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Does anybody else think that Tinkerer was over-buffed? I really hate this perk now.
This perk is just dreadful to face as solo now. Getting gens finished with any semblance of coordination just gets thrown into the trash, set of fire, and burned to hell. Trying to get gens finished as a solo becomes frustrating.
Comments
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Just stop playing solo and do gens faster
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I respectfully disagree. I think the change to Tinkerer was pretty much perfect. They buffed the numbers while retaining what the perk does. I want whoever was in charge of buffing this perk to continue with other perks.
Yeah it is a strong perk. I think both sides need strong perks. I wish they would make similar changes to almost all the perks and remove non sense requirements and/or cooldowns.
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No it only seems so bc of ruin undying. A fast killer can chase you away and the gen regresses, he goes to another gen and your gen triggers tinkerer again.
Tinkerer alone or with every other combo is a good info perk, but its not too strong. Tinkerer needs ruin and ruin needs undying.
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Tinkerer per se is not that much of an issue and the Buff was fine IMO.
The problem is that it becomes a problematic Perk with Ruin/Undying. The good thing about the Ruin-Change was that it was not effortless slowdown anymore. This means that good Killers would benefit from it.
However, with Undying and Tinkerer, even a bad Killer can get decent results. Tinkerer is a big "Go here for free Gen Regression"-Sign which can be really oppressive on high mobility Killers. However, Tinkerer alone is not a big deal in my opinion.
And I doubt that the Devs will change anything on Tinkerer, given the fact that they just buffed it.
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I don't mind it at all. If you have bad teammates it doesn't matter too much if the killer has tinkered or not.
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Tinkerer is one of the few defenses a Killer has against SWF groups that can coordinate distant generators.
Hell, half the time if I don't drop what I am doing IMMEDIATELY they will finish before I even get there.
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Tinkerer is arguably the only perk in the entire game that counters survivors just splitting up and doing gens. You can pry it from my cold, dead hands.
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I think it's perfect where it is. Yes, it becomes strong in certain combos. Like one of my Freddy builds is Pop, Tinkerer, Thrilling Tremors, and the fourth is determined by my read on the lobby, but it's usually been Franklin's or Lightborn because lobbies lately have been bringing a lot of keys or flashlights.
Why Tinkerer on Freddy? Because it lets me know where people are, the gen most in danger, and if I down someone, I can try to force them off that gen by faking a teleport. Then I can pick up the survivor, the gen gets blocked, I hook them, teleport to that gen, and Pop it. Like the rumored Freddy nerf of taking away power from his rope add-ons doesn't really worry me. I rarely use Forever Freddy. This build right here ensures a constant flow game.
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It isn't an issue when you have 2 or more people working on a gen, mostly because you'll finish before the killer arrives.
If you know the perk is in play, try your best to play around it. It isn't guaranteed that the killer will rush over to you either. They could be busy chasing an injured survivor, or letting you finish to attempt a 3 - gen set up.
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It's sad to say, but I agree, it's pretty powerful now. And gets used a lot, especially with Ruin + Undying.
I use it a lot on killer even though I don't like facing it as survivor, but I think it'd be for the best if there was some kind of cooldown on the same gen. But only if it was the exact same gen.
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Nah it's good. If Ruin+Undying+Tinkerer gets changed it should be Undying instead of Tinkerer changed.
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not 100% sure about the "bad killer" thing. I also noticed that bad killers like to drop chases to protect the gens, giving the survivor time to recover. This just extends the match until the point where the killer runs into 3 gens that are regularly popping Tinkerer. Just as a counter example that it does not generally buff bad killers. Just true if the bad killer also faces bad survivors, that get scared too heavy and just let the gens regress.
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Tinkerer basically turns every game into hide and seek once two survivors are killed off. It basically makes it impossible to finish any more gens beyond that point.
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Yep
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I mean, I find it kinda BS on freddy. So we'll have to see what the changes are to him they have planned over all.
I don't mind it too much against most of the other killers in the game.
Killers that don't have high maneuverability I have not had much problem with it honestly. Demogorgon has a lot of delay and limitation on how he gets around so the Demo's I've run into that have it honestly I didn't feel all that more oppressed than the usual build people run on him
Blight, Billy, Oni however it has been a bit problematic. Blight, can be manageable sometimes depending on the map; but Oni and Billy because they can haul ass across the map AND instant down it's been problematic to say the least.
