Visit the Kill Switch Master List for more information on these and other current known issues: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/299-kill-switch-master-list
We encourage you to be as honest as possible in letting us know how you feel about the game. The information and answers provided are anonymous, not shared with any third-party, and will not be used for purposes other than survey analysis.
Access the survey HERE!
Unpopular opinion: Killers are more scummy than the average survivor.
As a Killer main, whenever I play solo survivor or with some friends, almost every game has the killer acting ''scummy'' in a way. Albeit by tunnelling off the hook, literal face camping or slugging the survivor whilst standing near/over them until their DS has ran out, hooking them and then doing the same again when they get rescued.
Then there's also the fact that on a bad night, I can see Killers bringing a mori every other game.. or begin hitting survivors on the hook after downing them because they didn't win the chase quickly and got legitimately outplayed by the survivor who didn't abuse a broken structure/map.
From the other side, I'm not saying I do not tunnel/camp or slug, but I generally only do these things if the survivors are playing SO well, or if I see a key/toxicity, other than that, I'll go out of my way to play nice and let everyone have a fair chance to play. Yet when I play survivor, there are so many matches where Killers will tunnel or camp when they're playing well and aren't even losing, just to be a dick it seems.
So yeah, my opinion is that the average killer player is more scummy and whiny than the average survivor player, thoughts?
Comments
-
it's pretty much even
13 -
Sometimes that's just the way it is, take it on the nose and move on
1 -
Yeah, killer is the power role. After they've been looped and humiliated for a long time, they like to get revenge by making the survivor who played the game well suffer. It's really quite dark, and disturbing motivation behind DBD. Not a wholesome game.
9 -
Did you expect a game about playing a serial killer and murdering people to be wholesome?
19 -
Survivors are so much more scummy on the whole than killers, it's honestly a little frightening. You'd think that killers would be the ones with all the power, and thus all the structural power advantage that leads to becoming scummy. However, the devs have catered the game to the survivors so much so that actually survivors are the ones that run every match and thus have the power and the structural reinforcement to become scummy. As I'm running NOED, 3 Ruin Hexes, BBQ+Chili, Nurses Calling, and a Mori, I'm constantly bombarded with survivor BS and sometimes don't get as many kills as I deserve.
5 -
I mean, I've ran into pretty much the same amount of 'scummy' survivors as I have 'scummy' killers. Seems pretty even to me, a split of facecamping, hitting on hook killers and Survivors who teabag and clicky at every stun, then DC when they get downed (most of the time on the first down). I've had people that ran into me with an obvious "I've got DS haha", get downed (because they ran into me) then proceed to DC because I didn't pick them up.
Then I've also ran into people who Facecamp with a mori because they didn't down somebody in the first seven seconds of the game. It's just an online game thing, both sides can be full of #########-heads.
4 -
Yeah that's just some BS, if you can't 3-4k with a mori then your skill as a Killer is definitely in question.
5 -
I wouldn't say that's an unreasonable opinion. Small groups of survivors and a tiny minority of solos are a bit scummy, but honestly, I find killers to be the worst, and I've played more killer than survivor. Scummy killers are also the first to complain about "toxic SWF" and claim they get these crazy, coordinated DEPIP squads every game. Translation: "I usually play terribly and resort to ineffective tactics (that only work against uncoordinated solos), but refuse to accept that average SWFs are beating me, so I'll just pretend they're the best survivors in the game and claim that's all I get. BVHR, please give me another bloodlust-esque leg up. No, I can't improve how I play and no, the tactics I'm using aren't flawed. I'm just fighting tournament level teams all the time, that's all."
Something like that, anyway. Most games, if I lose, it's generally because I dun goofed. Badly. There's the odd game where the imbalance across maps shows, but in all honesty, it's super rare against most teams (even SWF). Pretending otherwise is just dishonest.
Edit: The game has never been easier for killer, I mean, have you looked at most of the new, non-linked tiles? Christ they're awful. Killers can just bloodlust around them or, in some cases, "just go around, lol."
