http://dbd.game/killswitch
Otz's idea that you shouldn't be able to use DS when all 5 gens been completed
This idea came from Otz when I watched his stream yesterday. What do you think of it?
Comments
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What's his reasoning behind that idea ?
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I'm of the opinion, 100% that it should not activate during the End Game Collapse, although I'm not sure I would go so far as to say it won't activate at all when all five Generators are done. If they got all five Generators done and were able to 99 the gates without being stopped, just to setup a DS to then get everyone out, it would be overkill. Do you see where I'm going with this? If they had the time to do all that, they sure as heck didn't need the DS to make the trick work.
But I agree with him that it should be prevented from resulting in an easy 4 escape just by saving one for the EGC.
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He didn't really give a reason to it. It was an answer to someone's question during the stream which he answered (he just answered without giving the reason for the idea)
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You probably need to keep in mind that the devs will most likely change the EGC in the future so it "regresses" right after all the gens has been completed, so imagine that we have the original function of the EGC when it first was announced.
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Come with your unique idea not from ...bla bla bla
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I can tell you his reasoning. It is a matter of timing. Some Red Rank Survivors sit on their DS for the end game specifically. I've seen and experienced it first hand. It is why I tend to force them to use the Perk early. If a DS goes off during ECG, pretty much everyone left will get out of the match. In fact, the tactic of NOT using the DS early game when you can is quite common. I do that myself. Consider the value:
- After my first hook I get caught again and purposely don't use it and take my hook with the end game in mind.
- In fact, I'm planning on taking a protection hit at the right end game time and going down so I can trigger it then.
- Because I didn't use it earlier, the Killer simply assumes I don't have it (which is often a safe assumption).
As a SWF we all know exactly, using the 5th Perk: Comms, when all the Generators are coming up. Some of us are already getting to gates to start powering them. The person who kept the DS on tap all game is ready to run interference if need be. This sounds like an elaborate tactic and I know some of you are saying this clearly isn't happening. I assure you that it is happening. :)
The timing trick, which tournament squads know how to do, is getting that 2nd Hook RIGHT before they turn on the Generators. Thus the timer won't run out and when unhooked you are there to take the 3rd down and DS at the clutch moment.
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I think it's a core problem of DS. The DS stun gives 20 metres of distance, which a 115% Killer would need 33,33 seconds to catch back up to. In this timeframe, the Survivor covers an additional 132m distance, so if a gate is within approximately 150m and its either opened or 99ed, the Survivor is pretty much guaranteed an escape with no meaningful input from the Killer.
Personally I'm not a huge fan of scenarios where one side's input is 100% meaningless, but I know many people defend this kind of thing because they enjoy it, and I understand that, too.
I would wholeheartedly agree the addition of several limitations for DS, for example that it can't trigger after the gens are done. In it's current form, especially when paired with UB, it makes for dumb and unfun gameplay.
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Add all the Endurance perks (BT, Soul Guard, MoM, etc) to that.
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Me personally, I think DS should be changed as follows:
- DS activates every time you are unhooked and can be used multiple times in a game.
- The timer, which never pauses for anything, is 30/45/60 depending on the level of the Perk.
- DS deactivates the moment you do anything other than run, vault, or go in/out of a locker.
- Thus you cannot self-care, heal, be healed, repair, open gates, etc. without turning it off.
- DS will not activate during the ECG, but if activated prior the timer will run normally.
That's it. This compromise prevents the Perk from being used to do "other" things and makes it entirely for gaining some ground and counter the tunneling tactic a bit. The trade off is you get to use it more than once.
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That won't fix the most problematic issues with DS. The main issue is, that DS kinda gives survivors a form of 60s invincibility to do regless things and either force the DS or a slug on the killer. A good example is hook rushing, or doing other objectives right in the killers face. Maybe even to provoke a grab or search immediatly for a chase etc. Especially combined with other not that problematic perks like Unbreakable or BT, DS becomes broken.
This would only fix those issues in the endgame and maybe adress the fact, that a killer can't do much as soon gens are powered and to many survivor alive than play very defensive. But I would argue it's more crutual to adress the abusability of DS in general. The activation timer should be lost under certain circumstances as soon the survivor goes back to action like unhooking, cleansing Totems, fixing gens etc.
