Recent mori changes show whats wrong with the game - and it's NOT the devs!
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It wasn't fine but honestly, maybe they should just remove keys and mori then the useless arguments would end.
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Let me ask you a question, and I totally mean it, I genuinely want to know, no trolling:
Why do you feel / think a mori has to be powerful? Why may it not be "useless" apart from the killing animation?
I honestly do not understand whats so important about it or whats so bad about it if moris are "just a meme".
I have the feeling this is the main discord in this situation, ppl like me who do not care whether a mori is "useless" since it's mainly just about the killing animation, and ppl like you who still want their mori to be powerful enough to have an impact (assuming here). For one fraction, the loss of impact is a non-issue, so the change is perfectly fine. For the other fraction, nerfing mori (too much) is a sacrilege, making the change totally unbearable.
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So now it's in line with the other useless offerings :P /i
You use the offering to get a daily done, bc you like the animation, or you are afraid of late game DS. Easy :)
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I wouldn't even mind them removing both. Only hatch has to stay to prvevent hostage situation.
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making more useless offerings is not a good thing, its boring and limiting of our options.
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What buffs did killers get? U asked for a list... And I don't want to research all that so, I guess that's on me.
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I already wrote that in another response, let me quote myself:
"Taking the survivor side, are you for real? Freddy Buff, Doctor Buff, InstaHeal nerf, Toolbox changes, map reworks (most recent Ormond, oh all the whining), Hex:Undying. I would even say Ruin change was for the better. How on earth can you claim the devs are survivor sided? The last two years shifted the game from heavily survivor sided to more or less even now (with SWF being favor for survivors, and soloQ in favor for the killer). Sure killer got some nerfs as well, and survivors some buffs, but claiming victimhood only for poor killers is so far off the bat that it's not even funny anymore."
And thats only the major things. Let me add some more:
Cannibal Buff (yes i know billy was butchered instead), together with a heavy Tinkerer buff. Plague having a fountain by default. Clown slowdown on through removed. Oni, GF, and Blight all were buffed from their PTB versions and even received some minor buffs / tweaks in following patches. Buffs to various non-meta/niche/meme perks like Franklins,Mindbreaker, Cruel limits. Going more back in the past we also have Trapper, Wraith and Hag adjustements, which made them all stronger (although the first two are still pretty weak).
So, I have done my job and listed killer buffs of the recent years / last months. Now you can come and list me your nerfs. I'm waiting.
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Yeah I agree with you, and I can still "punish" bad play as killer but I just can't do it as quickly and convincingly (or satisfyingly as with an old ebony).
I never minded the hidden object dread as survivor because basically I want to be scared of the killer. Without the tension, survivor really is just M1 simulator. Nothing more terrifying than that mori bearing down on you, I feel survivor game lost more from this thematically than killer game. Everyone's motivation to play is different but I personally feel survivors should be scared of killers its kind of the point. Where's the thrill?
That said 2mins of game time ain't great and yeah I enjoy the mori but the temptation to just butcher someone out early is so great, I fell to the darkside often no matter how much I told myself I would only use it if I needed it.
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Yeah, Killers get "suckerpunched way to [sic] many times now" with all the survivor nerfs and map changes going through to make the game more fair for killers.
The game has literally never been more fair for Killer mains. I'm not arguing whether about the exact state of fairness and balance in DBD, but this argument of killers being unfairly targeted by devs is flat out wrong.
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You have 75 perks and 22 different killers. What more variety do you need?
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Because mori ruins the game for other people?
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Exactly. How one can proclaim that killer game play is so bad when it is in the best state it has ever been is beyond me.
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I don't think this person is worth talking too given them complimenting the survivor main echo chamber in this very thread.
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You heard him devs! Players don't need anymore variety. With 22 killers already, its time to stop cranking out DLC and cosmetics for fat cash injections that only pile up more problems.
You can officially focus on the major bugs and balance issues for a better game now. Variety is totally covered.