7 -
I feel like killers have had to be due to scummy survivors
1 -
Idk about recently as playing Survivor is pretty much on hold for me, but over the years i've had about equal treatment.
The only way i could confidently define a side to be more scummy than the other is to count the sheer quantity of it, in which case the Survivors would easily be more scummy, cause y'know, 4 Survivors & 1 Killer per lobby.
5 -
What part of "sometimes don't get as many kills as I deserve" makes you think that I'm not dominating almost all matches and only losing a respectable amount of times because of survivor BS
Keep the toxic competitiveness to yourself; it's affecting your reading comprehension
2 -
This entire thread is kind of silly. Most of the things being mentioned as "scummy" are simply the game. The only way to be scummy, in point of fact, is to cheat, disconnect leaving the other players holding the bag, or engage in vile pre-game or post-game chat. Those are the only real criteria for being slime. Moreover, this entire thread perpetuates the notion that somehow Survivors and Killers are separate parties. They are not. Those are merely roles in the match. We are all just PLAYERS of this game, and most of us play both roles from time to time. This false narrative of "sides" is both a lie and damaging to the greater community overall.
I was in post game chatter once (not too long ago) where I apologized for bringing a weak game. I didn't play as hard as I could have because I was more interested in completing a Rift. The Survivor was polite back and said no worries, but I could apologize for the camping. I said, "Nope. I don't apologize for playing the game, nor for whatever legal/valid tactics I employ." He took it in good humor and we left it at that. In short, don't hate the Playa... hate the game. Dead by Daylight is a PvP game where the two roles have mutually exclusive goals. The fun comes in the challenge, not the outcome. This attempt to try and redefine how other people should play is just one more way of trying to shift the blame for one's own failures onto others. We lie best when we lie to ourselves.
7 -
No. but there are other games that have mature content (and display violence) that don't rely on humiliation and wounded pride as a primary motivator.
2 -
The game doesn't rely on those things, nor does it have any control over them. Wounded pride is decided upon by fiat, the person who has no control over their emotions. The same is true of humiliation.
1 -
Their both equally scummy. Carry on
4 -
A lone survivor can hardly be 'scummy', though they can act toxic. However a killer can usually easily dispatch and punish a survivor. The far less frequent but virulent alternative is a group of survivors being toxic. They're rarer, because most groups aren't /that/ bad, and yes jerkoff killers are more frequent, because despite incentivizing multiple hooking in both scoring and BP reward, people still choose to just one hook camp, tunnel and slug to get Brutal Killer with a 4K.
It ultimately goes both ways, it's just that lone survivors don't last long when being turds and are hardly noticeable.
0 -
Well if that fits your criteria for being scummy then... I'm not sure if you're right about whose more scummy. What's the criteria for survivors being scummy? Hook bombing? Doing gens too fast? Not respecting the killer? Suiciding on hooks? Keys?
1 -
Agreed. The game has been slowly moving towards a even playfield for both roles, sure, in some aspects, survivors have it better, but in the vast majority of situations, if you lost as a Killer (Let's say losing is four escapes, or less than 2 kills, the default balance the developers want) then you made multiple mistakes.
A lot of Killers just blame their lose on the game when its come to a point where if you're good at Killer, you'll do well. Hell, if you're good at Killer mechanics, use Ruin/Undying and bring someone like Freddy or Spirit into the match, you will 9/10 times get a 3-4k.
0 -
For survivors, I'd argue being ''scummy'' is:
-Sangbagging teammates, or not providing a fair level of altruism (e.g bodyblocks, taking the heat off someone else, rescuing them off hooks).
-Bringing a Key, although not as bad as a red mori, it's still pretty bad.
-Click Click Click
-Noise Notifications
0 -
I don't really understand this idea.
If you're telling people to play how they want and completely ignore the other side's experience, you're basically breeding a toxic game for both sides, where more and more people will become frustrated and unsatisfied with the game.