Everytime I am just about to finish a gen *angry chainsaw man noises in the distance* If he is good enough to get you or close the gap and then get you he just keeps repeating that; you can just turn your brain off and just follow the "dings" and you'll win. At least Oni's power runs out, but since billy can just keep doing it.....
But yeah overall it's been seriously annoying on Freddy given how fast his power comes back; it's obnoxious and he's not a weak killer by any standard even without it.
Edit: I should add; this is assuming ruin/undying is also in play
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Tinkerer is fine, the only time it becomes a problem is when Ruin is in play. Tinkerer pops, killer comes over, genquickly regresses back below 70% while the killer is around. Killer leaves/chases someone, someone else comes to the gen, and Tinkerer pops again to start the whole thing over.
That's the only time it's really bad, but it's also not really Tinkerer that's the problem. Someone slapping it in a build isn't going to get that much Tinkerer value, even with perks like PGTW or Surge.
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New Tinkerer is just average. I'd be closer to buffing it than I would nerf it.
It only looks stronger when it's paired with Ruin/Undying and even then it's just "good". Not even remotely too good.
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Way overbuffed. Too much information for the killer. I hate that it punishes for doing the objective and rewards the killer for doing nothing actually. The information is too much, but for some reason it gives undetectable status which some gens are in locations where you don't have good view. I can't say how many times a leatherface turned a corner and chainsaw me because I had no time to react. You feel cheated.
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I just think it's particularly obnoxious when it's paired with ruin/undying on a certain sweater boi
like
guess i'll die?
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The problem isn't not knowing they are coming; despite the undetectable effect. You KNOW they have tinkerer; it's because you are forced off every gen before it can finish and it start to regress rapidly.
In a SWF you will probably pick that gen up asap as a team mate, in solos....it usually just regresses by a bucketload.
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Why not through on swing chains, jump rope as well right?
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I just want the original Tinkerer to be back again in some way or another...
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My problem with Tinkerer is that, why use any other gen patrol perk ever when you can abuse this with the popular Ruin Undying combo. Together, these make the Devil's Trifecta, an almost impossibly difficult build for survivors to work around without great coordination. Any killer with mobility or good map pressure can and will abuse these.
Surveillance and Discordance then get almost no use / see the light of day. It's a shame because Surveillance is really cool with Pop Oppression (It's neat seeing all the gens you just caused to regress via Oppression) and Discordance, while underrated is unbelievably good as it will almost always make survivors stop working on gens together. I know that isn't the most prevalent issue but if you pair Discordance with Ruin Undying, suddenly survivors have a much harder time trying to simply power through Ruin.
TLDR: there are other gen patrol perks but tinkerer is just dummy thicc good
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Basically what other people said. Tinkerer is fine, it's Ruin and/or Undying that are the problems because all of them paired together on mobility killers or Freddy it's ######### stupid, especially Freddy
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As previously stated though, it encourages unhealthy survivor play once 2 other survivors are dead, sometimes just with 1 dead. Not touching generators anymore.
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they have 24 seconds to reach a solo, or 14 seconds to reach 2 people on a gen..
that's overbuffed for something that only makes you undetectable?
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Uh where did you get those numbers?
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I think it's overrated. Good on mobility killers for sure but on normal killers its usually, "Let's watch which gen is gonna pop before it pops." It's definitely a decent perk on the right killers, but it ain't just gonna replace discordance or surveillance on those other killers.
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30% of 80 seconds is 24
30% of 46 is 14
i can't remember if 2 people on a gen is 46 or 44 for a full gen.. either way, 14 or less for the killer to get there once Tinkerer procs
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So i run tinkerer as much as i can. Its a good perk if used right by any killer, even without ruin. It was nearly useless before because you never could get there in time. What you need to do is change how you play when you realize tinkerer is being used.
Get a gen to about 65%
If you see the killer is in a chase or you know he's really far, keep going. Walk away if he leaves chase cause you know he's coming for you.
If the killer is carrying a survivor, keep going.
If the killer isn't doing anything, leave it at 65% and go to another gen. Rinse and repeat
Also, if you are SWF, try to get multiple gens to 70% at the same time. Really screws with the killer.
And do your best to not let the gen go back below 70% if you do get chased away. If they kick the gen, you can tap the gen to stop regression and its likely that the killer won't go back for a while, thinking "I can leave that one for a bit and wait for tinkerer to proc again"
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That's assuming ruin/undying is still up from all game long. That either means they played very badly to lose 2 players that fast when they ignored totems to just focus gens or you just got very lucky as killer on your totem spawns. These aren't your typical scenarios.
