If Ruin + Undying is so bad, why do killers use it/care about it being nerfed? 🤔
"Ruin + Undying gets cleansed at the start of the match and then I'm left with 2 perks. Its soooo easily counterable."
Why do you care then? 🤔 Just apply pressure.
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Just because undying is in play doesn't mean it'll totally protect us from bad RNG.
Not the perks fault that totem spawns suck really badly on some maps.
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Because ruin is the best out of all gen defense perks. When it last a while it feels great, when it doesn't it feels garbage.
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If you don't get to use DS/unbreakable why do you use it? Learn to loop.
See I can do it as well.
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Yeah. Same like "Ruin is not good because it gets broken in 20 seconds". Meanwhile, before it was reworked, nearly everyone used it despite way worse Totem Spots.
Back in the day only The Game had decent Totem Spots and still nearly everyone was running Ruin.
People just like to complain I guess.
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How many killer Perks and associated offerings must be nerf until it satisfies the entitled survivors....
And the devs who listens and caters to them is ridiculous.
I've said it before and I'll say it again.
I've started dbd since the pandemic started, since than, its been a onslaught of killer nerfs.
And the continous entitled survivors who claims to be killer mains who continously defend this act ... and argue against me that somehow killers are not nerfed is ridiculous.
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Nice bait mate
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You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about because since the pandemic there has been way more killer buffs than nerfs
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Since The pandemic is around March of last year. Ur argument is flawed cuz the buffs do not equate to the amount of nerfs.
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Every time I see a Ruin Undying post someone always has to shout "WHAT ABOUT DS UB YOU SURVIVOR MAINWQEGSAYI=EGYBS"
Hey, did you know that DS UB is ALSO an issue? Yea, crazy concept that both Ruin Undying and DS UB are issues, and just because we complain about one of the combos, doesn't mean that we think the other one is ok.
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Cause survivors have a broken and incounterable combo for over 2 years (DS and UB) and nothing is done and probably won't be done. Meanwhile killers got a combo that is counterable and requires them to aPpLy PrEsSuRe to work, but it's gutted ASAP by the devs.
Oh, and Pop got nerfed as well
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same happens with B&C. No one uses it to see auras, but every killer have it and go in the direction of a surv after hooking 😀
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Old Ruin effected everyone from the word go assuming they got a skill check. New Ruin doesn't do anything unless the killer pushes the Survivors off the Gen. If you aren't able to do that in the first 30 seconds and New Ruin gets cleansed, you gained a total of 12 seconds from the guy cleansing it and that's it. On average in those 30 seconds, the 3 teammates on gens will get 0.9 skill checks but could get significantly more. Old Ruin buys you 4s on a good and 1.6s on a great. So you probably got more than just the 12s from cleansing it even if it did only last 30 seconds.
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I guess a lot of people care about the nerf because it only addressed a problematic perk of one side.
Like,i can totally understand that this perk was too oppressive at times and had pretty much 0 synergy with all the other hex totems except ruin (which was not their intention).
But at the same time i think it would have been better to also adjust some unfun/oppressive perks on the other side (e.g OoO) or buff some other killer perks (e.g surge,hex blood favour etc.)
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Most Killers will agree that the original version could be very oppressive when combined with Ruin. That's not really the argument. The argument is that the nerf went a bit too far. Personally, I would have made it only swap a hex once, still make it so that the first lit totem you find isn't automatically Undying in order to get a bit of value out of the swap mechanic, and removed the aura reading if there is another hex totem in play. That way Undying by itself serves a function, but when paired with another hex, it swaps one function for another. This would also not punish Survivors for trying to cleanse.
With the current rework, the value just isn't there. Sure, they have to do two totems instead of one, but that's only two maximum that they need to do. If both are found early, you have two perks get wiped out despite the fact that Undying is supposed to extend the life of your other Hexes. Undying is now only a marginally better option than stacking Haunted Grounds with Ruin. In fact, I would argue that Haunted Grounds is now better at keeping Ruin alive. That's the issue. The new Undying, which is intended to keep Hex perks alive longer, does it worse than other perks which don't actually focus on that function.
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Ruin/undying is best choice. Some time bad RNG u lose ruin in 30 seg, some time survivior have to clean 4 o 5 totem to clean ruin. Another option is POP+CI. Pick another combo is throwin game o hope survivior mistake o play spirit/nurse. The high rate of killes per match is because 80% survivors are bad players or DC/suicide.