Imagine if every game, the Killer brought a red mori, tunnelled, camped, and used Spirit/Nurse, etc. Or if all four survivors brought keys, DS/UB, gen rushed. The game would become miserable, whereas, if we tell BOTH survivors and killers to play with some respect and empathy to the other side, the game would become more fun and enjoyable.
Call it entitlement, but I'd argue its reasonable to want to have a fair and fun experience in any video game. I don't expect people to do it, but we should promote the idea to do it.
0 -
This!
Killer mains go through very annoying [BAD WORD] daily, I get that. Yet some people seem to forget killer players can be just as bad. I'll level here, before the chapter release toxic killers were so rare you'd find a Dwight in a locker before finding a toxic killer. To be honest? I think the reason there's been an increase in toxicity is because the game is slowely but surely getting more balanced. Killer players have alot of frustration they've been building up over the years
I've been playing DBD the past 2 hours, been forced to put on DS, BT and Unbreakable because for some reason tonight people have just decided "Let's be jerks for the sake of it." Slugging every game, relentless tunneling(not always me but it was in some games, leaving the last guy to bleed out. The whole enchilada You name it I've seen it tonight, including a freddy letting a Dwight wiggle off constantly after closing hatch, untill he was killed by EGC.
5 -
If we consider suicide on first hook scummy, I would say there is more scummy survivors than killers. I hate bitches that can't handle one hook. And I don't accept any excuse for this scummy move.
3 -
Here is an even more unpopular opinion. Camping, tunneling and slugging are all 100% viable, effective and legitimate strategies. Your goal is killer is not to let all of the survivors have a feel-good, easy game. It makes no sense that people get so butthurt about people simply pursuing that goal using the most effective means possible. Now, that isn't to say that the above-mentioned strategies are always the best solution. However, I think they often are especially when facing more coordinated teams of survivors. Also, each of these strategies has a very clear counterplay.
If a killer is camping, slugging or tunneling, simply punish them by rushing generators. This has happened to my friends and I when we play 4-man premades on survivor. If one of our friends gets caught, we simply rush gen and let the killer sit there and camp them. If we can, we might circle back once we're about to open the gates, but it also happens often enough that we don't rescue that particular survivor. However, the point is that we deny the killer the 4K match, which is what they really want. As a killer, if I only manage to get a 1K, I know I played something seriously wrong. If survivors actually punished those strategies, they wouldn't be so common.
Furthermore, I don't care what a bunch of butthurt survivors think when it comes to toxicity. Survivors are some of the most toxic players on the planet, thinking that they're so skilled because they know how to catch you in a loop or vault through a window/ledge. Can't tell you how many times survivors have teabagged at me after dropping a single pallet on me or flickered a flashlight at me after vaulting through a window. Yes, when this happens, I do camp the hell out of those players because it is irritating that they're such smug pricks. Funnily enough, it is often those same survivors who DC on the first down/hook most of the time.
0 -
It's something more rudimentary to human psychology.
When you have an OP killer and 4 survivors its really your principles and accountability that keep you in check. All it can take is one flash light survivor and the scummy plays come out.
Big picture this is why democracies tend to win over dictatorships.
As a dictator, if people do something that annoys you, you don't have to listen, it's only your principles that hold you in check, there's no accountability, relative to say a democracy.
Killers aren't accountable except maybe in end game chat, which they can switch off. They used to be held accountable by survivors d/c. If a game wasn't fun people would leave and they would spend more time in the queue, then playing.
That's why you see more killer scummy plays, there's no accountability, it's only the individuals principles that decides if they will play scummy or not.
0 -
Wanting to have a fun and fair experience for BOTH sides is being entitlted?
Yikes man, this community literally be promoting toxic gameplay and then turn around to ######### about it when it happens to them.
