http://dbd.game/killswitch
Why can't the killer see the wiggle bar?
I've been wondering this for a couple days now. It wouldn't exactly be meta shattering for a killer to know how close a survivor is to wiggling.
I think at some point the devs said they wanted the "carrying a survivor to the hook" section of a match to be somewhat risky for killer ( could be wrong, don't quote me on this ).
Even if the above is true, I still don't see the harm in being able to see the wiggle bar. Like I said, it wouldn't destroy the current meta. It could be a neat quality of life change, which could be a over the weekend experiment to see of it actually does affect matches.
Comments
-
I honestly feel the same way about "Why can't Freddy see the timers for Survivors to fall asleep?" "Why can't Plague see how much more she needs to puke on survivors?" (I don't think Pig should see the timer because that would encourage camping the boxes and that's a really bad strategy on her). Neither of those things would be meta shattering just like killers seeing the wiggle bar. I'm sure the developers have their reasoning, I'm just not sure what it is.
30 -
Am I the only weirdo that counts in his head the wiggle progress as killer?
It takes approx 20 seconds of full wiggling from a survivor (assuming no perks) to have them escape. I count in my head as soon as I pick someone up...
3 -
nope you're not the only one, I don't count the seconds though I count the amount of wiggles
10 -
I count the survivor grunts. 10 grunts and they break out. I also like saying the word grunts.
19 -
At some point plague could see the degree of infection, I think it was on PTB. Also, pre-nerf legion could see Deep Wounds counter.
Having the wiggle bar available for killers reduce a lot of the risk involved with carrying a survivor. You can always make the optimal decision to drop if you see the progress bar completing before you can reach the hook. It also invalidates the purpose of Breakout. RN you can be hinted of the existence of the perk by the survivor moving at a higher speed, but if the killer could see the fast progress they could always take the best course of action.
Similar thing happened to aforementioned examples of plague and legion. For the plague, she could choose between puking or M1 and the progress bar just made the choice a low risk one. And pre-nerf legion playstyle was completely changed for being unfun to go against.
5 -
I count the number of cycles of grunts Survivors make. It takes about ten grunt cycles for them to break free (eleven if you have Iron Grasp equipped).
At the very least, I think that the ability to see the wiggle progress bar should be added to Mad Grit (largely because I use Mad Grit as part of my build :P ).
8 -
Is there a special reason, why killers can´t see the wiggle progress bar? This makes perks that affect the wiggling kinda weird. Since killers have to take a wild guess how long there is still left.
1 -
They break free after 11 grunts. You're welcome.
3 -
Probably the same reason why you can't see how much stalk a Michael / Ghostface has. It defeats the purpose of certain mechanics in the game, whether that is 99% insta-downs, running wiggle perks like flip-flop, or saboing hooks.
Information is powerful. Sometimes, you just have to approximate.
6 -
Then why do gens have a progress bar? Shouldn´t survivors also take a wild guess on how much there is still left?
1 -
Bc survivors are the ones fixing the gens? If you're the perfoming the action, you can see its progress. The only exception to this rule is another survivor healing you. Anyway, every piston from the gen at full speed correspond to 22% of completion.
6 -
They usually make a certain noise a few seconds before they wiggle off. I know when they do that, its go time.
0 -
So survivors have more advantages over killers because reasons.
Killers have no progress bars at all. When they take Iron Grip, Agitation and Mad Grit, they have to guess if they make it to the hook. Despite taking 3 perks that all affect the wiggle time.
3 -
Again, the killer is not the one wiggling. Breakout affects other survivor's wiggle, but the user of the perk cannot see the bar either.
5 -
Imagine for a second, that survivors wouldn't have any progress bars at all. Just like killers. No gen repair, healing, wiggling, sabotaging or cleansing progress bar.
Always guessing. Especially while using perks like We'll make it.
2 -
Let's be honest. You're playing killer. Would you be able to pay attention to something like a wiggle bar when you've got a human wiggling on your shoulder in your peripheral vision?
2 -
I count the grunts; it's just over 8 grunts until they wiggle off.
0 -
Killers used to be able to see back in beta but it was removed cause it made carrying a survivor virtually riskless.
4 -
Oof yeah. If killers could see the wiggle progress, what's stopping them from dropping a survivor at 99% if they can't reach a hook?
Better to slug than be stunned and give the survivor a second chance. Anyone with half a brain would do that.
Now, as a Plague main I do wish she could see infection timers. Or at the very least, that they will address her various bugs and issues please.
2 -
Whats stopping them? Uhm the auto break free once survivors reached 75% and killers try to drop them.
0 -
yeah, but he said the person performing the action. still the survivor on killers shoulder that is performing the wiggle action. or would you argue that for that case it would make sense for leader users to see everyone else's progress bars?
0 -
This thread now listed 8, 10, 11 grunts. Which one is correct?
2 -
Thats the point. Killer has to take a wild guess. Especially when he uses perks.
Why make it harder on purpose? The killer already has enough to juggle.
3 -
8.5, roughly.
0 -
So you wanna tell me that everyone is just throwing random wrong numbers?
0 -
But if you were consistant with that, survivors should not be able to see how much a downed survivor has already healed himself, thus not knowing how much he has to heal to pick him up. He didnt perform the action, after all.
0 -
Everyone is guessing. Thats how unreliable perks like Iron Grip, Agitation and Mad Grit are.
3 -
The exact number is 16 seconds (18 with Iron Grasp) assuming they wiggle as quickly as possible. They also gain 25% progression when you drop them. The problem with making the wiggle bar visible for killer is that is makes Flip Flop less useful, since they'll see you have it as soon as they pick you up. And honestly it's just not necessary. With how many hooks there are, wiggle escapes are very uncommon unless you're against a sabo squad.
