I have come to the conclusion that Survivor Queues are bad because Killers are BORED
Good, you clicked. Now hear out my crackpot theory.
Around two or three years ago, the queuing situation was the complete opposite. Survivor Queues were near instant and Killer queues were 15 minutes and longer. Today, it's the other way around, though not quite that bad yet (I get a game in like 5 minutes)
A lot of people are saying it's because so many people quit playing killer because it's too hard.
Not surprisingly, that's the same reasoning we gave 2 years ago when there weren't enough Survivors for all the killers to play against.
But here's the thing.
I am pretty sure, and most old timers will agree with me, that the game today is easier for killers compared to it was 2 years ago.
A lot of buffs and nerfs happened along the way, but it's hard to argue that the game is easier for survivors now than it was 2-3 years ago. A lot of people here seem to think otherwise, but that's almost entirely demonstrable to be false.
So why is it that the length of your queue is inversely proportional to how easy the game is for you?
My theory? Survivors and Killers get bored when the game is too easy, so they stop playing. It's the only reason I can think of why when the game was harder for killers, there were more killers playing, and now that the game is harder for survivors, there are more survivors playing.
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How is the game easier for survivors when loops are now all unsafe, infinites are gone, double pallets dont exist unless bugs, double jungle gyms pallets and windows are gone, tl walls pallets are gone, double windows shack is gone, double windows cow loop is gone, toolboxes are useless unless you use bnps commodius and wire spool, insta heals are way weaker than they used to be, flashlight saves require skills and timing, pallet vacuum is gone.
Surely playing killer might be hard for some people but saying that playing survivor is easier than it used to be is quite disingenous
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My survivor queues are near instant all day up until night time and then the times even out, they're about 20 - 30 seconds at that time.
If you play at a set specific time most days then you're always going to see the same "type of lobbies", if i played early morning where I am, my killer lobbies are always 4+ minutes and my survivor lobbies instant, if I play mid afternoon, both my survivor and killer lobbies can be either fast or slow, at night time, around 7+PM my killer lobbies are faster than my survivor ones but my survivor ones are by no means long.
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First of, can you explain why people derank, if they dont like easy games?
Also, swf is basicly easymode, shouldn´t we see less of them if you are right?
Until the mori nerf, i used to play both sides (even though i played survivior the majority of time). Now i play survivor exclusive again.
And thats not because killer was too easy, but because swf got an advantage you cant handle if you dont have a main killer or play killer the majority of your time, aside from the matchmaking regularly placing me out of my skill level.
Also notice, that since the change, my survivor matches are way better than before. I think that is because a lot of player seem to play more active than before, even though i just got some games where no other survivor ever finished (or touched) a gen.
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Methinks you didn't read what I said.
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The only time I really play survivor is when I'm last second doing challenges and sometimes I play survivor for prolonged periods because BHVR keeps adding garbage unfun challenges that ruin games because they take too long to do by normal means when there are other challenges to do when everyone has a limited amount of time.
Cleanse Totems - There are a set amount of totems each game and the longer I waste in a game not doing totems the more I'm not finishing other challenges. I pretty much mindlessly look for totems and end my own game by any means.
Complete Generators - Mind numbingly boring - Waste so much time because realistically I can only do 1-2 gens a game on average so the last survivor challenge for this was basically play 20 survivor games.
Point being - You can clearly tell when a survivor is blankly playing just to rush battlepass challenges - As killer I see it all the time. They rush their Battlepass challenges and escape or suicide as fast as possible. At this point I do the same thing now because I want to play killer, I want my challenges done and I don't want to waste time doing poorly designed challenges that are so mind numbingly boring and take away from the battlepass. The battlepass ruins games and it forces people to switch to a different role breaking the amount of players per side.
