HOW is DS STILL not being changed!?!

It's funny that people complain about Undetectable perks like Tinkerer. Just run Spine Chill!

You are right, I will not tunnel a person who was just unhooked doing a generator right in front of my face.

When people complain about Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer, it’s not the Undetectable status that they find problematic. It’s that the killer is notified every time a gen is nearly done, which allows them to chase survivors off the gen for easy regression with Ruin. Not saying whether these complaints are justified or not, but Spine Chill does absolutely nothing to address people’s issues.

But that's what those perks are supposed to do: reward the killer for pressuring gens. He can't stop every gen as it's about to be completed, either because more than 1 gen is about to be done or he's in a chase he can't afford to drop. Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer is strong but it's not the "use these perks and you can't lose" type of combo.

Pretending like until yesterday mori users weren't those trashcan killers who can't get more than 1k without first hook moring people

You obviously haven't played killer very well then I guess?

I can hook 2 other survivors before I find the 1st unhooked survivor and still getting hit by ds.

Tell me with all honesty, how is that still considered tunneling?

The perk is more of an anti momentum perk than a anti tunnel perk.

If you as killer are stronger and more efficient than the survivors you will get punished for it, while the survivors will be rewarded for it?

Make sense?

Nope I didn't think so either.

60s ds timer is way to long, either make it 30s or make it where it deactivates with certain actions.

It's not hard to Balance the perk, the devs are just ignorant and incapable of thinking for logical solutions.

If they nerf a survivorperk the forums overflowing with disbelief and salty people wondering why they nerfed a certain perk.

And the devs listen to them because let's be fair, they don't want 80% of the player base side against them

Me as survivor: Literally stopped using DS because unless I was farmed off the hook I like to actively avoid the killer and heal up or do a relatively safe gen with a lot of progress on it etc

Me as killer: Survivors literally running at me while I’m chasing someone else, jumping in lockers, slow vaulting in my face, holding onto a gen for dear life and it only has 5% progression...

It’s like.. the vast majority of this stuff happens when they aren’t even on death hook and having it later could have actually either saved them or bought someone else a little extra time

This might be an unpopular opinion but an extremely good looper that knows how to use dead hard is much more powerful than DS will ever be.

DS is fine rn.

It wasn't in the past.

It needs to be changed but is also a nessacary evil. Have you been in a non obsession lobby as survivor?

Because Camping and Tunneling are still in the game.

I'm honestly amazed at the amount of ignorance in this thread. DS is nowhere near this unbeatable godhood perk that some people are making it out to be. Is it problematic at the top levels of play because of it's synergy with other perks? Sure, but the idea that every game is being lost because of DS is nonsense. There are plenty of ways to play around it and a lot of killers have ways of making the perk less effective even after being hit.

That being said, it does need a rework, but only to reinforce the idea of penalising hard tunnel rather than in it's current form. What some players conveniently like to ignore is that in nearly all situations where you're hooking regularly enough to get 2 other survivors and then get hit by the first survivors DS you're already steamrolling the game. 5 seconds (actually 3 seconds once you factor in the drop animation) is going to do ######### all. If the person is in a dead zone then the perk might as well be non existent. If you can slug even a couple of survivors then they'll lose DS, potentially unbreakable if they have it and you'll likely force the other 2 off the generators. Does that work in every situation? No, but it's a damn solid strategy most of the time.

There are too many killers who blame DS for their loss rather than poor decision making. Sure, it certainly makes a bad situation worse, but it doesn't suddenly cause you to go from comfortably winning to losing unless you really ######### up. What I'd like to see it changed to is a per hook state mechanic similar to what we have now but on a 30 second timer rather than 60. Maybe make it so that it cant be used from lockers? (not sure as 30 seconds goes pretty quick). Adding mechanics to disable it when interacting with generators, totems or healing another survivor is just ######### as that would be easy to exploit by temporarily switching targets.

The other option would be a diminishing return type mechanic where the killer becomes more resistant to DS the more they're hit with it. The problem here is if they make DS useless, particularly for lower levels of play then killers are going to tunnel with impunity. I know it, you know it and the devs know it as well.

Those of us who have played DbD for a few years know how these devs operate. Survivors have always been the stronger side (generally speaking).

You mean the old DS that let you use enduring to completely counter it or let you just juggle them to the hook?

Yeah, I’ll take that over a full minute of invincibility.

the devs have specifically stated it is NOT an Anti-Tunneling perk... they have not classified it in ANY WAY! this classification was added by the players and no one seems to even want to acknowledge that the perk is being talked about in two ways, one way by the devs internally and omitted externally and the other is the players who will put words in the devs' mouth in order to try to make a point. it can be changed in any way the devs see fit but not the way the players see fit.

