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Psa for all noed haters:
Comments
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Yes, try to cleanse all 5 totems whilst hoping the killer has the perk and also sucks. That is the counterplay to NOED.
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"Sacrificing" a perk slot is not a killer action, it's a player choice.
You quote me on this: "Imagine if survivors were to capitalize on x amount of hooks the killer got in order to get the effect of a perk to proc."
But even then Soul Guard had 0 to do with what was being discussed, thus you are bringing up whataboutisms.
Also, why are you even bringing up scenarios in which survivors go down to No Ed? I never complained about No Ed. I am simply answering to the mod who thinks earning means sacrificing a perk slot. It's two different things. It is also why many good killers who don't use it frown upon it.
"Noed is rarely an issue for me."
Who said it was for anyone? Seriously. We're discussing it's activation mechanic, not it's effect.
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The core of your point was "what if survivors have perks that don't require being earned" your specific example is only now relevant because you don't want to admit you're wrong.
I was discussing noed in general since people are arguing it's unfair. I am arguing it isn't unfair.
You seem like the type to keep redefining the argument until you're right or the other person quits. So congrats, I'm bored and am tired of this topic. I'm not playing the definition game.
Have a good day, honestly.
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NOED is a Blue Turtleshell, in that you don't feel good about it, but you like the game more for it existing than not.
Like... the logic on why NOED exists is EXACTLY the same: You want to as a survivor just trash the killer, doing gens crazy fast with no one getting hooked, because that is the objective the game tells you to do, but if you do that the game isn't fun for anyone because the killer is getting stomped and your not really having many interactions. NOED forces the game to have a 'high point' moment for killers who can't play consistently. So in that sense, yes, it rewards bad play, but it does so in a way that makes the game better even if your against that player because you want at least SOMETHING to happen in the match.
Heck, we even have a Super Horn analogy here: If your a very skilled player rather than rushing out into first from the get go, you try to store a Horn so you have it when your in first later, which allows you to ignore the shell while STILL keeping the race interactive because the best player rather than going way off into the distance ahead is interacting with everyone as they get back to first.
Likewise, in DBD, eliminating or at least locating totems early is a really smart strategy which stops the gens from being done quiiiite as fast and gives the killer more time to interact with people or setup or whatever. It may not be the optimal strategy all the time (NOED is pretty rare now a days as most people understand its a bad perk) but if your worried about it you have a method of counter play that costs you almost nothing and just requires you to outplay the killer ever so slightly harder.
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basically d/s adren/noed /tinker/undying, meant to carry trash players, pure and simple
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but in terms of skill level variation that is balance
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This is the biggest reach for 'earning' something I have ever heard.
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You have 2 choices, do totems or do not do totems.
NOED is all about uncertainty, which is something that people do not like.
It feels like ppl want dbd to be more like 5 vs 5 tdm sometimes.
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I've advocated for this in the past. I still think it's a good idea. I would prefer that it wasn't constantly on the screen cluttering the User Interface. I just want a little notification that goes away after a few seconds each time one is cleared.
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Dude, the example I provided was literally ADRENALINE. A perk which requires ALL, not 1, not 2, not 3. ALL Gens to be completed.
That is the definition of earning. Not relying on the opposing team to complete their objective to get my perk's worth. Like what?
You wanna discuss no ed in general? Good. Discuss away. I am discussing words like "earned" being utilized to describe this perk's design choices.
No one is redefining the argument, you simply keep bringing up things (such as: Scenarios in which No Ed is "unfair", Opening gates against No ed" etc" Which I never even brought up.
I answered to the mod's response. Perhaps you should go back and read instead of imagining what people are actually discussing.
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"The objective of survivors is to finish 5 gens as faster as they can"
There you are the Big mistake, if you Genrush on 4 mins you deserves NOED, easy. That IS not the mechanic, the Game idea isnt that, and you should cleanse tótems to avoid certain perks.
If you Rush and Killer has Noed, IS your problem,deal with It as we do with DS,UB,BT,DH and Adrenaline every Game.
