What is the point in Moris now?
I want to start off with saying I never favored the playstyle where you just tunneled each person off of first hook for easy 4k. That's scummy and not fun for survivors with very little counters outside of the sweat meta.
That being said, what is the point in running a Mori now? It literally only saves you from having to go to the hook, and that completely invalidates Pyramid Head's unique advantage/power. He literally does not get value out of Mori's if playing well.
So can someone enlighten me as to what good a Mori is now? You save yourself having to walk to a hook and potentially don't have to deal with loosing the survivor when picking them up. That's it now. Nothing else. If you want that play PH?
EDIT: Also it does not negate DS. They literally have to be hooked twice, meaning DS will be active at least once in the match before you can Mori. It can cut off someone who didn't use it foolishly.
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PH's secondary kill is faster than his mori (2 seconds long I believe)
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Oh so it's actually negative value out of a Mori? oof.
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If you tunnel them off the 2nd hook and down them before they can get their locker DS, there is that. Basically Pyramid Head.
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It stops the dreaded free escape in the endgame with DS. If you hooked them twice before.
Honestly now it's more a fancy bloodpoint boost
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You can tunnel off second hook instead of first with no fear of DS, so while it’s weaker, it’s not like it’s totally useless. Being able to get a tunnel kill at a crucial time can be the difference between killing 2 or 3 survivors and killing none.
It’s also now a soft counter to exit gate DS.
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The point is that it's a unique animation. I don't personally care for them, but a lot of people really seem to like earning and watching them.
They still also negate DS, and I suppose they might also save you a few seconds in hooking people. In a game where players are so optimized in the highest ranks, saving a few seconds in a tight match isn't to be sneezed at.
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Cool animations and satisfaction from them :]
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You can still prevent any saves like DS, pallet, flashlight or power struggle saves. It saves valuable time. And it should never have been as powerful as it was to begin with.
don’t get me wrong, I don’t like the change either, but it’s not THAT bad. And this state is healthier for the game than before.
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At first they removed bloodlust, and now this. I have no interest or intent to play as a killer anymore 😒
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It doesn't negate DS if they have an opportunity to use it before you can use a Mori...
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''you just tunneled each person off of first hook for easy 4k. That's scummy and not fun for survivors with very little counters outside of the sweat meta.''
And that's why it got nerfed.
No one waits till they've hooked all survivors and no one didn't tunnel.
Survivors aren't npcs, they are people trying to have fun in the game as well, and old Moris were anything but that.
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And juicy dailies for 60k BPs 💪
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I would avoid tunneling with it if they weren't toxic. I really only used it for venting or for punishing toxic people. Can't do that anymore :(
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It exists so that survivors can enjoy cool animation.
Making them activate after 2nd hook is such a lazy change that doesn't even fix the tunneling issue.
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Yup core issue is just band-aid fixed and killers don't get any real value out of it. Classic.
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I only see complains but no solutions. What would ANY of you have done instead of this? Moris are now borderline useless, I agree, but they couldn't just leave them to be as OP as they were.
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I've seen plenty of interesting suggestions and have worked on one with someone before.
Make it so you can't Mori someone fresh off of a hook until you've hooked someone else. Very simple, leaves the power of a Mori mostly intact while completely gutting the tunneling factor, and falls in line with rewarding a killer for playing and hooking.
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Well that actually sounds interesting and I'd rather try that! Still, I believe it would encourage a very passive playstyle on survivors who have been hooked, just like matches with moris nowadays tend to have at least 1 leaver or thrower.
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There is none. At least competitively. They are only there if you want to see some (potentially) cool kills. But in terms of the game they do nothing now. They are useless while keys are still OP.
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Now the mori will allow you to skip hooking a surivor once, rather than twice. Only reason I can fathom is to give killers enough bloodpoints to avoid bronze emblems???
This also makes Myers/Pyramid Head very interesting killers now, having unique kill events. Something I hope BHVR adds to every killer, maybe, please?
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"Fancy animation" according to every killer that used moris prior to their nerf
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there is none.
thanks BHVR.
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Myers gets some use still out of them, PH literally only gets use out of a Mori now if the survivor isn't affected by Torment. His Mori is longer than his kill animation, it's actually a negative in that case.
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Cool animation. That's it.
I only used Moris for challenges, dailies, or trophies prior to the nerf. Most of the time I play without them.
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If you needed a mori to 4k you were never good.
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Mori's being strong just promotes toxic and unhealthy gameplay from both sides.
Now, they still add some element of power to the killer, but aren't oppressive to survivors and are what they should be, a fun addition to the killer's arsenal.
Not something to destroy every single survivor you come across.
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And now we will have teams of survivors each with a key and no way to stop them from using the hatch. Keys no longer have a counter and are still just as powerful as ever. In fact, I don't believe keys have ever been nerfed, while moris have been nerfed TWICE now with no recompense.
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I agree. If you read anything in this thread you'd have come across this conclusion.
I disagree. Before yes it was oppressive, but now only saving you walking to a hook or a pick-up save is not good enough. It also completely undercuts what makes PH unique.
