
And I am responding to your opinion because I fail to understand why you feel DS is cheap when all it does it protect you from a tunneling and camping Killer, that is literally what it's designed for. Yes, it could use some tweaks as currently it can be used in a toxic way to annoy the Killer, but honestly, you can avoid doing that and just make use of DS' intended utility. Also, I apologize for being too blunt in my original response, I just wanted to know why exactly you feel using DS is cheap, even when it's used for the right reasons (avoiding tunneling, camping). So instead of trying to spark a new irrelevant debate, which I did not intend to do at all, please elaborate so I can understand better.
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Or instead of making someone miserable and using the inability to 12-hook to justify it, you could practice snowballing map pressure.
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Same. Sometimes I get hardcore tunneled, sure, but most of the time those games have an Obsession, so...
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You can't 12 hook a 4 man, it's literally impossible. They split gens and have good chases out of your control. Rule: If you can 12 a 4 man, they weren't a very good 4 man.
Plus "making someone miserable", nah, It's called adapting to how badly this game is balanced around good teams. They wanna pump out gens in 5 minutes, I'm going to get someone dead as quickly as possible and pressure from there. End of the day these people want to win as badly as possible disregarding the killers fun, so I'm going to do the same.
Even then, if I'm in a 4 man or I'm against a squad I know, it's pretty fun to have a sweaty match once in a while.
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Ya Ever think if they do what people have suggested and made it more effective against tunnelers and not anti momentum itd be better for both sides? I mean ive had times where ive had to purposely go down or jump into a locker before ds runs out. Simply making it go down at like 2x the rate when working on a gen is a possible one i saw. Making the timer stop in chase is another because if they say keep it at 60 seconds killers would have to moonwalk for 60 seconds or longer to avoid ds. Which in that time good luck. Theres ways to balance ds into its purpose that are better than its current one. Im personally tired of hooking 2 people then being hit by the dang thing for "tunneling". They wanna abuse it they cant do gens or they risk lowering the time fairly simple.
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Please point out, in great detail, where I somehow contradicted myself and said that 12 hooks was reasonable?
Tunneling is literally just you giving up on trying to win, it's not very effective against exactly the kind of team you're talking about. It's pretty much just BM. The other three have plenty of time to do gens and leave. If it's working for you against these sweaty 4-person squads, then I have some real bad news for you: They weren't a sweaty 4-person squad. You just bullied some random person trying to have fun.
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There are three ways you can put more pressure on good survivors. Camping, tunneling or slugging. There are also different ways to tunnel, tunneling you are describing is what rank 15 killer does chasing a looper entire game while putting zero pressure on the map. Smart tunneling is when you switch targets when you see a survivor who is dead on the next hook and got no DS timer left. When you eliminate a survivor it's much easier time to slug and control remaining three survivors.
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That doesn't work against good teams, I'm not talking about letting yourself get looped into oblivion. DS alone buys two whole gens worth of time.
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I think you missed the part where i exactly said that if the survivor who is dead on next hook HAS NO ds timer left. They become high priority. This is common sense. When i take that person out now i have to deal with only 75% of their original team.
You want good examples?
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I was ignoring your example because it made no sense in the overall context of the discussion wherapon the person I was replying to was claiming that it's basically unfair because it means they cannot hardcore tunnel good teams.
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You said in your other comment that tunneling doesn't work against swear 4-man squad. When in fact, it's the only way you can pretty much beat them. Like i said, no brainless tunneling without zero pressure doesn't work, but smart and calculated tunneling does when you also apply pressure. There also few examples against legit teams
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