0 -
What is fun for a killer about being gen-rushed and perma-looped? Because, without using tactics like slugging, camping or tunneling that is what happens to killers 90% of the time. Survivors are not always supposed to survive. Simple as that. It is not the killer's job to make sure you have fun.
0 -
*Frothing at the mouth*
0 -
I tunneled tonight with Pyramid Head because I was in a bad mood.
I'm not sorry.
1 -
If a killer tries to be nice, he will be kicked in the teeth.
BHVR has a bad habit of leaving large quantities of overpowered survivor gameplay elements in place for extended periods of time, only weaning them off slowly.
Due to constantly having to fight a torrential downpour of bullshit, this fosters a somewhat skilled, but HIGHLY SPITEFUL killer playerbase.
They know exactly what they need to do to win, and they dislike the opposing side just enough that they don't care if they have a good time.
On the other side, the constant availability of extra chance has raised a largely unskilled survivor playerbase that doesn't know they're unskilled.
They'll run a full squad of DS Unbreakable DH Adrenaline against a No Add-on Wraith on Haddonfield, act like they're the best players in the world when "only two" of them die, and the spout nonsense on the forums about how "Actually, DS is necessary because tunnel bad".
5 -
Those things are part of the game, if u suffer to much just go next game dont waste time if u doesnt enjoy.
1 -
Same exact thing can be said about killers.
The amount of times I've seen Ruin+Undying+Tinkerer+whateverthehelloptional4thperk a killer runs and leaves everyone dead at 5 gens.
Camping and Tunneling also raises spiteful levels in survivors that in turn, turns them toxic. Don't forget the killer sided hits as well, the amount of Chinese killers I see on a daily basis here in Los Angeles is ridiculous, hitting me after a vault, after a pallet drop, they have no business here and yet the hits are still killer sided. So EXXXCUUUUUSSSSSEEEE ME for using Meta Perks on a killer I can't see until the End-Game screen.
Maybe if we can see who the killer is, maybe their profile I can avoid playing against VPN killers who abuse the killer sided hits.
Don't act like killers are innocent, because we both very well know the toxicity is felt on both sides.
2 -
100% agree.
And we DID have the ability to check who killers were at one stage, but the devs removed it.
That's why when you get these entitled 'poor killer' posts, its just a joke at this point. Half the comments on this forum you could attribute to people not playing since release, and being in a bubble.
Playing killer now is easier than at any point at release.
1 -
Yes because clearly a build that allows killers to maybe have enough time to play the game before it ends (unless they find the totems immediately, pair up on gens to finish them before the killer can respond to Tinkerer, or just hold M1 to stop Ruin) is absolutely the exact same thing as a build that grants ~3 extra lives per trial via exhaustion perks, 60-120 seconds of invulnerability with DS, immunity to slugging via unbreakable, and a combined +1 health state and 16.67 seconds worth of distance in the endgame.
3 -
good to know my hook deaths vs spirits are sending you
0 -
As a killer main, I agree that killers on average are more likely to be scumbags. I’ve started to play more survivor recently and the amount of people who just blatantly face camp or tunnel even when they’re doing fine in the match is staggering. I basically have to bring DS damn near every game because there’s like a 7/10 chance that the killer will just tunnel. If there’s no obsession then tunnelling is even worse because they don’t even have to fear a stun so yeah. I say all this knowing that I’m not some perfect person. If I’m having a rough game then I might decide to tunnel someone out of the game so I have a fighting chance. Tunnelling even when you’re doing just fine is definitely not something I’d do intentionally though. Sometimes it can’t be avoided if the unhooker is immersed though.
2 -
People talk a lot about mains on here as if you're legally only allowed to play one side but a lot of "scummy" survivors and killers are often the same people. The survivor who rages in post game about being tunnelled when they weren't will be moriing people off first hook at 5 gens later on. The rulebooks only apply to the other team, whichever one that currently is.
3 -
This is the thing: it's even, but it appears that survivors are worse because in a game there are 4 survivors to one killer, so you're bound to witness more toxicity and scummy plays from one side.