The battlepass should have Common Challenges and Unique Challenges
Common challenges should always be active throughout the entire battlepass and have 4 tiers that give a milestone reward each time you reach a tier. For example Complete 10 / 20 / 30 / 40 Generators with 30k BP each milestone. Meanwhile you can do other challenges as you do these challenges. Same thing for killers on their own grindy challenges. That way I can focus on the Hook 4 Survivors during EGC while not having to worry about doing some mundane task taking away from those.
Yes I'm 100% blaming the battlepass on what you're mentioning on OP. It's ruining this game with how it's designed. Most of the killer challenges are easy. Most of the survivor challenges are boring and take forever and are honestly frustrating and take away from the game.
No one likes the Generator / Totem Challenges with how they are now.
No one likes the ultra specific challenges you'll only have a chance to get 1 out of 10 games unless you farm to get them
No one likes having to constantly switch sides just to unlock rewards
Don't say "Just don't do them" because the game reminds me every damn time I enter the lobby that the battlepass exist by saying YOU HAVE NEW REWARDS and it's just a blank tile.
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Survivor queues are almost instant during the daytime, killers take up to 15 minutes to find a game here.
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I think it's more of peoples logic when on the title screen. Late night in my region is the biggest issue for ques. After work would you rather relax and play survivor? Or would you play killer, which by nature feels competitive? Not saying you have to play each side as cookie cutter. Just that most people rather slam a couple of beers and run around with their buds.
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Survivor is hard?
Randoms can be frustrating, but its not hard.
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First of all not everyone deranks. I run into a deranker every day but they are not the majority.
Second of all how many SWF are there in proportion to the Solo Q? The last official stat we got for that was a "very low percentage." And actually if my theory were true you'd see the opposite of what you expect: you''d see more SWF propportionally because the ones who already had easy games and got bored quit, so only the try hards are left doing SWF.
So I assume you believe that the game is easier now for survivors compared to 2 years ago?
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I've been playing this game since the pandemic started. And up until this point, they been nerfing killers.
They nerf survivors by reworking maps and getting rid of infinite loops.
They even buff niche survivor perks.
Before someone gives me 1 example of killer buff, just go look at the amount of nerfs before claiming that killers got buffs.
EDIT: The game is already too easy for survivors as I escape about 60-70% of my matches. I still play survivor.
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The shift in cue times happened a little before the Oni release, and it was gradual at first, til Ruin was nerfed, when it jumped massively, and whenever a new killer is released it decreases massively.
And honestly, no, killer is as hard as it's ever been, if not harder. Mistakes are punished more than ever, and a diminished amount of survivor resources on maps has been outweighed by the discovery that holding W is a thing. Maps may be more balanced, but that's countered by the ever increasing fervour that survivors have for generators. A year ago my average trial time was about 15 minutes, now it's around 8.
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In the EU it's like that. I think users on this forum use their experience with queues in a specific region make too many generalizations to other areas.
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In my opinion, it's caused by the imbalanced difficulty of getting to Red Ranks.
As Killer, unless you play Legion, it's fairly difficult to pip and get to Red Ranks. There is nothing to boost you and you have to be at least semi-competent to make it there and stay.
As Survivor, it's extremely easy to pip, even as a Solo. You can be boosted by SWF (like me) and never de-rank even if you belong in Green Ranks.
This causes a massive amount of Survivors in Red Ranks, but not a lot in Purple or below. This allows Killer queue's to skyrocket for those in those Ranks, but, it means that Red Ranked Killers will almost always have an instant game.
Additionally, Red Ranked Survivors will face longer queue times, but Purple and below will generally have short queues.
Just my opinion, based off Xbox NA Servers.
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But this was true 2 years ago, but 2 years ago we had too many killers and not enough survivors.
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I would say the opposite, survivor stayed the same for all these years and survivors have adapted the playstyle that never really changed, meanwhile alot new killers and mechanics have been brought into the game. Some more powerfuil then others, but different playstyles. Its one thing to master 1 killer, but its something else to stop good survivors.
As always, good survivors> good killers
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Ok, so for you the killer situation has not improved at all. Ok.
