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I think the Clown changes are ridiculous
This can't even be called a rework. More like a survivor buff. Purple gas stays the same, but now we have yellow bottles! Guess what they do? Speed up a "player". So survivors get a speed boost off of the Clown's new ability! 🤡 Amazing.
I was cracking up, honestly, on the part of the dev tapes where they were saying, "The gas is an incentive to push survivors to areas you want them to go to!" As killer, I want the survivors closer to ME, so I can hit them! How is that hard to understand?!
So basically Clown is the exact same as he was, with potential to be even worse if survivors don't use the speed boost that YOU gave them to go where you want.
Now I feel bad for @TheClownIsKing
Comments
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What they said makes sense.
As it stands currently, Clown’s greatest asset is that he exerts WAY more control on where survivors go during a chase than any other killer.
If there is somewhere I absolutely do not want the survivors to go, I already know where to throw gas in the survivors path to make that survivor change direction. Despite the survivor avoiding the gas, this planning still usually results in me getting in a hit.
Adding in something I can throw that ENCOURAGES where I want them to go AS WELL, will give Clown even more chase control, rather than the current “well I know where the survivor ISN’T going, unless they’re suicidal”
An easy example I can already think of is to throw a tonic at the shack if I can predict the survivor heading towards it. I can also quickly follow that up with throwing an antidote at another close by area that has no pallet or vault.
It’s about tricking the survivor to go exactly where Clown wants survivors to go for an easy hit. The survivors speed boost doesn’t mean anything the moment Clown also runs through the same gas.
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I mean if you aren't sure about the speed bottles you can always just use them to get around the map to defend gens so that's an easy to use buff.
As for using the speed bottles in chase we just gotta wait and see. The PTB will show what the speed increase can be effectively used for in chase. Otz will probably test the speed bottles at every single loop in the entire game lol.
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This sums it up very well. I would like to add that it is also usable in straight line chases as shown in the video. Since the gas has a delay before giving the buff you can throw it a little ahead of yourself and the gas will activate by the time survivor passes it and Clown reaches it.
Only possible problem I can see with this is the lack of map mobility it gives. Yes you can use it to get a 10% speed to traverse the map but you still get the pretty hefty 3 second cooldown after a few throws so it may hurt you more than it saves you time.
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Lets talk about skill for a moment tho. A rank 1 survivor doesn't care about the yellow gas, they know your trying to bait them with it. Making it useless in that situation.
The main reason I dont like this "rework" is that I felt clown needed a lil bit of map awareness or control, and instead they just made him chase even better.
These aren't the worst changes in the world. But I wouldn't call them good.
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If it works the way i imagine it, its absolutely useless...
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Yeah I'm not really sure on the Tonic. Like I'm not going to run into a deadzone or break my pathing for a speed boost just so the killer can also get a speed boost. That would be beyond stupid.
Why would I as a survivor lead the killer toward their own speed boost if it's out of my way? The entire concept makes absolutely no sense from that angle.
It kind of makes sense if it's thrown ahead on a delayed release and the Clown gets it during the natural pathing of a chase. But we're talking about bloodlust 2 here, in essence.
I want reasons to play something other than Nurse and Spirit against the best players.
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I don't understand why so many people think they will throw the speed boost at the survivors. The idea is that you throw between you and the survivor so you get the speedboost and they don't.
If you allow the survivor to get the speed boost you just f'ed up
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So you have 4 bottles to slow them down and 4 bottles that you can give yourself a speed boost with? That sounds pretty good? I mean it takes a little while for gas to turn yellow so if you hit survivor running with the other gas the only one that gets a speed boost is Clown when getting there? And three seconds to reload sounds like an overall pretty big buff?
Addons though will get nerfed pretty sure about that.
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As pointed out in another thread, Clowns speed only goes from 4.6 to 5 metres per second. With only 4 bottles, and probably only having an active effect that lasts as long as tonics (2 seconds when out of the gas AOE), then it’s likely that the 3 second reload is going to cancel out any time saved once every bottle is used to get somewhere.
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He's getting that better control too though?
