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Decisive Strike is a requirement to survive?
Not so long ago I started realizing something. According to Otz, if the Killer kills/sacrifices one survivor before the 4th gen is done, it's an assured victory for the Killer. So in order to win, it's enough for the killer to remove at least one single survivor from the game, and do it as soon as possible. What does it tell us? It shows, that plain tunneling of a single person is actually the most efficient strategy in this game.
So what does DS have to do with this? Yeah, as we all know, most killers are afraid of it and have to respect it, that leads to tunneling 2 guys one after another instead of 1. And the killer knows there is a chance of DS by the obsession present in the game. Yes, just those simple spider legs around a survivor in the HUD is what actually saves survivors from being destroyed by the most efficient (and generally considered as toxic) strategy.
So what happens if there is no obsession in this game? For me as a killer it means only one thing: I can tunnel the ######### out of the survivor I hooked first, and they can't do anything with it. Moreover, I actually HAVE to tunnel him, since that's the most efficient strategy: I need to eliminate one survivor before the 4th gen. So I tunnel and always win when that happens. As sorry as I may be for that first guy, I can't help but use what is the most efficient way to win if I actually want to win. The game dictates the rules, which I have to follow, if I'm interested in winning.
When I play survivor and there is no obsession in this game, it gives me creeps from the very beginning, since I understand that now I'm on the receiving end of it. If the killer is smart enough and is not a white knight, he will do the same thing, and we are not able to stop him. He will tunnel the first one, he will do this within the first 3 gens, and he will win. As survivors, in this case we basically have to hope for the Killer's ignorance or mercy, as only in these cases we may not lose.
Killing one guy without a DS within the first 3 gens is what any killer can achieve. If the first guy is tough, the Killer can just find another one, who is weaker. Down and hook him, proxy camp and tunnel him, hook, proxycamp and tunnel again, hook the last time. Boom, 3 remaining players and 2+ remaining gens. You can congratulate yourself with victory. Moreover, you may not even feel sorry for using an "unfair strategy": the game itself dictates that it's the best way to win. You are not toxic, the game mechanics are.
So it means that every survivor team needs to have at least one DS in the game in order to at least have a chance against a killer who knows this "2-gen 3-surv principle" and is not going to deliberately play less efficient on moral grounds. That makes this perk not "strong" or "OP", it actually makes it NECESSARY for survivors to have. Tunneling is what wins any game, and the game doesn't give any base-kit tools to counter it. Whatever you do, you absolutely NEED those spider legs of salvation present in this game, or else the game is not going to be pleasant.
Comments
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That's true, but I'm sure Otz would agree that you still need pressure in order to do well in a match. What you're suggesting involves zero generator pressure until the majority (even if not by much) of the generators are done. That doesn't make as great a strategy.
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This strategy only works well against teams that perform poorly. By that, I mean a team that has someone downed really early, a team that doesn't work at gens, and/or a team that hangs around the hook while the killer is obviously camping.
also uh, known as most solo queue matches
But even then, that relies on the killer either being afraid of DS or the survivor being tunneled to death having DS. And even then, if the team is bad, that aint gonna stop the killer.
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DS isn't a requirement to survive.
Staying with the analogy of the top killer, survivors can complete 3 gens before the first hook. Your tunneling would kill the first survivor by the time the last gen gets completed.
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All it actually takes is having just one bad survivor in the game. If he can be eliminated by the time 2 gens are remaining, the Killer wins. And in solo queue you are almost guaranteed to have at least one potato in your team.
It would take 80 seconds for 3 survivors to repair 3 gens. The survivor must be a really good looper if he lasts 80 seconds. So of course a smart killer will never target good loopers if he has an alternative.
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80 seconds without great skill checks.
Killer doesn't spawn next to the survivor. He has to cross the map, which takes at least 30 seconds. Picking the survivor up and carrying him to the hook also takes a minimum of 10 seconds. So a chase of 40 seconds isn't really far fetched. Most survivors last longer.
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This is anecdotal, but I've played hundreds of matches where I died despite having DS. I've also played just as many matches where I survived without having it. Yes it can swing matches under the right circumstances, and I will agree that having an obsession generally improves match quality. But it is not required to survive nor does it guarantee survival.
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I changed DS to Sprint burst and it helps me survive more often. When you unhooked in front of killer and sprint away, killer most likely let you go. With DS he may slug you or eat it and tunnel you with no concern.