Damn good thing these devs aren't greedy at all!
🙄
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My only question on the Mori change is the timing. With all of the long-term bugs in place and the number of completely game-ruining bugs introduced with this patch, they chose to spend the time and effort on this?
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My whole thread is about the communities reaction to an favorable change (bc moris were totally problematic, as recognizes from both sides of the table, the way they ######### the devs for anything they do, just for the sake of complaining (it seems). And after responding to multiple ppl repeating the same skewed view of "killers always only get nerfs", I stated my gratitude to the few ppl that bothered to answer that they share my view. It has NOTHING to do with "survivor mains", you are the one trying to twist it in this direction!
About the one you were talking to, he made a rather stupid remark that "useless addons are boring and limiting our options". Where it is totally justified to point out, that there are already myriads of options available, so having a bunch ob impactful offerings on top is just not necessary! They can remain gimmicky / "useless", esp. when that applies to nearly all oof the orfferings. They are simply not MEANT to be impactful, I would argue, that what perks are for!
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We certainly do not need a bunch of high-impact offerings on top of our perks, it's already difficult enough to balance levels, powers and perks.
About your sly comment, actually YES: We have enough killers. But BHVR has to earn money to continue developing the game and keep the servers running. That has nothing to do with greed. Major bugs are routinely addressed in hotfixes and mid chapter patches. Balance issues are addressed as well, the mori change is EXACTLY THAT!
Yes cosmetics are pretty expensive, but guess what? You do not have to buy them! I really wonder if the communities of other games ######### the same as DbD or if thats an exclusiv thing. Skins in LoL are also super expensive, Loot-Chests in various other games are pure scam. But BHVR is greedy, yeah right.
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But the list I gave u was not from 2017, it's since 2017 til 2019. They also butchered trapper, the doctor, and lullaby on top of the ones I mentioned earlier. Sure they might of buffed bubba, and made some changes to other killers that I would categorize as neutral changes. But saying that it's the same level of buff compare to nerfing them is far fetched.
I am a survivor main. I don't care for it that much to go do back research and give u recent list. I know there's more becuz everyone here was complaining about the amount of killer nerfs. I mean my life is easier due to all the killer butchering but I am not bias. This game is just too easy for survivors. Killers need to be OP.
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Yes. If u don't want to use it, than don't use it. What's ur problem?
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Are you really that thick, or are you trolling?
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Not sure what ur problem is. Mori ruins it for everybody? Or mori ruins it for survivors?
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Offerings that are worth their price in bloodpoints.
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Honestly, I would only use a ivory mori to kill one survivor early. Its 4vw. I have to tip the scales as soon as possible. The only time I have tunneled is when people assumed the worst. Not every killer who uses a mori tunnels.
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Getting jerked off does not make one reasonable mate.
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I admit, the mori change was needed because they were op. But what about the other side of the equation? There is a very broken and op part on the survivor side, that is not being adresses. And thats swf. And i doubt that it ever will be adressed, but its the most broken and unbalanced part of the game.
And this disparity in adressing issues is what some players have a problem with (i for one, and i am a survivor main who used to play killer every now and then)
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The list you posted is just deprecated, and does not really work in proving your pointI had a quick glance at it, it stated STBFL was nerf. It was indeed, but got a buff to it's current state again to make it useful again. Just as an example.
Where the hell was trapper butchered, what do you mean, same with doctor? They were both buffed (trapper got an addon pass and faster trap placements some years ago, doctor rework was a massive improvement). I honsetly don't know what you are talking about. If you would say Pig, she got passively nerfed with introduction of EGC (another thing more favorable for killers, btw!).
On a site note: You do know that "butchering" means something like "nerfing severly to a (nearly) unplayable state", right? Doctor is nowhere near unplayable, he's very solid. Trapper is weaker, but still playable without any issues.