It went from being a fun offering (too fun lol) to being an offering that is going to hinder you more than it helps you.
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I've said a few times I fully supported "you must hook all survivors once before ivory/ebony can be used" which actively prevents the tunnel issue and still keeps them strong since you can still skip a hook state. 2 hook requirement per survivor makes them actively useless outside of EGC if you think they have DS. Just hook them and they die faster than almost all moris (unsure about average distance traveled verse Pig mori time)
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Yet keys remain as they were /facepalm
There really isnt a point to them, even from a bp perspective, more bps are gained for actually hook sacrificing someone
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You can slug the person with the key to prevent them from opening hatch.
The hatch also doesn't spawn unless 1 survivor is alive or the survivors did more gens than the current number of alive survivors.
If you really hate keys so much you can just run Franklins as well.
To say keys have no counters is stretching.
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If you thought about it critically for a minute, as others in this thread have already done for you, you would see there is still a use for moris.
You can stick to your knee jerk reaction, too, though.
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I've already pointed out everything it can do now. It's just like Nurse's nerf, there was nothing new to look at or use, it was purely limiting the scope of capability. Moris are purely worse than they were before. They do NOTHING that they didn't before, and now they do even less.
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Hinder you more than help you?
I'm sorry but you're talking out of your ass right now. Mori on death hook still lets you ignore DS or the survivors trying to pick the downed survivor or stop a normal third hook. It still lets you eliminate a survivor much quicker.
Mori's literally do not hinder you in anyway, you're just overreacting.
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Just take them out of the game at this point instead of wasting blood web space and future animation resources.
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Fair. I thought that was poorly worded. But that DS argument is baseless. Any good survivor will now just use DS on the first hook every time because it is guaranteed value since you know they can't Mori you.
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The one suggestion I've seen made is make it so Moris require every Survivor be hooked at least once before they activate as a way to mitigate the "tunnel off hook" aspect of them. Worst case only the fourth unhook would be vulnerable to tunneling.
As it is, there's nothing in this change to mitigate that. There's nothing new that prevents a killer from just tunneling someone through two hooks instead of one. Best you can do there is d/c or suicide on hook to deny the mori, but that still benefits the killer.
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Yeah that's how nerfs work.
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Making a mori with a long animation is useless, you waste a lot of time, since they have set it to 2 hang up, do it as a pyramid head.
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How will survivors force their DS on you though?
If they try to get your attention then ignore them like we always do with those clicky clicky survivors
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Yes that's the most basic understanding of it. Most of the time a straight up nerf is not healthy for the game, enjoyable for those players, and shows that your design is weak if all you can do is change numbers. A good change is to weaken the power of something while giving it more utility or uses outside of what it originally did, or does something unique extremely well.
The nerf did none of this.
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Can still counter DS if they haven’t used it yet, also gives you a cool animation.
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People who bring them will tunnel off the 1st hook now, as early in the game as possible to drop it to a 3v1. This change is going to have the opposite effect than intended.
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People who brought moris already did that.
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To down a guy as soon as he gets off his first hook and kill him without worrying about ds
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Some people did that. Now everyone who brings one will as they have no other function.
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I'm going to use some survivor logic on you. Just don't get caught.
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I kind of see it like the opposite, people will bring them in and forget about it if they aren't tunneling. By the time you've gotten to that legit 3rd hook kill that game has progressed quite a lot and you'll probably be focusing on something else to remember you brought a mori.
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I hope you are right, but from my own viewpoint, I never put something in I don't intend to use. The Offering box is too important. If I put a Mori in it is for a key purpose. The most common purpose will be completing a Daily or Rift. That means I will be trying to kill everyone by my own hand. The only way to accomplish that in the Ranks I am in is to tunnel and play as ruthless and mean as possible.
I give people the benefit of the doubt that they will use whatever they put in effectively. I think this will lead to MORE tunneling, not less. Think about it this way:
- It is better to get rid of DS early in the game in any match.
- For the Mori to work you have to hook them twice.
- Commonsense says tunnel the Survivor off the first hook to get rid of DS and/or get 2nd Hook.
Then you can move on to the next person, and tunnel them. It will most likely be whomever did the save of your previous guy. In short, the most efficient way to use the new Ebony is to tunnel and hook each person twice, chaining off the last person you hooked the 2nd time. Then you can Mori a repeat person whenever. Otherwise you are relying entirely on luck.
One of the main reasons people didn't take a BUNCH of keys was because 2+ Keys all but ensured a Mori. Now everyone will be taking lots of Keys. They can also get Keys really easy in the match. So, attempting to play it out slow and hope for getting the Mori later is a losing proposition. The game gets worse for you the longer it goes on. I'm not trying to be a spoilsport. I'm not upset that Mori were changed. I'm just not sure THIS change was a good idea. I honestly think it is going to ensure in the Potato Ranks (100%) that tunneling is the standard. As you get to more accomplished Survivors... well... we will have to wait and see.
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You get to see a cool animation once and never use it again. That's how I always used them.
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