Hi Almo, how come Decisive strike hasn't been nerfed yet? Forgive me if I come off as rude
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True, but as good as pop is, it will only slow down the survivors and 90% of the time it will only get to regress 20 seconds worth of gen time. This is good, but not enough sometimes if you have to play around DS. At most, you will only get to use pop 5 or 6 times in a match. DS may have one use, but one use can be all it needs to keep the "tunneled" survivor alive for a little while longer or for the rest of the match along with helping the team out by stunning the killer for 5 seconds.
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One of the worst things about DS is just how strong it is, as long as at least 1 player is running it in a match. If one player is running it in a match, they get the obsession, when there's an obsession, I have to tailor my entire playstyle to the assumption that all players are running DS. This effectively gives the other 3 survivors an extra perk, giving them 5 perks in all.
This is something that the devs cannot understand, because it takes actually playing the game and being good at it to get, and it's something that a spreadsheet won't tell them. It's the same thing with OoO and their lame excuse as to why OoO is fine, ya it may not improve survival chances of the individual survivor running it, but it vastly improves the survival rate of the other 3 survivors in the game.
It's nice that the devs stream their 2 hour gametime a week, but there are major balance issues at the higher end of the game that they are simply too inexperienced at the game to fully comprehend, and this lack of understanding is magnified by their utter refusal to listen to players that actually play their game. This actually explains basically every single design decision they make in regards to perks / addons / offerings / items and why these things are so inconsistent.
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They need to change the perk that you cannot progress your objective while you have DS immunity. It makes zero sense that survivor is rewarded with 60 second immunity after getting hooked (failing). You aren't being tunneled if you can repair generators. It should be that survivor uses that 60 seconds to find safe spot to heal and MAYBE clean totems, but repairing generators is ridiculous.
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Please at least try to defend your argument.
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At most, pop can work 5 or 6 times in a match. All it does is slow the survivors down a little bit if they are decent to good survivors.
DS while being able to be used only once, it can stack on all survivors and one use is all it needs. The 5 second stun is incredibly powerful if you also count the time it took for the killer to get to grab the DS user. Think of this the way Scott Jund put it as he made a great example of how powerful 5 seconds can be for even a decent team of survivors. He said "Think about it this way, for every second the survivors play vs every second the killer plays, multiply the survivors seconds by 4 since there are 4 survivors." It lets us know just how strong survivors can be since over the course of a game that second turns into 4 to 8 to 12 every second there are 4 survivors alive. This also lets us know how much progress survivors can get done on anything.
Ok good to know you play killer and have seen what DS can do, but it's important to know that it does more than just that. Just its existence makes killers think twice about picking up a recently hooked survivor if there is an obsession. Maybe playing some more killer could help you understand how lame DS can be at times.
Tunneling is a strategy that is used by many skillful killers. I myself do this sometimes. I will admit, tunneling someone off hook and trying to mori them (or at least hook them twice) isn't exactly "skill" and they could definitely learn a few things. You can't just tell people to git gud and stop tunneling. What else is the killer supposed to do? Good killers will only tunnel the obsession to slug them if it is convenient, they will only slug them at most. It is not usually their fault for being in a position to tunnel a survivor, and remember it's not like killers have that many options unlike survivor. DS is still an issue for good killers and even the best of killers.
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That is reassuring to hear, but where did you get this info from?
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I believe this was from the recent stream
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True I was wrong about how many times DS was changed, but I said I was "pretty sure" because I wasn't 100% certain. I did indeed, forget about the other nerfs because it has been quite a while since we have even remembered them.
The usual arguments that apparently "counter" DS include slugging the DS user, or to "git gud and stop tunneling". There aren't real counters to it. Why? Because you are basically letting the survivors get away for free and letting them heal or do gens. I disagreed with many of these posts because some of them were just wrong. I am not saying no because it is a case of "I'm right and you're wrong", I am disagreeing to prove a point and invoke thorough discussion.
If you would be so kind as to list all the "counters" to DS so that we can have a real discussion, that would be very much appreciated.
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Thanks, I will look around for it.
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Excuse me but What's the point to say Almo everytime? Just because he's on the designed perk team doesn't mean he's the only one. Give the guy a break.
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Maybe, but this is the same guy who nerfed pop because you could spend too much time doing other things and still have it available. He is also the guy who has mentioned: "clown is underrated". I say his name because someone else did the same and got a reply from him. However it was a shot in the dark really, I mentioned his name because I was hoping he would reply to this thread like the other person. I am kind of desperate for an answer and I knew I shouldn't have expected a reply, but it was worth a try. You have to admit, the design team could learn a few things about their game though. But for now. we will continue to have faith in them, I am sure they can turn things around.
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No it doesn’t. It’s so situational that it’s basically a wasted perk slot 95% of the time which is why I never use it. If you can’t work around it as the killer then you’re too in the heat of the moment and not thinking clearly enough. DS is part of the game. You need to adjust to its existence or play something else. Plenty of killers are getting 4Ks with it just the way it is.
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You yourself may never use it, but I guarantee you that most people do especially at high ranks. Usually, I would say that I stay calm under pressure and think clearly as well. It is not a wasted perk most of the time because you still guarantee that there is an obsession. This is enough to make the killer slug a recently hooked person at most which is more beneficial to the survivors since the killer misses out on a hook state. I have adjusted to its existence, and I love this game so why would I play something else? Just because killers still get 4k's all the time doesn't mean this perk is fine even when dealing with it.