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I still wanna know. Why are all y'all killers complaining about ruin + undying getting nerfed when y'all said it was trash anyway? 🤔
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Or perhaps the high rate kill rate is because killers are overpowered to play against SWF
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Im guessing because killers really dont have much meta perks and all their meta perks eventually get nerfed.
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Simple. Because the fact that it is not op doesnt mean its not the best combo at what it does. A lot of other alternitives are just much worse.
Its like an election. Most of the time you dont get the best canidate for a given position, just the best of what was offered.
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Not saying I agree or disagree with the nerf to Undying, but this logic doesn't hold when you apply it to something like "Coup de Grâce," a perk that Killers believed was bad and were upset about being nerfed.
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Go play vs oracle and tell me killer op
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Just to make a point on this:
Ya. There are many perks that are OKAY at best, mediocre most commonly, and down right bad at worst. So when those lesser perks get nerfed, I think it's healthy that Killers bring up how unwarranted it is. CdG was a great example of this, so thanks for bringing it up. I'd also throw Huntress Lullaby and Appraisal in there as well.
That said, it can be doubly frustrating when we see a slew of Survivor perks get buffed, while most of the Killer notes tend to be nerfs. I brought up in another thread that fair does not mean balanced, and just because one side gets nerfed doesn't mean another side should be, but it's also bad optics to see consistent nerfs for one side while the other side sees consistent buffs.
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Doctor rework, leatherface rework, toolboxes nerfed, godloops nerfed, pyramid head was added, blight was added, killer perks were buffed, and now clown is getting reworked. Your argument is flawed cause half of the bad killers have been buffed and are so much better. The only nerf that was impacting was Hillbilly and Undying but that’s only 2 we got all these changes and strong killers
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Wait, who said something about a nerf? It's 100% a buff. Two guaranteed Ruin totems? Hell yeah, count me in.
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Adding a dlc is not a nerf. Doctor was nerfed. Billy was nerfed. U calling a rework as if it's a buff. It's not a buff. It's a nerf.
Yes survivors got some nerf too by map reworks.
Thanataphobia, lullaby, PGTW, mori, undying, and some others I can't think of right now we're all nerfs.
Keys were supposed to be nerfed but it's not.
The nerf is heavily sided on the killers than survivors. It is not equal.
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Because it's not bad, tbh. Especially against solos. Against an organised SWF that have brains, it's useless because they can either have one person hunt for totems while 2 do gens or have 3 people split evenly around the map so the tinkerer proc can't stop gens from popping, but vs solo teams? It's impossible to coordinate with people you can't communicate with, so it ends up being oppressive.
Personally I didn't have an issue with the perk combo outside of it being oppressive to solo play and being almost every game's perks, meanwhile as survivor I rarely even see an obsession in my games (at rank 1)
That said, Undying now has more synergy with more perks, and that is a fact that I love. devour + undying could end up being pretty popular, which is great, imo.
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Why does a thread unironically using a "🤔" not just get instantly locked?
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What buffs hav there been for killers
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Doctor was mega buffed, ######### are you talking about lmao. If someone knows his timing perfectly, he can guarantee a free hit at almost any pallet in the game. And he has map pressure aplenty, now.
As for nerfs being 'more on killers...' you may want to look at more patchnotes from the last year, tbh.
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"Why do you loop if you keep getting caught? Just do gens."
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I honestly dont mind the oppression in solos yes it sucks wen u get potatoes but u actually start feeling the pressure from the killers
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I only run those perks for like build try outs ive been trying recently and I never get to use them so I think they are overrated for the most part. Like I ran DS UB Soul guard and tenacity for 10 games give or take some and I never got use out of it and I was using it to meme at that point I only had one use that helped me escape and maybe once or twice where unbreakable helped me but didnt effect the match and maybe used DS a couple times. I honestly think these perks get the best use with swf so killers overplay the perks. Thats just my opinion though
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Thats not entirely what happened
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I wish we had old ruin even as a survivor main I liked the perk. I started not knowing hot find totems so I hated it but it tought me to hit great skill checks so I wish it came back
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Its trash wen it gets destroyed immediately, when survivors brings maps or totem hunting perks, its very difficult to apply pressure to gens, totems, survivors all thr time and wen ur in a chase someone could already hav broken all the totems. Why dont you try playing as killer and see how difficult it gets
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You mean you literally can't do anything because your solos go looking for totems but also go down instantly, so the tinkerer almost always ends up leading to your gen and you can't do anything about it, so it's auto-lose and probably a de-pip.