Saying Lullaby was butchered is also a far fetch. Yes it does not affect healing anymore, but it no longer shows in hud even with zero stacks. So you could say it's a neutral change. On top of that, Lullaby was never a great perk to begin with, so there's no great impact.
"made some changes to other killers that I would categorize as neutral changes"
Yes they also did this, but I did not even give an example for it! Prime example would be recent Pyramid Head changes. But the other things I mentioned were actual bufffs. Oni got his flick added (granted it was removed after PTB, if I remember right). GF got some minor buffing number changes and a big one, adding Undetectable state, which also buffed other stealth killers. Blights addons were totally reworked between PTB and live. Yes his aura-read addon was then nerfed afterwards, but that was to be expected, since it legitly was to strong. Recently he got his Adrenaline Vial changed totally, which makes it better than before.
"But saying that it's the same level of buff compare to nerfing them is far fetched."
But you fail totally in proving this claim! I listed so many major buffs, besides all the smaller ones I added later, you posted an outdated list and wrote something like 6 nerfs, half of them questionable (butchering Trapper/Doc) or minor things.
I'll post again a list of major killer buffs / survivor nerfs and ask you to do the same (about killer nerfs, survivor buffs). I'll even add some of the nerfs myself! And then we can discuss if it got easier or more difficult for killers:
+ Freddy Rework - Nurse Rework (questionable, since her range addons were actually broken, but whatever)
+ Doctor Rework - Spirif "Nerfs" (they were so tiny, but whatever)
+ Cannibal Rework - Hillbilly Rework
+ Plague & Clown adjustmens - Pig nerfs due to introduction of EGC
+ EGC + Closable Hatch ?
+ Toolbox Nerfs - Ruin nerf (althoug thats more like a neutral change or even buff)
+ Inst-Heal removal ?
+ Exhaustion Changes ?
+ Undetectable status effect - Myers detectable with Spine Chill / Premonition (but overall it's a net positive for stealth killers)
+ Map reworks ?
+ Undying + Tinkerer Buff - Pop Timer reduction (although that reduction barely makes any difference)
There, eleven impactful changes that made the life for killers significantly easier. Now it's your turn to fill the right column. I'll be waiting.
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And insulting someone does?
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I think you are overrating the impact of SWF a bit, to be honest. Sure there are swat teams out there which can destroy nearly every killer, but they are rare, and they could do so even without comms. They are just insanely good players. Still SWF is harder to beat, thats for sure, but a well coordinated teams of randoms can also be difficult to handle. SWF tend to be way more altruistic, esp. casual ones, not wanting to leave someone behind. You can exploit that as a killer. SWF can be very strong, and will have the edge over weaker killers, but on average it's not op. It really comes down to the individual skill of the swf members. If anything, having to face four coordinated skillful survivors (not meaning comms here, but general game sense!) with a weak killer is OP, but that has nothing to do with SWF. Comms are by no means a sure path to victory. If you miscommunicate via your comms, you will do more harm then good (have proven that multiple times in my games with my wife xD).
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Well, take a team without any means of communication in this game, on whatever skill level they play.
Then, give them communication. IF you dont believe that their performance, on whatever skill level they play, is improving, i think you are very underrating the impact of swf.
also with your same argument, moris didn´t need a change, because not every killer used them. Sure, there were the one that hooktunnel of the first hook, but they were rare, and maybe could have won without the mori.
Something unbalanced is not balanced through being rare.
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First af all, you are mixing SWF with comms now. Sure swf nearly always will have comms, but the issue lies in using the comms, not in playing as swf. Even randoms can have comms if they coordinate it in pre-game lobby. And regarding comms, you have no way to prevent this, bc it is out of scope of the game.
Of course their perfomance will increase with comms, why should I deny that? But I question the implication that this "comm upgrade" makes them op (again, in a general sense). It doesn't, bc comms cannot compensate skill or game sense and bc miscommunication happens. And really good survivor teams do not even need comms to destroy you as a killer, even with 4 randoms.