Cutting his reload time by 40% alone gives him more control because he's burning less time reloading. In addition to that, Clown should be able to use the Speed bottles to patrol Generators faster to cut down on the amount of time he's not in a chase.
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It’s likely to save roughly 5 to 6 seconds of travel time (including a deduction for 3 second reload once reaching an intended destination), if they’re spaced cleverly (presuming the effect works EXACTLY the same as tonic. I.e. speed boost while in gas AoE, lasts a further 2 seconds outside of gas AoE).
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Not to mention mixing gases canceled them. You can bait a yellow bottle and kill it before an out positioned survivor can benefit from it.
I think the problem people have generally is they want a brute force buff but this is a "4d chess" mindgame potential buff.
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5.06 actually according to Peanits, it seems to based on your movement speed
So it would be an increased effect if you have other movespeed bonusses in theory
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I like the way they've done it, it adds more depth to the character, but it'll be interesting to see how much it benefits him. 😁
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Pretty much. Clown already needs mental gymnastics to be played well. This will make him more difficult. There’s still a lot of devious stuff that can potentially be done, but players that like simple, straight forward ways to use a power are still going to be turned off of Clown.
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Hmm yeah you got a point but I guess there's gonna be new addons affecting the speedy bottles possibly allowing you to make them viable for mobility.
The devs love to keep low to mid rarity addons about power values so I think there's gonna be a yellow or green addon increasing the speed buff or effect-duration.
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You can literally just not use the antidote, completely ignore it and now this update has just gave Clown a faster reload and add-on pass
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I'm waiting for the PTB before I say good or bad.
Could be very interesting and fun to use, or terribly useless in a chase. If we are predicting how it will work, I see trying to lure people with the speed bottles as something the devs hope players will use but may wind up being a tactic that doesn't work in game. Like Slingers intended counter being breaking loose from the chain. Never happens because the Slinger just waits for a clear shot. Survivors will probably see you chuck a speed bottle to nothing and just continue to their next pallet. (Just an example of devs wanting a killer to be played a certain way vs the actual way they're played. Not bashing devs, just how killer ideas tend to work.)
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depends. cause you get it too. and you can redirect them.
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True
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Afterpiece Tonic and Antidote share the same resource.You don't have 4 bottles of each but 4 that can be either one of them
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You still can use them as boosts for map pressure, so useless is the last thing they are. In a chase wise, we'll have to wait.
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It's only gonna be bad for the clown if he uses it in a strong loop and doesn't throw the slowdown gas, but why would you not throw the slow down and just give the survivors a speed boost? If someone is dumb enough to try and catch survivors with the yellow gas at somewhere like killer shack then they deserve whatever happens, I would use it more for map pressure or for when a survivor you're in chase with uses balanced landing or sprint burst to flee an area you can catch them faster because they aren't gonna backtrack to the gas.
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Hmm, this changes things.
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Yep,pretty pointless as a means of more mobility
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That means that the basic idea of using the speed bottles strictly for map pressure, then quickly switching to tonic to slow people down in chase kinda fails cause you would have to reload after finding someone. If the reload is short enough, might be still possible.
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Yep,it's not worth it except some edge cases maybe
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Ah well then that is pretty lame. So buffed reload speed and probably nerfed addons..neither a buff or a nerf for Clown then.
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I really think the big Point of the Clown rework is that He is now much Harder to master
You Must know when is the right time to throw a yellow bottle.
I really like the Clown Rework so far and im Sure He will be very stronger in good Hands still the Update ist very Survivor sided
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Survivors will only go in clouds that benefit them such as making it to another rotation of a loop or another pallet. Skilled survivors will never go into the yellow gas if it does not benefit them. Its basic skill for survivor understand basic distancing & routing. Almo gave me good laugh when he was describing that. I always smile whenever you say something along lines of "survivor won't be able to escape chases vs Clown" as if survivors are suppose to win chases vs killer over... waste killer time in chases to complete generators.
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My problem is that it's even a possibility, in any capacity. That would be like if Pyramid Head's trails sped him up, but also the survivors. I'm against mechanics in this game that give you as well as your opponents an advantage. It makes no sense.