But has it gotten worse?
Ruin nerf and Nurse nerf was big, sure, but so was the Mettle and DS nerf. Then Maps and clothes were made brighter. Then EGC was introduced. Then maps were reworked to remove all the safe palettes and god loops. Etc.
Sure Ruin was nerfed, but now we have Undying/Ruin instead, which is just as oppressive.
Mistakes for survivors are punished even harder than they used to be, because every map has been reworked to be much harder.
Back 2 years ago Survivors also started genrushing -- it was due to the healing nerfs. Survivors havent genrushed any faster now than they did 2 years ago, and in fact genrushing has been severely nerfed thanks to numerous killer perks and abilities that punish genrushing, along with toolboxes becoming useless.
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Honestly, yes, killer has gotten worse as the game becomes more balanced. Everyone else talks about how they only get potatoes, but the the more the game gets balanced the more survivors lean towards slamming generators. Two years ago, killer was much easier by virtue of survivors just not doing their task. Not because of Ruin, not because of broken killers and add-ons, but because survivors didn't have this laser focus on popping gens.
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Can you give me a source of your last official stat? Because the last one i saw, swf were about 50% of all games, so i have no idea where that "very low percentage" comes from.
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They have nerfed both killers and survivors since the quarantine started. They have also buffed niche perks on both sides. Example: Tinkerer, niche perk that almost nobody used now is one of the strongest perks in the game and an S-Class perk.
In fact if you look at Dennis Reep perk rankings you'll find that there are now 7 S-Ranked perks as per the community, and 0 S-Ranked Survivor Perks.
Why don't you also look at the amount of nerfs survivors have gotten since March last year? You are pretending that only Killers have been nerfed, this isn't even remotely true.
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Well your numbers aren't too far off. The alst time we had stats for this released about 50% of games have an SWF of some sort in it. But that doesnt mean 50% of players were SWF. Roughly 50% of players were solo, and the smaller percentage of people were in an SWf of some sort. And of course, the 4-man SWF Commando Squads are only around 4% (if even that, not all of thse 4-mans are commando squads).
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There's some truth to what you said, but the reason I disagree is that that already happened 2 years ago. During the healing nerf because the game got more "balanced"' towards killer survivors ended up playing more efficiently and genrushing instead of healing. This is what gave birth to the entire DS/Dead Hard/Adrenaline/Mettle builds that terrorized killers at the time. People just weren't healing anymore and relied on 2nd chance perks and Adrenaline to just tank the killer while genrushing.
I would argue that the game hasn't gotten harder for killer since that era. It's really gotten much easier.
But you might be correct. I really don't know. Maybe killer is harder today than it was 2 years ago. But I really doubt it. A lot and I do mean a LOT has changed to make life much easier for killers now.
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I'd hardly call reworking the best survivor perk in the game into still being the best survivor perk a nerf. In some ways, it's more oppressive because you could at least dribble if you were near a hook before and there was a disadvantage to not being the obsession. Now, you just instant DS if you meet the requirement, obsession or not. Also Enduring worked on old DS so getting hit with it wasn't as punishing, until they decided to buff new DS to counter Enduring, then nerf Enduring to no longer work on DS, and then leave DS buffed despite the change to Enduring. DS is the strongest its ever been besides release, don't even know why it's still classified as an obsession perk because it's meaningless.
As for ruin, ruin undying is definitely a thing. But ruin requires pressure from the killer which can vary wildly depending on the killer used, unlike old ruin which carried by itself. It's oppressive for sure but only if the killer and player is good, definitely not on the same level as old ruin.
Map reworks have toned down the amount of safe things that survivors can do, but there are still a lot of maps that need changing. Coldwind farm and Haddonfield are especially notorious.