Moris needed this change bc the promoted very unhealthy gameplay (aka tunnel-for-mori). If all killers would always have played it "fair", this change would not have been necessary. With SWF alone, there is no "unfair" usage, that "unfair" usage gets introduced with comms, again. And even then, it's just not as unhealthy as "unfair" mori usage was. And, to repeat myself, there's just no way to prevent comms.
So we have to live with it, swf with comms is a thing, sometimes op in the right survivor hands, but on average manageable (imo). It won't go away, it cannot be fixed (the comms), it won't be removed (the swf part) (bc that would really kill the game).
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So its ok when survivors spammed BNPs and Instahaels before they got nerfed but when its the killers turn it has to be done on the DL to avoid this? I hope this is the case with keys then too, if this is the devs new method of doing things. If they don't, well we know then where thier priorities lie. Also I never said moris where useless, I said they where WORTHLESS. Exact words and all that.
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Did I say anywhere that it was ok for survivors to spam BNP / Instaheal? No I didn't, and I was and I am against such shenanigans. I just described a scenario where the devs patch both mori and key changes together in a PTB, and what that might cause, namely spamming moris (and keys of course) until the patch finally kicks in, the same thing that happened with BNP / Insta-Heals:
"As soon as the info gets out that key/mori changes will be tested on next PTB, some killer would begin to spam their moris in their trial, how much fun would that be ... just look at the insta-heal addon changes, lobbies were full of insta-medkits before the changes finally kicked in."
Since the devs decided to bring the mori nerfs by surprise, there wasn't any spamming of it (duh!). Don't know if that was the intention behind this little surprise, but it certainly prevented us all from having mori round after mori round. And since I'm quite confident that the key changes might be big enough to require a PTB before going live, I'm expecting to see many, many keys in my lobbies until the changes kick in. As a matter of fact, I feel that the rate of keys in my trials has already increased. I got way more ppl taking a key with them, late-switching to them or running plunderes to find some. Don't have any numbers, though.
Am I ok with survs bringing their keys or looting chests to find them more frequently? Hell no, I hate going against well organized teams with a key. I had the misfortune to experience three survivors weaseling themselves out of the game with the help of a key quite some times, which is the most unjust thing for me when playing killer, totally robbing the game from me with the use of one single item. I'm really looking forward to the key changes, hoping that the these unfair multi-man hatch escapes will no longer be possible, or at least way more difficult. But I totally understand that bigger changes need to be tested before going live with them, which likely will apply to the key chances. So I'll take it as it is and will endure countless key games if thats really what's going to happen, until the changes will be finally there. Who knows, maybe the devs will surprise us with the key changes as well, without any PTB involved. I won't complain then (as long as the changes are not a total buggy mess, that is).
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"The devs are lazy, do not care for their community / only care for their money."
This attitude is just plain stupid.
As a professional developer I can't feed my family with 'care for the community' why the hell do you think they're working 10+ hours a day coding? It's for money. Bottom line.
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The change is lazy..there's no getting around that..they had a chance to make these better for the game and actually be a part of it but let it slip by just to take the low road..so people like myself are annoyed they acted like these changes were to be of higher quality
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It absolutely is, but that does not hinder many scrubs in this forum to repeat it again, and again, and again .... as if it gets any more true by repeating.
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Where did any dev imply something like this? All the devs said in this whole affair was explaining why they did not nerf keys as well, with perfectly valid reasons. The thing you are claiming is an illusion of yourself, mate.
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Well, don't missunderstand me but Keys and Moris have been a discussion topic from a while ago... but hear, mori's and keys have been addressed almost simultaneously, then they nerfed Mori's. Which don't missunderstand me, it was needed since killing everyone without hooks was OP, but if we let's say put it on a schedule, like BHVR does (or the way they tell us that they work with) then keys should have been addressed and changed a while ago but first they changed insta-heals, wich they needed to change of course but keys hadn't been changed at all, in the meanwhile Syringe's received two changes. You understand? When something needs to be addressed quickly, the devs have been putting excuses when they have showed that they can do it. Yes, I get the point, it's not easy to do but they have reworked entire add-ons that came way after keys.