If you mean in terms of abusing what they're able to do, however, my experience is that, as killer, maybe 1 in about 20 games with a team with DS UB use it for invincibility in an obnoxious manner, but more than half of killers I come across will tunnel people out of existence ASAP when 5 gens are still yet to be done. (legit, the number of times I've been literally facecamped, as in killer's face against my hooked body, this week, is insane)
0 -
Killers play more scummy because there is more things killer do which are considered scummy.
When survivors deprive as much killer's fun as possible it is considered as impressive skill.
When killer deprives survivor's fun it is different somehow.
I don't even get why people expect their opponent to care about their fun in PVP game. Like, if you get photon rushed in StarCraft 2 it is only your fault, because you don't know how to resist such tactics, but in this game if killer camps you and your entire team runs at him and dies - it is somehow killer's fault.
2 -
Bringing a key or a mori is a debatable point, as they're both part of the game and free to use.
1 -
No, that isn't what that poster was saying. It is rude to put words in their mouth. The rules of this game can be boiled down to:
- Don't cheat, either by hacks or lag spikes.
- Don't disconnect; if you start a game finish it.
- Be humble in victory, and gracious in defeat. (This last one is really not a rule just an expectation of good sportsmanship).
Playing by the RULES is not ignoring the other side's experience. We all know the rules of this game when we come to play. We don't get to add ones we like better. You don't get to grief/shame other people for not abiding by your own extra set of morals and morays. I will give you an honest, hard game. When you beat me, you can take pride in the fact that YOU beat me. I won't be blaming it on anything "toxic" or "scummy" or "sweaty" or any other idiot term de jour. I am not responsible for your fun, nor are you responsible for mine. Our mutual expectations should be (no more and no less) that we are going to give a good effort. We bring our own fun to the game. You should be here for the challenge. If you don't like PvP you should find a different game. There are plenty of them out there.
And yes, I will agree you; I think your attitude is definitely a sense of entitlement. I'll go one further, it is unearned entitlement. We all face the same things when we play this game. Nobody likes it when things go south, and few people enjoy losing. We play for love of the game, not the outcome. We should only be promoting that people do numbers 1-3 above, nothing more and nothing less. What you call "promoting" I call giving people salty grief and attempting to shame them. It isn't a good look, so don't try to dress it up as something noble. It isn't.
4 -
Yes.
Didn't expect that answer, didja? ;)
2 -
Interesting point, tho I'd say that survivors tend to be more disrespectful most of the times, especially in endgame chat since it's common to be hateful towards that killer, since your teammates will probably back you up.
I don't think that there aren't scummy killers, there are. But I doubt that survivors are less scummy than the killers.
Even tho, comparing survivors and killers doesn't make sense since if a player is toxic as survivor, they'll probably be toxic and scummy as a killer. But that's, in my experience, the trend I keep seeing.
0 -
PERIODT.
0 -
There is none, the game is designed in such a way that one player's joy is another player's grief. There's no mutual fun to be had, just frustration on one end and relief on the other.
0 -
Whatever you say buddy. :) It suffices to say, and as a psychologist you should know, that our emotional state and how we interact with the world is based largely on how we choose interpret things. If we have decided something is humiliating, it is humiliating. This is a game that people CHOOSE to play. They know the rules. They know the outcomes. If they still let it damage their Pride, they should be seeing you for other, much larger issues.
0 -
The vast majority of the player base would agree that camping, tunnelling, gen rushing and all the other components of the game that I listed in another post are frustrating and are anti-fun. In fact, we know that the majority of the community are frustrated with these aspects of the game because we see frequent and daily posts complaining about those very aspects.
There's nothing about this game that is competitive. There's no competitive queue, there are no rewards for achieving a higher rank, there are no statistics or rankings in the game to ideally distinguish someone as a better player than another, the game is pretty casual at its core and people play casual video games to have a fun and fair experience. When you tell people that they can play in anyway they want as long as it isn't a form of cheating, you're breeding a toxic form of gameplay that just breeds more misery and hatred for the other side and drives people away from the game.
