The facecamping is getting really tiring now...
So 10 games in a row tonight, and every single one: A single survivor is facecamped or tunneled to death at 5 gens. Why? Seriously, I legit want to know what is going on? For weeks this has been happening and it's getting really old fast. And before anyone chimes in about 'Camping is legit, etc, etc'. Yes, it is. But at 5 gens? I just really want to know why are people doing this? It's like they just decide at the match start they've lost instantly. And it's not exactly entertaining for the poor survivor stuck up there for 2 minutes, or left to bleedout for 4 minutes. Yeah, the rest can gen rush, which I personally do. I won't feed a killer but it still stands that the survivor stuck in this situation has just had their time completely wasted in queuing up and entering the match. Personal opinion: Things need to change because I already abandoned killer and I'm close to doing it for survivor honestly. I used to enjoy this game, even when things were a mess of bullying, or camping, but this just isn't fun anymore.
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I know what you mean. I've been pretty much forced into a Killer Main because of LONG MATCHMAKING, and Camping/Tunneling/NoEd killers causing my friends to drop the game completely. Solo Survivor just plain isn't fun. Its a shame. I used to play survivor more often than killer but... now I got no one to play it with because theres no penalty for face camping killers.
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So what's your proposal ? Just complaining about something isn't helpful you know.
No one likes getting facecamped at the start of the match but if no one comes up with a fair solution then what's the point in complaining about it ?
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True, there should be a solution, but complaining about it does bring it to attention more. If it's ignored, it just stays that way. Better to speak up about it than let it continue. I'd suggest maybe a mechanic that if a killer has remained in the hook vicinity for maybe 45 seconds, the survivor is able to free themselves with a BT effect to at least give them a fighting chance of escape. But beyond that, I'd have no other realistic ideas of how to combat it.
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when you are actually facecamping you should start at 5 gens... thats the best method. They need the points and pips so they will come and unhook.
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Get rid of humans playing killer.
Make killer AI.
You want people to play how you want and that is not going to happen.
When playing games with other humans, you need to accept that you can't control how they play.
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Sounds like the killer was straight to business. With match making what it is, killer probably said screw it imma secure at least 1 this time
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Maybe if the Killer is within a very close proximity of the hook for a set amount of time, the hook timer just stops? And if the survivor is on 2nd hook, they get a hook state back. It would obviously have to be a signifigant amount of time camping, but I think it could work.
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That's not what I'm saying at all. People can play how they want. I could care less if they decided to go stand in the corner for 25 minutes. The fact is, I play the game to actually interact with it. Not stare at other people doing it for me. Would you in reality buy a game at full price and then enjoy watching others play it while you're stuck unable to do anything? That's my point I'm trying to make. I could care less if I die in my matches, but I like to at least get to play something of it.
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i think it could also work that when you chase a survivor off a gen, the gen timer stops so he cant facecamp/tunnel the same gen anymore.
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I've noticed this the past little while, a lot of us spend time complaining about how annoying killers are, it's true that they can be a lot of the time. That being said I also noticed that the devs put things in place to discourage the killer from doing things survivors don't like. The big one being if you stay near a hook you loose points in one of the emblem categories. Yet they've done very little if anything to stop survivors from doing things that annoy killers. body/hook blocking, pallet stun blinding. and even stupid saves because of BT. Yes killers body block too but it's not to the extent that survivors teams do it. I've body blocked only few times as survivor for protection hits and to give a little more wiggle time Never to prevent a hook. and once I get hit I'm out of there.
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Absolutely. At least 2/3 of my games are killer "players" who have nothing better to offer in terms of strategy but camping and tunneling the first survivor they can catch and hook. You wait 5-10 minutes for a game and get 1-3 minutes of gameplay of which most is tapping space in order to fight through the second struggle phase on your first hook.
Killers camping hooked survivors do not exactly follow the story behind "feeding the entity with the fear of the survivors" if they never pull the thumb out of the hooked survivors rectum. They should gain no more than 50 points out of such a kill.
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Not true, there are lots of games where the developers implement mechanisms to discourage certain behavior. Currently face camping and tunneling isn't really discouraged and in fact can be very effective. It's not about disallowing or punishing it but making it so that doing a certain action is considered so taboo that you don't choose to do it. Some ways to discourage is implementing measures that make it very costly to do. I'm not sure what that cost or those measures are but whatever they are they need to be intrinsic to the game, not a solution that requires survivors to use a perk.
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That sucks man. Personally, I can't remember the last time I was facecamped. It's been a few weeks at least, so, that's quite a few games ago for me.