We gotta deal with DS UB DH/SB 4th perk, which just lets them blatantly do ######### right in your face and get away with it, we got keys to deal with, we got giant maps like Purgatory, obscure vision maps like Yamaoka and Coldwind, great wall of Haddonfield. That's ignoring other factors like toxic individuals which is just salt in the wound of already stressful situations or SWFs. At the end of the day, there are less killers playing because its becoming insufferable to play as.
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Pip system was changed about a year ago.
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I dont know what all the "the game is easier for killers than 2 years ago"-talk is about.
I mean, yes, it is true, but the game being only 70% in favor of survivors instead of 80% still puts the killer at the disadvantage (beware, made up numbers!, just to show why it means nothing).
But then again, just under 50% is not my understanding of a "very low percentage".
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So in other words, we should nerf killers to reduce survivor queues?
Brilliant idea! I can´t wait to see the new queues!
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Alright so here's what I think the deal is.
People eventually get burnt out on any game. Playing the same thing for the 100,000th time is just not going to be as fun as the games in the 50-200 range(ish). So yes I'm sure both long time killers and long time survivors are quitting.
Here's the thing though... I'm pretty sure a lot more new Survivors stick around.
Firstly, Survivors can play with friends. That alone makes nearly any game more "sticky". Killer is a strictly solo experience unless you have exactly 5 people and do a KYF.
Secondly, the Survivor base perk set is far superior to the Killer's base perk set and the set of perks they can get with only Bloodpoints is insane while Killers almost have to spend shards to get their best stuff. Seriously, as any Survivor you can run Kindred, We'll Make It, Spine Chill, and Resilience and have a reasonably solid perk load out. Get just the Teachables from Bill and Meg, now you're running Sprint Burst, Adrenaline, Borrowed Time, and Unbreakable. That is the survivor meta right there minus Decisive Strike. As a base set Killer your best options are Whispers, Bitter Murmur, Sloppy, and NOED and 2 of those barely work for Huntress. What's the current Killer meta? BBQ, Ruin, Undying, Tinkerer. That's on 4 separate killers. 1 paid, 2 shard, and 1 free and the perk from the free killer is the least important. The previous killer meta wasn't any better, with BBQ, Pop, Corrupt, and one more of your choice. That's another 1 paid, 2 different shard, and 1 wild card.
Thirdly, the set of Killers that are given for free are kind of pathetic. Wraith kind of needs both good addons and good perks to function and all 3 of his teachables are pretty bad. Trapper requires Bags to be good and his teachables max out at "Huh, that's kinda nice". Hillbilly admittedly is both pretty good and is fairly approachable but that got worse after his rework, though his teachables are all pretty solid now. Huntress can be difficult and her teachables suck. Nurse is crazy difficult but has arguably the best teachables in the bunch.
Fourthly, the fact that there's not as many high rank killers as there needs to be means that newbie killers are much more likely than newbie Survivors to get pulled into games they have no business in. Like a rank 16 ending up against a crew of all Greens. A fresh green ending up against a full Red Squad or 3 reds and a Purple. Of course, the newbie will get stomped and if it happens too much, the newbie may not keep going.
In short, being a new killer is a lot like trying to deal with a rosebush. It looks really nice but if you aren't careful you will get your arms scratched to hell. It really shouldn't be surprising that a lot of them don't stick around. A few of the free killers need buffs, the Killer base set desperately needs buffs or reworks and Legion should be made the 6th free Killer.
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Have you tried playing killer on console? There's a reason there's so many console survivors, it's nearly impossible to play killer on console.
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Speaking of console. Someone also made a post about crossplay.
Is the reason we have so many survivors now because of the influx of crossplay survivors? I only play PC I don't play console DBD at all.
Could be that's what I missed.
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Firstly, Survivors can play with friends. That alone makes nearly any game more "sticky". Killer is a strictly solo experience unless you have exactly 5 people and do a KYF.This is actually a very good point.
I also get what you mean about the base perks on both sides. Killer definitely has a harder time gearing up for optimum builds.