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An illusion eh? So they have not been talking of this for months..saying they're tossing ideas around..just to change a 1 to a 2..perfectly reasonable to feel miffed , perhaps think before speaking
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Its less the devs are lazy, and more where they choose to focus thier effort sometimes. As in mori's they decided to just change a number. Wheras the keys are going to get an actual rework with actual new animations. So they are being lazy towards one item and not the other. Which is again, another bit of perception that feels like killers are not as important to the devs as survivors.
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With The game of walls unmoved and objects unstoppable is a paradox It really matters little. But,then again you don't mind throwing shade at people, so take a bit of what you dish-out.
You will stick to your guns and the people who agree with you will not matter what..
And vis versa for me and whoever agrees with me.
But, then again It seems everyone in these forums suffers from "Russian lady with Genie" disorder. Where It is more about making each other misarble then anything else.
So,I will leave It with this..They need to add a grinder to the game so people can at least get some points back for nerf/dead items cause I still got crap from when the Moon was a thing in this game. And I am sure the anger would be lessen If something could be done with what is now "unless" to a point.
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Keys can be very impactful in some matches, sure, but there are also way enough trials were they do nothing. So I'm kinda diasagreeing that keys should have been "adressed quickly". Sure they still could have done that earlier in place of some other bigger change like killer reworks. But the devs did not do so and deemed other things to be morte important than that. We cannot change the past, so it's futile to go on with more "but what if they had ..". Let's be happy the keys are finally lokked at and will get a rework soon(TM), that's all that counts, really.
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Yes they stated that they are looking into both. But they neither teased anything about it nor did they claim to have found a super coll solution. In fact they didn't say ANYTHING about a possible solution (as mostly). If you still got your hopes high after that, then indeed it was an illusion from your side.
Another thing I want to point out: We do not know whether the devs were really going the "lazy way" and just implemented the current change without second thoughts, or whether they tested multiple implementation and then choose this "lazy" implementation to be the best one. I'm betting on the second option, you likely on the first. Maybe there's a question about that in the next Q&A, who knows.
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Like I wrote in my previous response to another person, we do not know how much effort went into this mori change. Say, if they tested multiple mori solutions for like 3 weeks, and then decided that this current, simple change works the best for them, it was hardly a "lazy" change. But it would still look the same as an effortless numbers change as many in this forum claim happened (without better knowledge of course).
Also this whole argument of "they (seemingly) did not take much time for this change so killers are not seen as important" is pretty dumb to me. The amout of time a fix / change takes is a bad indicator for measuring the dedication of the devs to do changes for/against any side. It has way more to do with the overall difficulty of fixing / changing a given thing.
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Sorry, I have no clue what you are talking about.
But about a way to recycle unused / useless items, addons and offerings, I'm totally behind it! Either selling them back for some little BP or "crafting" from lesser rarity to higher rarity, both would be a really nice solution for me. I'm chronically low on BP offerings, so having a way to maybe turn the useless fog offerings into BP ones would really be nice.
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We can't foresee the future either, the devs have promised keys changes way before the second mori's existed, and no, we can't be happy about keys being changed, after all there are a lot of unfulfilled promises from BHVR side.
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As far as I know they never stated that they are actively testing stuff out before, like they are doing now (or claim to do now, if you will). Sure when asked about possible key changes, they said it's a thing being considered, but thay do so with nearly every suggestion.
I'm confident this change will come soom(TM). The devs perfectly know the stance of the comunity regarding all that mori-key issue, so they wouldn't push out mori changes without having a plan what to do about keys. Releasing mori changes without having a clear plan about keys would be a very dumb move in this situation, and despite what many posters in this forum believe, the devs are smart enough to avoid this.
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