1 -
So... Flip Flop meta now? I can´t remember that i´ve ever seen a survivor use that perk. Like... ever...
1 -
Where did I say that? It's a mediocre meme, so why make it worse?
2 -
Why can't survivor see highlighted hooks to killer?
1 -
Then what speaks against introducing the wiggle meter for killers?
0 -
They can. Just equip Sabotage.
0 -
That would be a big nerf to Flip Flop. Killers who takes the longer road to basement can instantly see the survivor has this perk and simply goes to the first hook instead.
1 -
Killers do have progress bars for actions they perform. Billy and Bubba can see their Chainsaw progress bar, Pyramid Head has Rites of Judgement and Cage progress bar, Doc has Static Blast and Shock Therapy progress bar, and the list goes on for individual powers.
Not only that but all killers have Hang progress bars while hooking survivors, they also have damage generators progress bars. The only general action performed by the killer that doesn't have a progress bar is kicking pallets. Where did you get the idea that killers have no progress bars?
5 -
What I did was show a counter example to his argument that survivors see eachother progress bars and, therefore, are at an innate advantage, not argue that users of Breakout, Leader, or whatever other perk that benefits teammates have access to that info.
1 -
Not just a nerf to flip flop but breakout as well, which would make me sad even if no one else uses it.
1 -
Then what speaks against killer having the wiggle progress bar?
0 -
Call it advanced techniques. Im also always counting, The exact timer is 16 seconds. The reason the game doesn't tell you is because this mechanic was added when Dbd and the team was a small pp on the market. And it didn't seem that relevant to give that information to the killer. Nowadays I would say that the killer shouldn't see it because if he gets greedy he should get punished. You make mistakes, learn from them and you adapt.
And for the mods: I said they WERE small pp's. Also it's just true, sorry for the way I like to explain my thoughts. Shoot me.
0 -
I answered that question twice, go back and read.
4 -
I think it would distract me. I've been playing long enough that my muscle memory just tells me when the survivor is going to wiggle free. Sometimes I know before I even start carrying them.
It would be interesting to add the bar, because I bet some killers would drop survivors thinking they're not going to make it to the hook.
0 -
Does this really even matter? When is the last time you picked up a survivor and didn’t have 73 different hooks you could make it to?
1 -
That's not a reason.
0 -
It matters if you have to hook survivors in the basement.
0 -
Killer shouldn't be spoon fed the wiggle bar information. Gauging how far you can go to hook someone is part of the guessing game and shouldn't be removed.
2 -
Interesting comment.
Btw, survivors get spoon fed information like what perks affect them, even before they affect them (huntress lullaby), when they are exposed, how long this takes, how long that takes, etc.
Because only survivors are supposed to get spoon fed, right?
0 -
This isn't a "killer vs survivor" post. I main killer, Hag and Trapper, I prefer killer, I'm generally biased toward killer buffs and survivor nerfs.
I also play survivor but find it incredibly easy compared to killer which kills the immersion for me, as a survivor I want to be scared of the killer but that is a rare event. I want to feel the need to run and hide from the killer not the shallow sense of accomplishment that comes from running them around the same rock. Very few killers are actually scary by design and that defeats the purpose of the game in my opinion.
With that out of the way...
What survivors can and can't see is irrelevant to the question posed.
The point being raised is should killers see the wiggle bar, as a killer I like some element of unknown and guesswork and to be spoon fed that info would further water down an already watered down game experience. Its not a buff that I think is good.
Do survivors have to much info gathering?
This is a different question and I'm inclined to say yes. There are so many reveal the killer aura perks that you can pretty much start generalising where the killer is for a large part of the match, watering down the fear and hence the game experience. Add in coms and you have a survival horror game where there are no surprises and you will likely survive, so what's the point of playing?
So would giving killers access to the wiggle bar information change the state of the game from a survivor perspective when it comes to information overload undermining scare factor? Not really. All it does it water down the killer experience.
Aura reading, sound cues and scratch marks are the key parts of killer information, making you an alert hunter, wiggle bar info just seems erroneous to me. That is my take on it regardless of whether or not I feel survivors currently have to much game info.
3 -
The point is, that survivors have a ton of information. They'll know that ruin is active or another hex perk and get a notification when it's cleansed. Not only by a sound notification, but also by that little sign on the right of their hud.
They get informed when they enter the terror radius, even before hearing the heartbeat. As long as the killer uses perks like overwhelming presence.
They get information on how far the gen progressed (that shouldn't be necessary) and how far the healing progressed (even when they don't perform the action). They get even informed that We'll make it is active and that it affects the heal speed.
This all breaks the immersion for survivors, but is ok.
Meanwhile killers have to take a wild guess if they make it to the hook after hitting a survivor. Which makes 4 perks useless or at least unreliable.
0 -
I agree but the point is taking the guess work out of killer doesn't fix the survivor issue.
The more effective solution would be to leave the guess work for killer and tone down the information for survivor.
Otherwise we end up in the current scenario which is bloated perks and mechanics that came in because the other had X perk/mechanic, its a "what-about-ism" kind of thinking that just leads to perk bloat and a watered down game experience.
I don't think killer is that hindered by not seeing the meter, I think survivor escapes from the killer would plummet due to being able to see how far along they are. Taking the planning and guesswork out of the game in generally is a bad thing.
1 -
I mean is this for a challenge or something? Literally run Agitation and Iron Grasp in that case - the one time either of these perks are ever going to be useful.
1