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Faster reload? I guess I missed that, because I watched Tru3's reaction and he simply glossed over it. I still don't agree with even the possibility that a survivor gets a speedup from a killer's ability. I guess I will just ignore it if I don't find it useful.
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Yeah, down to 3 seconds from 5 I think it was. I don't like the speedup for survivors either
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It's to balance it out. If you can get survivors in the old gas and yourself in the new gas you catch up to them almost 3 times as fast as a normal 115% killer. It's pretty damn nuts. in theory ofcourse
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That’s the trick though.
Tonics coming into contact with antidote clouds immediately cancel each other out. Trick a survivor to head towards a speed boost, take it away from them before they run through it.
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what trick. survivor's running faster are never good for killer. I am not sure how this concept is difficult to understand and one other comment, RHPF is beatable and is not any different from facing any other instant down killer. Clown's current add-on are somewhat impactful and well designed so an add-on pass seems like negative for him.
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Good grief.
Let me explain it as if we were in kindergarten.
Yellow cloud make survivor go faster.
Survivor try reach yellow cloud because Clown try trick survivor.
Before survivor get to yellow cloud, Clown throw pink cloud at yellow cloud.
Oh no. No more cloud for survivor.
Survivor me no go faster.
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Yea its pretty bad. Why even bother doing all that work with the antidote? "Trick" the survivors you aren't gonna "trick" good survivors with more that 1 hour in the game lmao. Just throw your regular bottles to slow survivors down. The fact that you still only have 4 bottles makes me wonder why would they bother adding a useless antidote mechanic. The only reason I would use antidote is not in a chase but getting 10% faster to a gen. People who look at this clown update and genuinely think its good are only clown mains who only play clown and wanted something different but got this instead and are trying to justify why its good.
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Do you really think that's going to work? I mean, survivors are not stupid. If they are in a safe area they will refuse to leave, a 10% speed is not worth it.
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I think the "encourage survivors" thing simply won't work. It makes totally no sense to use it, at least I can't think of a single situation where it actually helps. Left through the gas or right to the safe pallet/window. Yeah lets take the speedboost, where I 100% safely can assume that the Clown will get the same speedboost aftr walking through the gas, making the speedboost redundant. Like what? In which situation should I ever prefer the gas as survivor? This idea actually requires dumb survivors to work out.
The only use of the antidote is if the clown is able to perfectly time it correct, so that the gas activates after the survivor leaves and just buffs the Clown. Still, having a slower survivor is the bigger benefit compared to a faster Clown, because there is no change in the duration of the chase. Let's say a regular chase is 100% followed by 115% and a tonic means 90% followed by 115%. The duration to catch up a specific distance is the same if you change it to 100% followed by 125%. The only difference is, that the survivor will need less time to the next vault/pallet. So why use the antidote at all? Only to travel faster across the map, (also @Yamaoka ) but that will consume your chase tool, so you need to refill again once you find a survivor.
Sure, mechanics might work different than expected, I might miss some things, we will see on the PTB or maybe weeks after. But that is what I currently see.
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so you wasted 2 bottles, while you could also have one bottle wasted and slowed down the survivor. Not sure in which scenario that "bait" would work, as the time needed to throw 2 bottles needs quite a bit of free space without vaults, which seems like a plain tonic is the better choice on the plain open to prevent the survivor from getting to the vault in time. If you talk about baiting a survivor away from a pallet into the open, why should a survivor do that, knowing that the clown will get the same buff anyway, even if he doesn't cancel it?
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A Clown worth their salt is clearly going to make sure a tonic gas is between the survivor and the pallet/vault they’re trying to reach.
Clown is already really good at DISCOURAGING where survivors shouldn’t go. The new antidote will amplify Clowns already excellent ability to control the chase.
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It’s not a waste of 2 bottles if Clown managed the speed boost whilst a survivor is hindered.
Many loops already require 2 bottles as it stands right now anyway.
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your example I was referring was to deny the survivor the baited speed boost. and that would be 2 bottles to keep both at same speed as no bottles. also my other statements about "why go into the open if you have a safe spot next to it" stands
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