I tried to run both DS and Sprint, and it makes DS waste a perk slot, because killers stopped tunnel me.
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You know what I think is even better for team survival in solo queue. Kindred this perk gives your team actual awareness no dicking around with bond range limits aftercare awkward conditions. I argue kindred in a solo queue environment is better then ds. But then you actually have to view the game as a 4 v 1 and not be out to cover your own ass only. In a team ds is ridiculously exploitable effectively giving you free reign to pressure any gen for the next 60 seconds. If the killers aggroed that's alleviating pressure, if they ignore you that's a lot of progress on a gen. Even if they slug you then you unbreakable because of course you run both together if they eat the ds that a literal 4th hook state. How can anyone back ds balanced state argument when you can just rush over to the 80% gen and freely push it after being unhooked.
Just today someone was complaining that I tunneled despite running to unhook in front of me with ds active how the hell is that tunneling. I don't believe for a second you people can be so stupid that you don't understand that your using ds as an invincibility tool not to stop tunneling. this perk need killer level clauses. Stuff like touching a gen disables ds, unhooking a survivor disables ds. The minute you take a non heal action ds should disable ds until the next point your unhooked.
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Not true. Solo queue lacks the ability to share info without using perks. Sharing info is easy in a swf on he other hand. And have you seen gen placement on some of these maps? I’ve seen 4 gens in a pretty small square on these redesigned Macmillan maps. If someone goes down while 2 of these gens are being worked in that area, the killer will say “well why would I leave, I have one on the hook and I know where 2 more are.”
Situations like the above are common. It’s free pressure for the killer, generated by zero skill involved. Similar to getting a map with an endless number of pallets the killer can’t do anything about. No skill involved.
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And the only strategy the survivors have if there is no obsession is sit on gens and the survivor kills himself in spite of their only strategy.
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Solo queue lacks easy information sharing as you said, and that is why I tried to say that solo queue often messes up and sucks.
Also I do agree that some of the gen placements in the Macmillan maps are awful and hooking someone by a 4 gen is probably too powerful and that gen placements should be more balanced. Although, I find myself struggling a lot on those maps as killer.... Honestly not sure why. I probably need to record and watch my own gameplay or something.
By the way, as a killer who does their best to take advantage of the above strategy and situation: The way you counter that as a survivor sadly requires some coordination, but if you and another survivor work on two separate gens in the 3/4 gen around the hook, the killer is either going to have to leave the hook to smack someone off the gen or hard camp the hook so that no one can save. It's a lose-lose situation for the killer if everyone isn't injured, but the best thing the killer can do is to go to a gen and smack the survivor. If the killer has been properly outputting split pressure though, you all need to heal or start trading every minute.
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It isn't required to survive but it definitely helps, especially when playing solo.
The only change I want with DS is if you start fixing a gen/breaking a totem/healed it deactivates and it will stop it being abused. It just helps with the people who really want to tunnel you out of the game.
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It would definitely help to have an obsession in every game, even without any obsession perks on any side. This way the Killer won't get the message "you can tunnel whoever you want" when he sees no obsession.
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DS isn't a requirement. Bringing obsession perks and addons can give the survivors the benefit of doubt tho. What most sq players fail to understand is that games are much easier if you follow simple premises:
1-Spread out and work on gens.
2-If you're in a chase, drive the killer away from vulnerable team mates (to run towards a hook rescue, someone working a high priority gen, etc)
3-If you're on death hook, let your teammates take the risk. Also, if your team mates are on death hook take risks.
4-Stop urban evading everywhere.
5-Learn to play while injured.
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You don't need to tunnel to win, since when I go for whoever's the closest to me while defending my gens I'm rank 1 and haven't needed to tunnel to win only situation is if it's like mothers dwelling the biggest map of the game either than that its quite easy to win without tunneling if you have atleast ruin and it doesn't get popped in the first ten seconds
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Just always bring 1 DS if your in a swf. Solo I'dbring DS just to be safe. Means an obsession will spawn which will hopefully detour a killer from camping.
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Yeah, you have to bring DS just to have an obsession in you game. The mere presence of the obsession helps more than the actual perk. When I don't pick it, every third game in my soloQ I play in a team without an obsession, and it turns into hell, since the Killer doesn't hesitate to tunnel everyone.
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Majority of my games are like this. I don't run DS because I run vault speed build with iron will and adren. If I see that the killer is playing this way I tend to do gens and usually my teammates do too. After the first guy is killed I try to get the killer on me so my team does gens.