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I really don't see DS as hugely problematic until more than 2 survivors have it in the same trial. But that could be said about a lot of perks like Unbreakable or Adrenaline for instance.
There has to be some sort of anti-tunnel mechanism in place. I've played in tournaments where DS was banned and the kill rates are staggering. Believe me, you don't want to play against a good killer who happens to be sweating when there is no DS in play.
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Tunneling is technically the most powerful thing you can do as a killer though. I will admit though if the killer plays well and tunnels effectively, it can be kind of sucky for a survivor that doesn't know what they are doing.
Having an anti-tunneling mechanic seems pretty counterproductive to the killer when their objective is to kill as many people as they can and as fast as possible before the gens are done. If that was in place, I don't think the game would do so well. Killers already are fighting an uphill battle in the average match. An anti-tunneling mechanic would be a huge detriment and steer even more people away from playing killer.
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That's false! The current DS is quite a beefy BUFF to the previous version. Now it ALWAYS activates after being hooked for a minute. Many times in previous versions you would not get the stuff off because you had to wiggle a lot for the skillcheck so close hooks completely got rid of DS and allowed the killer to tunnel.
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I’m also at red ranks and I just don’t think DS is as common of a perk as you say it is.
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Love it when you can bring out the receipts LMAO
I just have to laugh at these type of threads anymore. They are pure entertainment at this point.
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Im actually all for permanent obssession perk or no. I see far, far too many killers exclusively tunnel through bt when theres no obssession. Even when someone else throws themselves in the way to try and stop it
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Well, as I say they're a team so I do believe the entire team must agree to certain change so the others devs needs to be blamed if we are going to talk about it. As a person who sometimes had to put my face for other people mistakes. It's kind of bothersome.
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I like how you're addressing the thread to this one guy, as if he is the spokesman for the entire game, and must answer for all design decisions, just because he posts here occasionally.
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While I agree with you for the most part, there are certain elements of the perk that are very frustrating. I had a team of survivors that all were running BT, DS, Unbreakable, and Dead Hard. They'd rush the hook and would then body block with BT. When I didn't swing they'd block my path and then when I'd down them after the 15 seconds they would use the unbreakable to 99 percent and have a team mate pick them up. How do you play against that?
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Lol. I can't remember the last time I was DS'd besides games where I'm curbstomping the other team and just feel like eating it.
Let them run off unless they are trying to do a gen, totem, or heal right in your face. Then slug them.
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Sounds like a very coordinated effort and a bunch of perks doing what they're supposed to do? Seriously, that's 4 survivors all running 4 perks and all trying to do the same thing vs 1 killer: If that doesn't seem fair to you, I don't know what to tell you. I think they earned it.
If anything, they should buff perks like Breakout, for the sake of variety. I too am bored by how everyone runs meta perks, but it's only because non-meta perks are so weak by comparison.
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They earned what exactly? At that point they're not playing the game they're wasting time by playing badly. The problem is that the perk is being used as a crutch. I agree that it's good for overall health but it's also bad for the state of the game when abused. When the perk is used aggressively by all 4 survivors the combination is broken and unhealthy for the state of the game.
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Maybe mechanic was the wrong word. Anti-tunnel incentive. There has to be something in place to make killers think twice.
Killers aren't facing an uphill battle at red ranks. It's ridiculously easy most of the time with enough experience. Would the game be more or less ok if low tier killers didn't have to worry about DS? Sure. It would probably still be playable. But that's a killer balance issue, not a DS issue. A good Nurse or Spirit with carte blanche to tunnel is a disaster.
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Ive played lots of killer matchs as well as survivor and dont see ds as an issue. Pop can actually be used up to say 10 times.
In regards to tunneling is used by skillful killers makes me laugh. I dont tunnel and still 3k (usually let 4th go).
Yes it could become a problem if all 4 players use it but in my red rank experience that has happened maybe twice.
At the end of the day way to many killers would rather cry about ds just like way to many survivors would cry about noed instead of playing around it. Ds isn't truly the issue, the issue is and has been gen speeds. If gens were slower the 5 second stuns wouldnt cause killers such issues.
But lets Say they nerf ds, what nerf do you want? How would you like the perl to function?
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This has me wondering, I wonder what would happen if using decisive strike lowered your gen repair speed for the rest of the match or a long set time at least? Even just a bit.
Suddenly making a survivor use it could actually be beneficial- but not so much that you want to kill them, and survivors would feel less obligated to use it immediately or half hazardly.
It could still be used for clutch escapes and everything too it wouldn't change any of that.
"But that would offer a reward for tunnelling survivors!" not really the amount wouldn't be that much, and you still lose a bout one hook so even a 5% negative to gen repair would be about that same amount of time to the match as a whole. I mean a toolbox does more in a few seconds than that would do like all game if you used it immediately. Also, could make it so if a survivor DS's and is downed in the next 10 seconds their DS resets on the ground so picking them up is another stun before it becomes inactive for the rest of the game, punishing you even harder for just trying to tunnel.
Obviously there is like a thousand problems with my idea here, but my point is I feel there is at least SOMETHING that could be done if we at least were willing to explore new ideas. Problem is no one wants to even talk about it cause someone comes in and has a screaming fit anytime someone tries to fire off ideas; like they actually think a half baked one like mine above would ever happen. It wouldn't, but it creates an actual discussion at least.
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Look at the change https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Decisive_Strike
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