Even with all this said, if Tinker causes them to not touch gens anymore then that's bad play on their part. I let him get his Tinkerer proc, open my eyes, and watch for him. If he comes I loop while the other guy finishes another gen. If he leaves I go back to work on the gen.
This is generally a losing scenario for the killer bar some odd very lucky circumstances on his part or the survivors just having really bad teammates.
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That's why I pair with discordance. If 2 are on it, I was already headed that way :P
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I think it's in a perfect place right now. And I keep telling people, run Spine Chill and you'll never get snuck up on. It should be an auto-include. Y'all are missing out.
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Tinkerer per se is not the problem. The problem is Ruin/Undying.
Most killers cannot get good mileage out of Tinkerer. You need high mobility to really make use of it. But Ruin/Undying works for everyone and its power is greatly amplified by Tinkerer.
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Undetectable is not the "only" effect. The knowledge of which gen is being worked on is what's important.
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Thing is, I had Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer/BBQ on my Blight when prestiging him from P2 to P3. And I got 16 4Ks in a row (one time was a Hatch escape, but I count that as a 4K). And Blight is a Killer which is pretty hard to master and I am clearly not good enough to get 16 4Ks in a row, even with a Killer I am quite decent with (which is not Blight). So I pretty much got carried by the Build, because even when I was not catching a Survivor immediatly, Tinkerer helped me to prolong the match enough by giving me constant Gen Regression due to Ruin so that even I was able to kill them all.
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I still wouldn't expect you to be a "bad killer" then. You at least have decent knowledge about the game, using the information you get etc. I guess you are not randomly dropping easy chases for the sake of hunting off a healthy survivor off a gen that is half map across for example. The easiest strat against this build is either find the totems or split on gens. I managed several times to get through the gates because the killer was afraid of losing gens too much. This relies on competent team mates ofc, and we all know this is rare.
Making you better is not the same like getting carried. How many kills do you get without perks? If it is around 2, I wouldn't say a 4k is only by carry. Otherwise you have to say that every perk carries you. If it is 1 if you are lucky, you could say the build carries you. At least I would make a difference between your "carried" and the type of carried when a killer camps his first hook to death and then gets his 2-3k by NOED.
0k - 4k is not that linear regarding your skill. Each kill heavily flips the coin to your favor and the earlier the first kill happens, the more likely it will turn into a 4k. Like think of the difference of how much chances the survivors have to escape with 4 survivors and with 3. Then look again at the decrease when the second dies. This is not linear. And a decent killer (imo) often lingers around this peak, that turns a 2k into a 4k. This small peak, where slight mistakes change the outcome of the game. And THEN of course such a strong combo will often give you the small boost needed to get there. But that would not mean that the build could lift you from a late 1k to a 4k instead.
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The thing is, when the Bloodlust Experiment took place, I played 30 games of Killer during that weekend. During those games I had 2,8 Kills on average. On some games I got completely destroyed (like 0K with only like 4 or 5 Hooks) and some games I got a 3K or something like that, just because people killed themselves. So I think there is quite a difference between 2,8K and 4K on average.
Of course 16 games and 30 games are not numbers which are high enough, I would probably have to do like at least 100 games to have some data, but it is all I have got.
And while I would not consider myself a bad Killer, I am not good enough for Red Ranks IMO, still I am in Red Ranks. And other players get 4Ks (and way more in a row) without using Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer in every match.
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Again to my point: (jsut assuming, can't judge anything as I don't have any of your gameplay) even if you are not a "true" red rank and just get there by the bad emblem system, I just wanted to make sure that "bad killer" is not understood like the "NOED camping" bad killer. A 2,8k average killer is not "carried" to a 4k imo. NOED can carry that type from 1k to 3-4k but not this combo. Unless you run against equally bad or really unfortunate survivors, which then again is not a problem of the build
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It's tremendously powerful on its own, but ridiculously powerful with Ruin. I wouldn't mind Tinkerer as much if Ruin didn't function how it presently does.
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I still think its mediocre and am suprised it took off recently. I can only assume people saw Streamers using that meta build with Blight and just decided its good for all killers.
Seriously I've seen Slingers using that build its ridicolous.
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Yeah isn't it 75%? Solo that would be 20 seconds. Not 24.
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I really can't stand gamers like you. No value, no substance, all snark.
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70%
also see ingame description
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one hint: each of the 4 moving (howsitcalled) "cylinders" means 22% when fully moving. so you can stop as soon as the 4th starts moving, then you should be at about 66-67%
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That's a great tip!
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