I wouldn't mind it if matchmaking were functional. But it's not, and it probably can't ever be, even with MMR.
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Noctis I like you m8 but he has a BIG point. God loop gonzo, maps smaller, leatherface forces pallets to be dropped. The only reason a bubba gets looped is if he uses 1 charhe and not 3 which come back fast enough to not matter. Doctor is buffed he has free whispers mixed with bbq basically. Anti loop and tier 3 can also be like infectious fright and prevents work on gens where every second counts. His add ons and perk synergy with whispers is amazing. Slugging a tier 3 means you can keep tabs on everyone. I was green rank beating multiple swfs even on Ormond when I mained buffed doc. Of course there was some killer needs but tbh I dont think they were NEARLY as bad as the effects on survivors. But I think the game needed it. Also Idk billy seems just as good with cool add ons. Its just that ######### overheat
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I’m annoyed because any strong perk combo for killers always get nerfed. You either play the strongest killers or have to constantly pay for addons.
Meanwhile survivors get super strong game changing perks and have had them forever, and don’t pay anything to use them.
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Its not hard to pip as surv yea the killer may know where your at by tinkerer but now you can get into a chase and earn points u dont always hav to survive to win and thats why i run bt on solos cuz u never know what may happen. And its not all the time when you get bad survs, yea in the lower rank definitly but you can definitely pip solo and 2 pip
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Doctor was a nerf. No longer does the madness stay at tier 2. No longer does the madness bar resets when u stop coming out of it, or when u miss the skill check. It no longer synergizes w lullaby like before.
The thing is, it is a nerf if ur taking away what ppl like to use as killer, and giving them something they didn't ask for.
And using that as 'see! Killers got buffs!'.
Like mori and keys are a fair trade. But mori is taken away while the survivors refuse to give up keys.
That is my point. The trades of nerf and buffs are not equal.
Edit: thanks liking me btw I always had this feeling the entire community is always against me for some reason.
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No you are a logical person who never attacked me so why would I be against you. Btw the lullaby thing was a nerf but kinda needed. I had a game where I COULD NOT hit the skillcheck on badham and I would get double skillchecks back to back. I do believe it should reset if you stop but staying at tier 2 Idk of that was much of a hindrance. Also moris were in need of a nerf way more because keys require a lot of the objectives to be done. Although I do think they should have waited, I believe they were trying to have our interests in hand and thought it would be a favor and didn't expect everyone to get pissy at having to wait
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Because it's the best we've got. What are we gonna use instead? No gen defense? Overrated Pop?
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the level of cringe on the emotis, it hurts
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Everyone used it because it was still the best option. Gens are so damn fast and before undying your options were take a chance with ruin or use pop. Neither of which are that great. Ruin gets found easily in most every game. Pop requires a down and can only be applied to a single gen. Thats basically the 2 options killers had if they wanted to slow the game. People dont like running the same 2 perks but if someone isnt playing an s tier or a tier killer and dont have ruin + undying their chances are slim to none. Meanwhile survivors have a multitude of good perks that border on broken or are already broken. Ds, unbreakable, adrenaline, iron will, sprint burst, dead hard, etc.
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Corrupt + Pop + Oppression is an awesome combo.
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That’s basically your entire build though. It won’t really help on weaker killers who want some chase or utility perks to secure downs in a timely fashion. And the strongest killers hardly even needed perks as it is.
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You could drop Oppression if needed. Killers do just fine with corrupt/pop, myself included.
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thats what the perk combo is for lmao an people say its not good becuase it can easily be ignored or countered
survivor: ruin+undying us unfair an oppressive
also survivors: run ds, bt, dh, sb, unbreakable, ect.
Post edited by Gcarrara on2 -
If you actually think in Solo Ruin/Undying could be easily ignored or countered you never actually played against it in solo. Solo was borderline unwinnable if a killer had the combo and wasn't a complete 4head.
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