HOWEVER given that: it has been left in it's combo and broken state far longer than undying's combo. here is the key to look at undying NEEDS another perk in order to fully work, DS does not. so if you were to put DS and compare it to undying in it's utility DS wins hands down. Pair it with a perk say ruin then undying becomes an annoying thing that only affects killers that can keep heavy gen pressure (since ruin does not affect while working on a gen. DS how ever when paired with UB/Soul Guard/No Mither (yes even this) means that it is fully 1 minute of invincibility! period end of statement. Undying can not be weaponized, how ever DS can. I do not believe hell refuse to believe that the devs INTENDED (and they say that it was only indended to let the survivor get away) to let a survivor get unhooked, then run body blocking for their other friend and then get into a locker to FORCE the DS stun. this is why it is showing the dev's survivor sided view point. and why I will not be anytime soon purchasing anyoutfits, aurec cells or even using iri shards till I see this change. I am a 50/50 survivor-killer player and I am not happy with the bias here. I will buy the rift's battle pass because i don't do that till i hit 70 as I will get the same cells back and did not spend anything new. but i'm not going to spend my iri shards for outfits, because my time is valuable and thus is currency. i probably won't buy any with the current cells i have because i did spend good money to get those that I have. just really don't care I won't be telling anyone else to get the game or if i do i will tell them my point of view and let them decide as i can't stop them from buying how ever I will do my best to minimize what people I know pay out to get the game. I'm so over this.

Whatever the devs have said, it is the only perk stopping killers from tunneling with free reign whenever they decide they want easy games or when they are loosing to secure the win.

As much as people will say ds unbreakable is broken, it's not. There's a difference between a perk combo being "broken" and a perk combo having unwanted side effects, which is the case with ds. At the end of the day majority of ds's use is stopping tunneling, the unwanted side effect however is that sometimes killers will be hit by a ds even when they've hooked someone else and then gone and chased the ds survivor and downed them within 60 seconds.

That doesn't make the perk broken however because the amount of times it even comes into play in this inwanted scenario is very little. That is incredibly different to that of ruin undying ALWAYS coming into play whenever it is used, regardless of whether it is taken out early or not. Don't you remember old DS? THAT was an example of a broken perk because it is something which would practically stop you from getting hooks you deserved and force you to play incredibly differently. At the end of the day yes i agree i think ds needs to be looked at but does it need to be looked at as urgently as some other things in the game like undying? No. Why? Because the amount of times it's unwanted effects actually become a game changer are quite limited and there are always ways to play around it.

1) I never said the perk DS was broken, the combination of it and others is what breaks it.

2) I also acknowledged that undying/ruin (especially) is annoying and needs to be looked at.

3) I never said that undying's change was breaking the perk what so ever and never denied a change would be good.

4) DS how ever on its own can give survivors an escape at end game because of hatch/gate and only two people left. hell I lost a game to DS recently because of this lost ALL 4 survivors to an escape because of DS play at the end of the game. one got out through the hatch becuase he crawled onto it and it forced me to pick him up instead of close the hatch and he ds'd me and hopped out the hatch right away. tell me that isn't broken.. ######### am I supposed to do at that point? wait 1 minute? when they all wait at the gate till he's there? yea it's got some changes to make it a fair perk.

5) ######### the definitions of tunneling and camping. why? camping is barely a thing anymore because you can swoop in and grab off the hook with BT and from any direction. no longer does face camping deny the unhook like it did. tunneling? why that is the killer's version of gen rushing. so remove your tool boxes, brand new parts and you'd see people tunneling less and less why? they won't need to put pressure by removing a combatant to slow gens down.

6) just because a perk makes an unwanted effect is a reason to review it, yet it has been perfectly and blatently ignored by the devs saying things are just right... bullcrap it's just right. every time a killer perk synergizes with another so easily it's nerfed, when a survivor perk synergizes with another so easily it's over looked. I'm not saying DS has to be changed drastically just the UNFUN aspect of DS needs to be removed, as does that of the DS/ub combo or other combo need to be removed. doesn't mean it needs to be nerfed into the ground but a change to make it less overbearing would be a nice nod by the devs to acknowledge the fact that survivors have been getting the lion's share of the buffs and killers the lion's share of the nerfs lately. in the patch information put out on the dev stream killers get minor buffs, major nerfs and one fair buff and survivors get nothing but buffs, even a buff that the killers get will buff the survivors! oh yea lets make something like that for the survivors... oh no that'd anger the survivors because only killers get buffs now!

this is why people are out raged. keys especially along with the offering to move the hatch are op and haven't been dealt with at all but moris were nerfed to the point of uselessness unless you're that much of a better killer than the survivors are. you are quick to point out how it's the only thing that can stop a tunnel.... no actually it isn't because the tunnel aspect of things start with the SAVE... you put the save when the killer is otherwise occupied and don't stay at the hook for any reason you will be very unlikely to be tunneled. stop making risky saves just because you have Borrowed Time! stop unhooking right after the killer hooks someone. or are you sooooo afraid that they will kill themselves on the hook that you have to get the 1000 points? I laugh at that thought.

Better yet, when there is a locker next to a gen, you basically have to leave him alone with the gen, since there is no way to outplay a DS in a locker.