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Although I have never facecamped at 5 gens I will facecamp if the survivor team is bullying me. I am not here to play for the amusement of Survivors so if I am being bullied I will retaliate with the only tools I have at my disposal. I don't care about pips or ranks so punishing me that way will not make me do less of it. If anything I will take the depip as a badge of honor.
Here is the thing: you can do all the penalties you want and the only thing you will get in return is longer queue times as killers stop playing. I used to hate killers who camped/facecamped/tunneled, but after playing a Killer myself for a little bit I now understand why people do it. It's not necessarily the griefing, but the sheer boredom of the matchmaking giving rank 14 killer a rank 2 survivor group, or that survivors want to use you as a farming stick while bullying you. These are the only tools, as bad as they are, to get a smidgen of entertainment out of playing a killer.
I have thrown games where my goal has to be to ensure that survivors get as little points from me as possible. They can get the escape and the gen points, but nothing else. I will even open the exit just to claim the points for myself and end the game sooner.
I remember the carefree days when I started as a killer. I wouldn't kill all the survivors and even if I was doing well I would still love to let 1-2 survivors escape. It was an enjoyable experience that made me a softie. Then I gained ranks and high-tier survivors turned me into a cruel killer that only thinks of ways to grief survivors who act like ********.
This game is very toxic in its balance and matchmaking and now I understand very well why the survivor queues are so long - survivors have bullied most killers out of the game.
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Orion and others have mentioned that anti camping mechanics were tried a long time ago on the ptb. Survivors abused those mechanics so they never made it out of the ptb.
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I believe if more survivors ran kindred and learned how to do gens then there would be less killers face camping.
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What's wrong with noed?
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Good question. The answer is: On a high rank Killer that properly applies pressure without camping, face or otherwise, provides a fun and challenging match for all involved, and does their best not to tunnel? Absolutely nothing. For a pack of skilled survivors, its just another strategic hurdle to overcome together.
..............
On a low rank face-camping tunnel each person one at a time until you finally get all the gens done because your team is uncoordinated, and then you manage to save your low rank friend only for them to go down in one hit because SURPRISE! Not only do I not bust gennies, commit to chases other than the person I last hooked AND run slowdown perks while literally face camping, I'm gonna go ahead and put the one last cheap-trick dollop of screw-you icing on this cake of misery by making sure that your last remaining DbD friend ragequits and uninstalls type of Killer?
Its just such a loser move. In that seemingly specific but all too recurring situation.
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There needs to be a camping tunneling penalty but nothing is being done about it. I recently got the Nintendo Switch version of the game and the graphics look like I'm play a PS2 and that's the most camping I've ever experienced. I think in the tutorial there needs to be training on not face camping because of a no bloodpoint penalty or something.
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They tried a camping penalty on a PTB once and it was being abused by the survivors.
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Could just be a recency bias making it seem more common than it actually is. Any killer worth their salt knows that facecamping is just a petty tactic.
Just move on to the next match whenever it happens. Hardly anyone will get rescued without hook switching in that scenario.
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I see what you mean but it's not necessary to suck the fun out of the game either. I feel that if you have to play dirty to win then you don't deserve anything for it.
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Yep... Got facecamped by a Nurse and a LF today. Such fun!
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Okay I actually see your point, thank you for explaining your reasoning unlike some other people.
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A suggestion. How about a survivor perk (so it costs the survivor to have it in place) where if the killer does not move more than say a 20m distance from the hook in a 10 second period, the perk activates and allows the hooked survivor to jump off of the hook with dead hard active. Hooked survivor at least has an opportunity to stay in the game while the killer can still have the opportunity to nab them so it's not a straight escape. Existence of the perk would also make killers wary of face camping as they can't be certain if the survivor has it or not.
Like I said - just a suggestion.
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Devs tried this concept once, and Just like always survivors can abuse it. So the devs deleted the concept.
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Can we establish first what face camping is? Because they are some wild versions of it. Like long range face camping, when the hook isn't even inside the killers terror radius (not stealth killers) but dares to look into the direction of the hook.
Or hag placing a trap near the hook, apparently that also counts as face camping.
In my last 10 matches I had 1 insidious bubba who stood next to the hook. That's what I consider face camping.
What about the rest?
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The insidious bubba example is what I'd like to see punished. Hags placing traps - no. At least you can get rid of those traps with a flashlight.
Killers just standing by hooks needs to be discouraged.