Survivors always try to fix their mistakes by crying and asking for nerfs. If you priorizes Rush against do the right thing, its because you are a mediocre player so improve yourself or go play Hello Kitty Online, because im tired of receiving offenses every Game by M1 red ranks survivors Who cant hold a Chase for more than 20 secs vs D Tier Killers like Wraith or clown (Without op addons), adapt and improve.
Keep this way and you Will play a Lobby simulator, then you Will cry about queues,long queues that you Will create by your baby cry
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I really like the devs and love their game but I have to agree with this.
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Yes, I totally agree. The life of solo survivor.
Although for me, tragically, I will still take the hit, in hopes that this game, my fellow survivors will commit to the damn TEAM!!!
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The time they add a totem counter is a time when hex perks become completely useless because people will focus on them before gens
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I think this is a good point. Sometimes it feels like people want a 100% foolproof, ironclad way they can play to guarantee a win, and I think the game is actually a lot more fun because there are elements of chaos and chance involved. You don't know if you're going to get hit with NOED or not; you don't know if everyone else cleansed a totem or not; there's an element of chance in whether you're able to find the totems at all -- to me that's not a problem; it's part of the fun of the game.
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Those aren't perks. You don't have to remove something to bring those. Unlike hunch. There's actually a couple good survivor perks but they are over shadowed by the meta. But you probably wouldn't know that since you sound like someone who only equips what streamers tell you.
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If your team unhooks you before I even get to walk away, that's your teams fault
If your saved and I see nothing but your blood trail. I'm going after you again because no one else tried to grab my attention. Your teams fault
If I hooked you and someone is looping me near you, I'm not leaving. Your teams fault
If your injured and someone right next to you is healthy. I'm going after you because it is more efficient for me.
I can't speak for all killers but I can speak for myself. If I tunnel or camp anyone. It's because it is the most efficient use of my time. Regardless of my motives, the devs have stated there is nothing wrong with camping, tunneling. These are just words survivor mains made up to complain when they get caught.
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Honestly I think at this point there are far more problemtic things which need to be adressed on both sides than NOED. Sure it is unfun and does reward killers for not playing well but it isn't uncounterable and in a swf it's not really a big deal, considering the tradeoff for killers is lossing a perk slot and that you have the whole game to get totems without any penalties being applied by the perk.
Ruin undying in my opinion is far worse than NOED, becaues unlike noed you don't have the whole game to cleanse totems, it actively applies pressure right from the get go and regardless of whether you cleanse all totems or not, the perks are still going to do a HUGE amount of damage.
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In other words: you mean he deserves to win because I was the better player? Do you hear yourself?
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There a lots of different perks to counter the opponents perks and abilities. But its often difficult to know what specalist perk you may need before starting a match. Detectives Hunch is good - but is it worth taking a particular survivor perk to counter a perk that the killer may or may not have? You may start the game with a build that goes to war on hex perks - only to find the killer has no hex perks. Congratulations, you'll have a survivor build that earns points and wastes precious time, while cleansing dull totems. The same goes with other perks, such as Lightborn, when none of the survivors have flashlights (you could argue that you can see if the survivors have flashlights in the lobby - but you get the idea). You might take Balanced Landing, when the map has no verticality. You might take an end-game perk such as Left Behind, Wake Up or Remember Me - but everyone gets killed before the exit gates can be powered.
When deciding on perks to use in a match, its best to choose those you know will have use throughout the game, such as Sprint Burst or Sloppy Butcher. A perk such as Spine Chill is particularly effective against stealth killers such as Pig and Wraith - but it is also useful against all other killers as well.
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NOED = KEY
Maybe the killers here can relate to a match that was going well suddenly ending for a BS item or perk. NOED feels exactly the same for survivors as keys due for killers. Sure the killers should get good. Franklins would like to talk to you. Sound familiar?
Of course those "counters", don't fix the inherent design problem with keys. In the same way that asking every survivor to patrol the map for dull totems isn't a fix for NOED. Just because there is a technical counter to the problem doesn't reduce the problem at all, it is simply a band-aid to a problematic perk.
The sooner we stop making excuses for bad design the faster we can have the game that we all want to continue playing.
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noed is nice... it grants me 4k´s even when i facecamp with insidious. BBQ says thanks!
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Define 'earned the kills'.