Are the majority of new killers really ending up against high rank survivors? That would definitely be a big turn off from the game. Low rank survivors going up against high rank kilelrs used to be very common but I havent been in low ranks since forever so I don't know what the matchmaking is like these days. I am a low rank killer right now, though, but I don't play much killer anymore and I haven't been going up against absurdly higher rank survivors surprisingly. They are within my skill level more or less and the matches are ok. I always thought the higher the killer rank goes the harder it gets, because now your'e going up against survivors who know what they're doing. At low rank killer is not so bad for me.
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I agree with you; it is a crackpot theory. Players get bored for all sorts of reasons, but the most common one is isn't difficulty. It could be the new content simply isn't impressive currently. The Twins didn't thrill a lot of people. There are regions where there is no delay, so that also scuttles your theory. Ques get faster and slower all the time. I notice mine are affected by the time of day.
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And we have developpers trying to balance the game for killer vs SWF
All this DbD thing is a big joke, no one is playing SWF, SWF + trioQ is representing 15% of the games, little more than 1 game out of ten. And we are hearing killers crying EVERYDAY about how their experience is terrible because of SWF... meanwhile we know kill rate is around 70% for killers.
This community, especially killer mains (most of them), is completely dishonest concerning the state of the game. More we get official stats, more we clearly see that Killers are highly favored.
So 2 possibilities :
- either there are mostly terribly noobie killer mains coming here to cry
- either the killer community is deliberately lying to continue to have easy games
I really don't understand how we can still have ppl here posting threads about how the killers are at a disadvantage.
When there were infinite loops, dozens of safe pallets and that, as survivors, we had 3+ escapes every games in red rank, i have never complained about how hard and unfair it was to play survivor... i was piping up every time, doing more than enough points everytime...
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Ah so you're saying that my region (SE Asia) is actually just having a killer shortage, there actually isn't a killer shortage problem in general.
Well that makes sense. Do you think that killers are bored with the game and leaving though? For other reasons other than difficulty.
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I don't think playing survivor is easy but I would say in most games it is a lot less stressful. And less players want to subject themselves to the stress of playing killer.
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I just think (and have experienced) these things run in cycles. I wouldn't suggest reading too much into it. Sometimes the Ques will be longer and sometime shorter. My advice if you find one is a shorter wait than the other, play that one for a bit until it shifts. And if you are impatient, and you have friends, throw a custom game together. That option is available 24/7 with ZERO wait time. :)
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But I am a survivor. What nerf? I know the maps were reworked to buff killer. Around April or so, the gens got reworked so there's a slight nerf when gen rushing w 4 survivors glued to it.
All the perks I normally use didn't get any nerf. I'm not saying ur wrong, maybe I am totally wrong. But what other nerfs were there.
I did a simple Google search and all I saw was ppl talking about killer nerfs and survivors nerfs were like from 2018 and stuff.
Idk what happened back in the days other than what I read from old ppl and streamers. I only started around March and I've been survivor. I'm still a survivor.
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I don't think there is more survivors than killers, it's the ranking thats messed up. Before when rank reset was a red rank was put back to green rank. Now a red rank gets only put back to rank 5. So there is a TON of red rank survivors (with a huge amount of them who are really bad).
Meanwhile playing killer in red rank can be very frustrating so lots of killers willingly derank to play in purple or green ranks.
BHVR should rework the rank reset again and make it like before, it would 100% make queue times better.
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Where are you taking those numbers from? From a 2 years old chart?
Like... really?
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October 2020 - 2 years old ?
You have almost 6000 posts on this forum, you are camping here everyday and you don't know the last official stats ?
And here are November 2019 stats
Yup, nothing has changed but hey, as i said, some ppl here are clouding the issue.
This forum is the Matrix, clearly.
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Survivors adapting never
(some new interesting play styles tho)
still running the same 5 perks ever since bill came out ds unbreakable deadhead either bt or adrenaline that sounds like a lot of adaptation over the 2or 3 years it's been out
Edit( I know not everyone runs this but keep track and you'll see how many people run 2 or all of these perks)
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And where exactly are the 15% SWF stats from? I can´t see them on those charts...