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In my experience, Survivors tend to call anything camping where the Killer catches them at the hook, regardless of the reason. It is kind of silly, and self-serving. To keep things very clear and simple, me and mine use the following terminology:
- Squatting: The Killer stands at the Hook point blank to stare at the victim and try to deter/prevent any rescue.
- Lurking: The Killer is very close to the Hook, but hides from both the hooked and potential rescuers, often employing Perks.
- Camping: The Killer stays in the general vicinity, doing a series of short range patrols so they can return quickly to the hook.
Thus, me and mine can simply say, We've got a Lurker... or we've got a Squatter... or we've got a Camper... and all of know EXACTLY what we mean. It conveys all the important information. I mostly play Solo, because my friends and I can't get together that often. But when we do, we prefer terms that are more specific.
The simple truth is that the only way to encourage Killers to leave the area of the Hook entirely is to make it worth their while. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Thus, Killers either have to be getting a benefit in BP by leaving the area, or be provided with a direction to go. I've often suggested that Killers should earn a version of Bold advancement (not unlike Survivors do for staying in the Killer's Terror radius) for moving a certain distance from the Hook and staying outside of it.
In general, Killers tend to move away from Squatting once they are away from the Potato Ranks because it isn't an effective strategy. Lurking and Camping (as I define them) are niche tools and are always on tap depending on a match or the Killer's build. For example, Killers with the Perk: Insidious or some power via Add-on(s) might lurk nearby using the hook as bait. Some Killers like Hag and Spooky Myers (Scratched Mirror+Boyfriend's Memo) will do the series of patrols using their respective powers to watch the Hook and return to it quickly to intercept. That is their thing. It is how they offset being slow.
Most of the bad things that happen to Survivors are the result of the choices of Survivors (themselves and their Peers). I know that sounds harsh, but it is true. There are ways to make safe rescues, and even snatch a Survivor right under the nose of a Squatter. It takes coordination and practice. Time is the most important resource Survivors have and like it or not, having one person do maximum time on the hook can be a godsend to the group that milk as much Generator time out of it as possible.
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We need to encourage killers to leave the hook. Not punish them for camping.
I propose reverting some of the BBQ aura reading nerfs we received in the past.
On top of that, because not everyone has BBQ, we should have bonus points for finding a new survivor after hooking someone.
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Well, it doesnt often happen to me. But i often see the argument that thats mean its not as frequent as poeple claim, and since its not happening every game it doesn´t have to change.
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No they don't. They only come because they don't want to play gen simulator. If they never save the person match after match then the game dies.
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Face camping is when the killer is standing in front (or beside) of the hooked survivor. Most people know what face camping is. I don't mind killers camping during end game or if a survivor is looping the killer right beside of the hook. A killer face camping at the beginning with 5 gens left, though? That is BS...
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Agreed
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I notitced this shift in meta too. Camping and tunelling is rife, same with NOED. Killers dont try and pressure gens anymore, they just tunnel vision 1 survivor and lose the game.
There's many times I can be repairing a gen and the killer completely ignores me and keeps on tunnelling my friend. I play both sides, and this makes no sense to me. It has to be boring for sure. I've come to the conclusion that these players are just angry and bored.
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What was it they actually did to try then? Cos if they tried then it clearly shows that even the devs agree it’s a problem, they just don’t have the idea to actually prevent it without causing other issues. And then they’ve just given up trying? That sounds like some great development skills.
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I have no idear why you would camp that early since it is quite boring for the killer as well. Some nights all the facecampers seem to be out and that's when I switch on steve with camaraderie and tell my team I have this perk. I'll be hanging around a little longer (vibing to my music) while the team gets more gen time.
The real problem is in solo most people try saving which gives the killer more kills. It's crap for the hooked one but if we want to punish this the team needs to genrush. But to be fair I haven't been facecamped in over a month while I almost play daily.
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No that’s not the real problem. How is trying to add a bit of excitement to an extremely dull game the problem. Imagine playing 5 games in a row where the killer facecamps, whether or not you’re the one that’s hooked, that’s 5 games of doing basically nothing other than holding m1. This is the kind of thing that makes people quit the game cos it’s so boring.
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This. People call anything camping if they get downed shortly after leaving the hook. I've been playing spirit and usually will leave the area after hooking and try to pressure all the nearest gens. If survivors get unhooked quickly while you're in the area, you can often phase-walk back, see the scratches, and down them again. Survivors shouldn't have the expectation that killers will see an easy target and pass up a free hook just because the person has already been hooked. The objective is to kill and win, not ensure some random survivor has a good time.