I'm not even saying you cannot EVER not camp, tunnel, slug or bring the components of the game that I listed, I'm just asking the community to have some empathy for the other side and understand that if you do those very aspects of the game, the other side is going to get pissed and probably curse at you, because guess what, those very elements of the game are frustrating. Sitting in a queue as a survivor for 10 minutes, to instantly see a Spirit with a mori tunnel you off hook and eliminate you from the game in 1.30 minutes and earn 5K bloodpoints is miserable.
Sure, it's entitlement, but it's entirely fair to have the expectation of being able to PLAY the game and have a decent experience with it. That's the entire point and existence of video games, to have fun with them. Now, if you're telling people to play like a dick to the other side, you're just breeding toxicity, end of discussion.
It's even more weird how we're respectful to others in the real world, yet when it comes to the virtual world, we just don't care anymore and live to make the other side as miserable as possible.
0 -
The problem here, between you and I, is that I don't feel it is disrespectful or lacking empathy to play hard and give 100%. I am making the assumption they are doing the same. I don't give them grief or try to shame them about their builds at the end of the game. I also think you are making a very big assumption (and a wrong one) when you say that that the vast majority of the player base agree on anything.
- This Forum is not the player base. All the posters here, and who have ever posted here, are still a tiny minority compared to the countless players we will never see post, or show up on social media. Most players just play the game; bless them!
- Even the people who do post on this Forum don't even make up the majority of people who read it. Angry people tend to post, which skews the perspective like a funhouse mirror. If you were to judge the game by the people posting, you wouldn't believe the game is profitable. You would think the Devil himself is the CEO and their only purpose is to ruin the lives and fun of everyone they suck in.
- People tend to be hypocritical. They think those things are anti-fun when directed at them, but it doesn't stop them from diving in with gusto when the shoe is on the other foot. I can't name and shame, but I've a running list of people I've played against that post here who play the opposite of how they "claim" to play. I find it very amusing.
I make no bones about it. I will Tunnel, Slug, Camp, and Mori if a particular match calls for it. Those things are valid tactics and specialized tools. Sometimes they are the right tool to use, and sometimes they are not. Killers also make use of Herding to keep up Generator Pressure (pivotal in importance), and to create the subtle but effective 3-Gen lock for late game. Likewise, Killers must know when to break off a chase, and when not to start it in the first place. They must mind game properly, and they must know when to play dumb. That is to say, you can miss on purpose, do things in dumb patterns early in a game which sets up the GOOD Loopers for failure later at a key time. In other words, if you identify someone who is going to be hard to catch, you make sure he/she loses all fear of you. It makes bank.
Killers and Survivors both have their specific role and mutually exclusive goals. This is a PvP game and once people accept that and stop trying to apply their own (usually hypocritical) standards beyond the rules, they will be happier and have more fun. Let me put it another way, I also used to grind my teeth about being tunneled, slugged, camped, or catching a Mori. To me, it seemed like it was happening all the time. So I started tracking it. Guess what? It wasn't. Those things, particularly as I left the potato ranks behind, are a distinct minority. Once I stopped worrying about it, they seemed to happen even less. My fun went up by leaps in bounds when I stopped worrying about what other people are doing in the match and just worried about what I'm doing.
0 -
This was playing ptb trying to have fun with the twins ran in to a swf t bagging non stop flashlight clicking non stop. Met them again as Freddy. Instant dc told me how toxic I was
0 -
Problem is, you can play seriously whilst still being respectful to the other side unless it's going to make you lose. There's been so many situations where the killer is in no threat of losing, but will still tunnel or hardcore camp. Why? You're going to win regardless of what you do, so why make the game miserable for one particular person?
The moral of the story is to not act like a dick for no reason, in my opinion.
0