You talk of SWF being a little more than 1 of 10 matches. So, where do those stats come from?
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Read the complete thread maybe ? I'm not your mom. Stats have been posted on page 1.
Posted by a mod in Feb 2020.
As i have said, 6000 posts here, all day long on this forum and you know so little about it... sad
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Bro ######### nerf trapper and freddy buff nurse rework pluage to always have her corrupt power it's all about those stats
This is clearly not due to a lot of killers leaving because there is better games that are more broken (cyber punk ahh hem) and had nothing with questionable changes like the ds stun being increased from 3s to 5s
Because enduring made the stun meaningless but then change enduring to only affect pallets
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I feel like the issue isn't the kill rate but that it was so annoying to get the kill that the chase wasn't really fun like yes they may of got the kill but didn't feel worth it
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Nah the problem is that it's so easy to down a survivor now (and then to kill him) that's there is no challenge.
What is the point to play an easy game without any challenge ? We play multiplayers games for the challenge to be confronted against other players, with a brain and the capacity to outsmart us.
Imagine playing Counter Strike against bots, all day long ?
It's how DbD feels atm as survivors are often terrible at the game and have no more options to survive.
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I mean the killer gameplay is pretty boring 9 out of 10 Times.
Its either crush the survivor team easily. Wich is boring because there is no challenge
Or you get crushed by the survivor team which is unfun.
1 out of 10 it is a close match that go either way and is actually fun.
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Yes, it is the global state of the game, for both sides i guess. But BHVR will never adress the issue and the game will die.
As a survivor, seeing a 4k when the game was tense, fun with many mindgames etc, i have no problem with it.
As a killer, seeing 4 escapes when the game was tense, fun with many mindgames etc, i have no problem with it.
But at the moment, even when i pipe and get a win, i'm still frustrated as nothing is fun anymore, there is always something broken/unfair coming in the way. It's impossible to explain, but it's the way it is. You can win or loose, you will still be frustrated.
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No mod has answered on this thread. Do you mean the chart with the doctor as picture? That chart IS 2 years old.
Btw, why do you need to attack me personally?
I just asked a question. A question, YOU don´t seem to be able to answer.
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Do you troll me ? 🤣
FEBRUARY 2020 is 2 years old for you ? Ok...
I guess you have some problems to understand english.
- On this thread, someone posted the SWF stats picture, on 1st page
- It has been previously posted on the forum by a mod in Feb 2020
Omg... i will stay polite but jeez...
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I think that's to narrow of a view to take.
Basically the killer experience is often negative, because the mechanic of the game is to essentially waste the killers time. Its an exercise in denial, which is basically a recipe for frustration for many players.
So you can have a consistent game experience as survivor where even if you have potato team mates you can achieve a lot in your role as solo, or play with your friends, or you can have highly variable games as killer that range from fun to highly abusive.
You rarely see posts that say I'm to scared to play survivor but you get that a lot for killer, now why is that?
Because in an asymmetric game where you are trying to survive against a killer, what you are trying to survive against should be a substantial threat, but in gameplay terms its really not. Part of the problem being that items that make the killer a substantial threat are often maligned due to how they can be abused, original moris, iri head etc etc.
The more balanced the game becomes the more watered down it becomes. The killer play experience suffers as a result. A less experienced survivor can often crutch out on their team but killers don't have that option.
Add to that seriously screwed up match making due to population asymmetry and you have a rather dismal killer play experience especially for new players.
So older players get bored and leave, new players get turned off killer by the aforementioned frustrations. So now you have asymmetric recruitment and retention. Hence survivor queues will continue to increase during peak game times.
There will always be times of day when one queue is faster than the other and that will swing but look at your queue times during peak play and you'll probably find long survivor queues and instant killer queues with really messed up match making simply to push the games through.
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