I can loop for a while so I'm kinda confident with looping and taking on long chases. If my team gets gens done I'll stall for a bit and than run to a gate, hopefully they open it and if I'm injured take hits.
Now than come the end game messages (ps4 player here) and the killer insults me and calls me toxic. Now I don't do things to get the killers attention in a toxic way, I dont tea bag or click my flashlight (if I bring one) I tell them almost every time,
" if you play scummy, I'll play scummy. You chose to dedicate the chase and I'll live for as long as I can."
They proceed to tell me I wasted their time. I believe that this is not my doing but I rather play as efficient as I can with this play style.
Did I do anything wrong? I tried my counter to this play strat
The reason why i prefer to have the killer chase me is because I dont trust them to handle a chase long enough to get gen progress done.
Post edited by Thatgurl_again on0 -
Not reading all that, but no. Def not a requirement. I don't even use it and I'm at r1. I also only que solo.
Adrenaline, Balanced Landing (my goto exhaust perk) are higher prio to me than anything else. BT also ensures safe unhooks which just helps your entire team and you get easy points. Inner Strength gives you the ability to heal up, Iron Will can save you a lot of times too when injured and trying to get to the gates w/o being seen.
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How is tunneling even an efficient strat? You're wastin SO much time doing that. PRESSURE is the ultimate strat to victory in high rank games.
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Its pretty easy when the opponent refuses to respect the killer is a threat.
You might be shocked how often purple and even red ranks won't even hide behind something and self care near the hook.
Even when I don't have NC, I can still hear them whimpering. Tunneling is quite frequently effective when your enemy assumes you're an idiot.
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The important word here is 'when'. Only time survivors just stand right in front of me are when they have ds, borrowed and more of that bs...
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DS is a must on SoloQ as so much killers tunnel.
On SWF not so much because communication is the key. If they camp/tunnel they most like loose.
Also on SoloQ people just crouch around hook doing nothing ( somtimes 2 or even 3 are sitting there and that sucks) or hiding on corner.
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I agree that DS is needed as a survivor.
As a killer main, if I don't have 1 to 2 hooks by the time the first Gen is done then I am in trouble. You do have to have killed a survivor by the time you get to 1 or 2 gens left or you are toast. If it's 3 gens down and I have few hooks, then yeah, I switch to proxy camp/tunnel because there is really no choice.
On a side note, when I see an unhook and there's a injured survivor and a full health survivor running off, it makes perfect sense to go after the injured in early game. Again, the goal is to take out a survivor to slow the game. Trying to balance the hooks is not your job.
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Seeing survivors run at you because they have DS pisses me off. I usually down and wait 30 seconds to void it which I am sure frustrates them to no end. But it was never intended to be used how they are using it in red ranks.
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I play without DS just fine.
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DS isn't required to survive. It's definitely a helpful tool, and one of the best ones if you want to play greedy. But overall? Not at all. As long as there's an obsession in the game, you don't have to have DS.
In my own experience as a Killer and Survivor, usually, players who tunnel are inexperienced, unconfident, or already lost. (For example, if you tunnel someone off hook in EGC, or in my case, I'm not a very confident killer player, despite having over 1k hours in the game, and sometimes I get wayyyy too flighty about how fast gens are going, and tunnel. A really bad habit, I know- especially since killers can get so much more powerful with less gens being done, but it's something I need to work on.) They also will tend to tunnel either the really experienced player (usually this is because the killer is inexperienced, and are just angry someone looped him all game), or one of the weak loopers of the team. (A simple rule of thumb is that you don't have to be good to hold M1- and it's super easy free pressure.)
Honestly, I don't mind tunneling. It's definitely annoying since you get fewer points at the end of the game, and it's boring as a survivor- but I will admit, it can really make the game more bearable as a Killer. Imho, DS doesn't really do much to help you stop tunneling unless you're in pretty specific circumstances- because if the killer wants you dead, the DS won't stop them. All it will do is buy you a little more time. (Which, don't get me wrong, time can win the game, but it won't guarantee you survive.)
So nah, DS isn't necessary. Helpful, great perk, but not necessary.
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I survive just fine, and I never run DS. I consider it a wasted Perk slot.
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Kindred is more important. I always run it over ds. I survive much more often.
Everyone wants ds base kit, kindred is where it's at.
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