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It would make it a bit more balanced. I doubt the devs would go for it, because they tend to favor exploitable but simple rather than convoluted and balanced.
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I would tend to agree with the idea
Though I don't know if they would put it in word for word
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I don't think getting healed should turn it off. Or at least not instantly. If it did, then you'll have moments where you get tunneled and can't use DS because your well meaninged but dumb teammate healed you for half a second. I could see an argument for not turning off for self healing as well. Like say, you get unhooked vs a stealth killer, you don't think they're still nearby so you start healing yourself, then they come around the corner and stab you. Maybe it turns off if you go back to the healthy?
It wasn't in your list but I would also assume that dropping a pallet wouldn't turn it off.
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If you play a killer at red ranks and you face 4 ds every single game, you'll find the answer
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I'm a red rank killer since 2017/2018. Not sure what you're on about.
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One of the Primary issues with DS is that it presents killers with a No-Win Scenario:
Gates are Powered, Survivor with DS is unhooked and then downed again within 30 meters of an open gate, leaving the killer with 2 choices - Either let the survivor crawl out the gate, or take the DS, get stunned for 5 seconds and the survivor runs out the gate anyways.
If the survivor also brought in Unbreakable, Deliverance, and Soul Guard... it's a hands down No-Win scenario no matter what the killer does, unless of course they brought in a Mori, and the survivor with DS is on their final hook. DS alone has been presenting killers with this kind of No-Win scenario ever since it's release, and even after its 60 second timer rework, but still remains a thorn in killers sides because of how hopeless it feels trying to net a kill in the end game against it, especially with sweaty SWF teams.
By disabling DS once the gates are powered, the No-Win scenario safety net that DS presents would be gone, and rescuing hooked allies would require more strategy and teamwork. Regardless of whether or not DS gets changed this way, survivors still have a plethora of other 2nd chance perks and items that can turn the endgame into a no win scenario for killers, but the majority of them require teamwork to pull off effectively, unlike DS, which typically gives a lone survivor a free escape in the endgame if the killer doesn't have a Mori.
This is likely Otz's reasoning behind the idea, and in all honesty, it's not a bad idea when you know what it would do for balancing the endgame.
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Agreed... Pallet dropping should have been on the exception list. However, I'm firm in my opinion that healing is OUT. No healing in the Killer's face. If you feel comfortable enough to stop and heal, then you have waived your right to minimum safe distance.
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Yeah you already told us that. You're not sure what you're on about, you have no idea what the reasoning is of the idea. Should we explain the meaning of life while we at it?
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Learn how to read. I asked if OTZ explained HIS reasoning behind the idea. I couldn't care less about your take on it as you're obviously just bitter. Bye now.
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good idea since adrenaline is a thing
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DS gives 16m distance. 5 second stun, but 1 second is spent in an animation getting off the Killer's back and beginning to run. So really it's only 4 seconds. Your point still stands though.
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Oh thanks, I wasn´t even aware of that. The more you know!
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Do the objective, lose your perk.
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That's never been substantiated, let's not let rumors turn into false promises.
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It's not a rumour. It's me speculating. I assume they're going change EGC in the direction they were heading for when they first announced it.
Post edited by AggressiveFTW on0 -
I think that healing other people should turn off your DS. If you feel safe enough to heal someone else then bye DS. However... sometimes you get unhooked and your teammate instantly goes for the heal even if it is a really dumb idea. You straight up can't control your teammate doing something like that. You shouldn't just straight up lose access to your perk if your rescuer taps M1 on you for a fraction of a second.
I don't think the person who got unhooked should be punished for their teammate doing something dumb. Or at the very least we should attempt to minimize situations where that happens.
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This is a fair point.
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Yeah, that's why I suggested for receiving healing (either from teammates or yourself) have DS turn off once you become healthy. If you've managed to heal back up, you probably aren't being tunneled. Then again... there are a lot of insta down killers who could take advantage of that... so maybe not. Honestly I don't know about that one.
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No
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I'm down with the healing from others, but not the Self-Care. That would have to disable it because that isn't an accidental being pushed out of DS, it would be a choice.
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The EGC was introduced to remove hatch standoffs and survivor holding the game hostage after repairing all the generators.