If survivors are so worried about being "tunneled", isn't that what DS is for? Why not practice and get better at looping? Why not just take one for the team, let your buddies finish the gens while you are getting camped or whatever? Some survivors have this cognitive distortion in their head of how the game should play out, and when they don't get what they want, they experience this big negative emotion and blame shift.
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You answered your own question. In short, it's the gen rushing, more often than not. It's become so out of control that the only method killers really have to slow things down is to take someone out of the equation as early as possible.
Now there's always going to be those players that will do things like facecamp regardless of anything else, so that's obviously not a perfect answer, but it's been my experience that those that camp with five or four left are trying to force the match to work at their pace. Of course, this is just my opinion.
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In my experience there isn't a real problem I almost never see a real facecamp happen unless it is endgame and then I get the strategy. I've never had multiple games in a row where facecamping happens. If the team acts smart the killer only gets one kill + it is boring as hell so no sensible killer will keep this playstyle up forever. Proxycamping is something I see quite often but this just takes skill and knowing when is the best opportunity to get the save.
Edit: also trying to save when they facecamp gives the killer more kills + noone on gens so win-win situation. After the hooked person dies there has been nothing done and the killer can go hook and camp the next person.
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Most of the time it’s not a huge problem and not that common, but just the other day I had 3 games in a row against a face camping bubba. With the queue times and loading that’s nearly an hour of my time wasted as it was extremely boring. First two games I did the gens and escaped, final game I just traded and let the camped guy out. After this I just opened up a different game cos what’s the point playing a game where you could literally do nothing for a whole hour
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Just because something is "legit" doesn't means it's not toxic and poor sportsmanship.
In terms of possible mechanical solutions - implement a loss of bloodpoints if a Killer stays near a hooked survivor. That would help mitigate or even eliminate both facecamping and proxy camping, depending on the radius of the circle around the hooked survivor. If the player knew that standing there at the hook would cost them 100 bloodpoints every second, they'd be less likely to do so. Heck, they could do the same for slugged survivors - so a Killer who decides to facecamp/proxycamp a slugged survivor could suffer the same loss of bloodpoints.
There ARE possible mechanical solutions for most of the toxic behavior in the game, it's just a matter of whether the devs want to implement them.
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Now I play mid-rank mostly as a killer, but I don't think a lot of survivors understand their own roles in "camping" and "tunneling". Frequently, I've seen another survivor lurking near the hook as I hooked or as I turn to leave I see another survivor running in for the save already. That's not camping...that's looking for the other survivor I know is there. If he can't lead me away from the hook, I assume he's still there. This happens all the time.
Last night, playing Trapper, I had a flashlight aimed at my head in the first 20 seconds of the game. I had 1 trap set up. I hooked the survivor. Got body blocked by that same survivor with BT as I tried to go after the rescuer. He escaped, healed and came back with the flashlight. I dropped him, hooked him and did short patrols. I tunneled him when he was unhooked, left him on the ground for a while, then hooked him and he died. They lost because of his bad play but threw a tantrum in post game chat that I camped, tunneled, and was the worst killer ever. It warmed my heart to know that they were so upset with the outcome. Couple of games later I got called a great killer and told the game was a lot of fun. Wonder which one it is? Am I sh*t or great? Nothing about my play style changed between the two games. The survivors played very differently though.
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That doesn't mean the door is closed on the topic. Developers often have to iterate on changes until they get it right.
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I am still waiting for all the "survivor mains" presenting footage of them 12 hooking every game, not camping/tunneling/slugging...
But they don´t, because they can´t. And as long as they don´t show us how its done different, its basically case closed.
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Actually, that is exactly what it means. All a Player has to do to be a "good sport" is:
- Don't cheat, either by hacks or lag spikes.
- Don't quit; if you start a game, finish it.
- Be humble in victory and gracious in defeat.
That's it. The word "toxic" has no meaning here because everyone tosses it around for whatever their personal hobby horse may be. Playing with the rules, is by definition, is meeting one of the plans of being a good sport. Your personal preferences have no bearing on this discussion.
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Given the fact that it would be possible to implement similar mechanics to prevent survivor abuse, I would hope the devs would revisit the issue.
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the "issue" is not a problem of the game... its a problem of survivors not accepting how the game works. There is no problem to be solved.
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I’m tired too of campers and tunnelers. Probably it’s not a problem in North America, but it’s a very big problem in east Europe. I bought another game today and I’m leaving this game after 4.000 hours
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