Because playing killer means you outwit the survivors. If survivors refuse to do cleanse totems despite nothing stopping them, it's a legit outwitting.
Like... for example: you do have an a-hole killer who pretends to be AFK. they have noed and bloodwarden. the only kill they didn't 'earn' if survivors stick around and make fools of themselves would be the ones for survivors that TRIED to get out but fell victim to those that stuck around for extra BP despite fake-afk with noed and bloodwarden being a known thing
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no , all been discussed before and it would be unfair for killers if there was a totem counter. that would make non-swfs virtually like swfs in red rank especially for low tier relying on ruin etc
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No, i mean because the game was unbalanced in the begining in your favor he needs something to even the odds.
Especially if you being able to loop him that long gives your team every opportunity to also do bones. Which your team decided not to.
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1.- It's not unbalanced, the killer is just bad, the high rank doesn't fit for him as he's not able to counterplay players like me, and I'm not a go I just went around in circles he didn't even try to shoot me most of the times. It would be unbalanced if there wasn't anything he could do, but he could, and he refused to outplay
2.- I would have loved my team to do bones, even myself, I have no problem, but I literally had no possible comms with these randoms and the fault isn't mine, I played well with good intentions but then I'm the one losing. I guess I should have ddossed my teammates to find their discord and call them to tell them to do bones.
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1- Yes it is, because basicly you should play vs people in your skill range. If you play against people way below your skill level, there is not much they can do, and it surly isnt balanced. See an 8 year old boxing vs Mike Tyson in his prime and tell the 8year old he could have hit harder and needs to get good doesnt make such a matchup balanced.
2 why is that not the fault of your team, but instead the fault of the perk? Can you explain that?
Please, let me quote you "do you hear yourself"?
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And noed rewards the killer for rejection of doing totems
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That's your issue if you ignored it for that long
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That's when you leave them if you can
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I mean isn't there something wrong when you can loop killer like deathslinger for 4 gens? And i am not talking about skill level just from an observational POV.
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I dont complain. All it takes is a Map, Detectives Hunch, or Small Game. The problem is survivors rather gen rush than to be patient.
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in other words he barely tried to shoot me, not even in short loops without long walls
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Damn, now that is a bad killer and i understand the frustration
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I've said it before and i'll say it again, all I want is a subtle audio cue when a non-hex totem is cleansed. It would go some way in bridging the gap between solo and swf while not being too hand-holdy. I would be fine with keeping NOED the way it is if this was implemented.
Its just not a fun perk to face as a survivor, just like Object of Obsession isn't fun to face as killer. Seems both will remain unchanged though because statically they're both fine according to the devs. I just hope they change their tune sooner rather than later.
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Haha, fair enough 🤣!!!
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That would be the best change imo.
To add to this.Show us a notification where the dull totem was cleansed similiar to hex totems so that you know where you don't have to look for other totems
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Noed is just a way for killers to get kills that they didn't earn. That being said, do bones.
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You mean like exactly how Decisive strike works? Lol.
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I don't think so.
SWFs already have this kind of information and it would really help to make the gap between solo players and swfs a bit smaller.
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Like it or not, Survivor is a team effort. If your team sucks, you likely won't make it out.
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I personally only run NOED on Plague and Nurse. I think it's obvious why, but yeah it isn't the best game design.
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Noed on plague is definetely an interesting one 🤔
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isn't the unhealthy gameplay loop survivors were lazy so killers were rewarded so they complained about it
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The addition of this change could also benefit the killer.You would then get very valuable information.
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Being a console player (more specifically Switch), between Plague's power being inconsistent and aiming being harder, it can be tough to play as her more so than other platforms. That's why I run NOED on Plague.
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I mean,playing on PS4 is already awful enough.I think i would go crazy if i had to deal with the switch version.
I just think it's funny on plague because nobody would expect it.
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It's a more popular perk for Plague on switch for sure.
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Noed is ok, but an activation requirement ok killer performance, like 4 hooks, can be a good balance.
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Of course they aren't perks, but they are 90% of the reason why people bring meta perks.
Camping existed way before DS.
Also, don't presume to know me just because you don't like to hear the facts.
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