It was never meant as a tool to directly help the killer
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I don't like that idea. Just because it makes the perk completely useless if you've not been hooked until that point and that's not fair.
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I'd rather Mori's on death hook be base-kit as a counter to DS. Survivors would have to be a little more careful and less brash when making their decisions.
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It's pretty unfair to get hooked for the first time after 5 gens and then get tunneled off the hook because there's no anti-tunnel mechanic in place as a result of all gens being done. 100% confirmed kill for every game with no effort needed.
Plus, this would just further encourage aggressive DS and BT use, rather than use to actually counter tunneling.
I love Otz, but this idea is bad.
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Otz, you mean that one streaming killer main who will proxy camp at 4-5 gens left - slug etc and MAYBE does "lose" (more than 1 survivor escaping) a game once in a week and then throws a big tantrum about his loss? And on top he will constantly blame everyone else when he FOR ONCE plays survivor and dies - yeah devs defo shouldn't listen to any "ideas" from that dude LOL
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Embarrassing post.
There are dozens of videos of OTZ getting outplayed and complimenting the person(s).
There are dozens of videos of him losing to glitches/weird stuff and him laughing it off.
Can you link me to some of these egregious instances, please?
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Just watch 99% of his streams LMAO You must be blind if you can't see the obvious. But I didn't expect any other reaction in this killer-biased forum with all the little Otz fanbois in it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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How does completing 5 gens stops the killer from tunneling?
Also is this just the only change or one of the many changes he proposed?
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You can prove your point with a couple of links - I'll watch them.
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That's the thing no one faces 4 ds every game - he doesn't show you every game he plays. As a red rank killer I sure don't see 4 ds every game, rare when I even get ds'ed and I even go looking to get ds'ed at times to get it out of the way.
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You're forced, most of the time in EGC, to hook trade but the game robs you of it so you tunnel, and get DSed so they get a free escape no matter what you did. I'm not saying that's not tunneling, but it's forced tunneling, and not doing so allows them to get out anyway. It's a lose-lose, and anything that causes that in this game is poorly designed.
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True, but 3 or 2 is too much depending the time on the match. Heck, even one can be determined on either a win or a loss somethimes.
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This is basically old DS with a very minor limit that makes the killer literally unable to hook you after any given hook, but STRONGER. Absolutely not. DS was nerfed in the way it was nerfed for a reason, and while it is still not ideal it is MUCH better with a timing window limitation that lets killers avoid DS if they play cleverly.
You need to understand this version of DS you are proposing was the lowest point of DBD like... ever... and was one of the direct causes of the 2017 killer strike that nearly killed the game.
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Imagine fully disabling perk when you are still in the game with no guarantee of escaping. After all gens are done, you are still required to do a little more work before the round is ended. So that's stupid.
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I would honestly like to know the win rate of all the red ranked killers that complain about ds or bt or unbrakable or dead hard. Like otz suggest this change while having a win rate close to what, 80%, more?
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Dude posts vids about 50 4k's (or 3k and a hatch) in a row with various killers, so it might be higher for him.
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I think it would be a nice change
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I'm not sure you read my post very carefully as I did not remove the timer. The only thing I changed from the current design is that the Survivor isn't allowed to interact with the environment aside from running away and hiding. And I made it function one more time. This not the original design; I know because I looked.
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Imagine DS actually become something that completely stopped tunnelling but you couldn’t use it offensively. Every killer in the game would be crying
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I wouldn't be. I would be just fine with it. While there are Killers who whine, most don't. The Forum here is a like a Funhouse Mirror, skewing perception of Killers and Survivors alike. Let me lay something out:
- The Forum is NOT the DbD community.
- At best the folks at the Forum are a tiny minority of the people who actually play the game.
- Most people who play the game don't post here, come here, nor will they ever post anything on social media.
- The people who come here to vent a spleen are simply more motivated by angst than most people who are content.
- If you do an experiment (I did) and count every game, salt at the end, who does it, etc. you will find most people don't.
- In fact, you will find that more of your games are populated by decent or at least neutral people by a large margin.
So let me correct you on something, not every Killer in the game is crying, nor is every Survivor whining. It is a very vocal minority that makes it seem that way if you give undo weight to this Forum.
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