DS Complaints
So.. Killers.. can you explain something to me? Yes we all know by now, you guys want DS nerfed.. But do you guys even realize that the sole reason the perk even exists to begin with is due to the way a lot of Killers play? If you didn't resort to tunneling, survivors would have never needed it to begin with.
As a killer main, I've never once had an issue with DS. Why? Because i'd rather lose knowing I refused to tunnel someone.
And we know, we know.. You had that 1 rare occurrence where you downed 4 survivors in 60 seconds but still got hit with DS and that survivor was able to loop you for 5 gens, save all of his teammates and escape.
You're the one that makes the choice to tunnel someone and eat their DS, when instead you could just slug them and create even more pressure. If they have UB? So be it.. that was still 40 seconds that they were out of the game.
Comments
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It's not that rare anymore, also it's more about how they play for that 60 sec. They will jump on a gen in front of you, you slug them but they will have UB. Jump in locker in front of you etc etc..
That needs to get fixed, if you have time to heal, do gens, unhook, you are not tunneled anymore, so DS should be deactivated.
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Well let me just do my job really well and have really short chases as I'm supposed to.
*proceeds to get hit by 4 DS's for doing my job as a killer well *
We don't want it nerfed, we want it reworked to a point where it covers for actual tunneling, rather than punishing a killer for doing good. But some survivors use DS as a 60 second invincibility where they can pretty much do what they want. As soon as the killer comes near, they can just hop in a locker so the killer is in a lose lose situation. Where they lose valuable pressure no matter what they do.
DS also covers for the fact that survivors can make mistakes, and still get a free escape from it. Such as running straight at the killer knowing full well you'll be downed. That is not behavior that should be reinforced by a perk.
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The perk is abuse able. You can save someone off hook with BT and still have DS even though you can't tunnel someone going for unhooks.
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Damn. I should stop stop tunneling survivors off the gens...
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DS gives you 60s of invulnerability and they can do anything they want with that time. Gens? Totems? Hook saves in front of killer? Anything. Killer is coming? Jump inside locker and buy other 3 survivors time. Go down? Use UB. Only thing it wastes is the killer's time while 3 other survivors are on gens.
DS is clearly overtuned and there are a lot of ways to force killer to take one and it definitely needs to be a proper anti-tunnel perk. If it does start becoming one, I wouldn't even mind it being base kit.
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The problem with DS is the killer doesn't have to tunnel and can still get hit by it. It punishes killers for playing well and rewards survivors for playing poorly. 60 seconds was too long for PGTW but for DS it's fine? There's no killer perk that adds a 6th generator because the killer failed to apply pressure.
Also a side note. If I hook someone and leave. A save is made and I currently have no clue where another survivor is. So I return to the hook. If the rescuer sneaked away and all I see is the hooked persons blood trail. Please tell me what do you expect me to do? Not go after that person because they were just hooked? Should I play poorly because your team made a save then sneaked away? Leaving you to be the only target? Now that I think about it. Don't tell me what you expect me to do because it will be something that solves nothing and only benefits you.
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Lmao, you lose just to follow some made up rule created by survivors.
Aside from that, survivors get off the hook and go do a gen in front of the killer cause they have immunity, and if the killer slugs he got up with unbreakable, and if the killer eat the DS that's a long ass stun that will remove all the pressure he got
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It’s funny because if DS actually became something that properly counters tunnelling then it would be a lot stronger than it is now and the killers would cry even more
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DS abuse is just a made up thing by killers.
DS: "After being unhooked or unhooking yourself, Decisive Strike will become active and usable for 40/50/60seconds.While Decisive Strike is active, when grabbed by the Killer, succeed a Skill Check to automatically escape the Killer's grasp and stun them for 5 seconds."
Thats what the perk does. It works good against tunneling, thats it, no such thing as abusing it by going in a locker, its using the perk.
Are survivors crouch abusing if they use it to hide mid chase instead of hiding to avoid a chase? its just so dumb...
Same with all these dumb complaints about "second chance perks". Yes, survivors have these, and need these. Can a survivor kill the killer and throw him out of the game before the exit gates are open? no. Killers have unlimited second chances, miss a hit, just do it 3 seconds later again....
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I feel like if ther were to nerf the time on it DS would still be a perfect counter to tunnel. I wouldnt mind a timer nerf tbh.
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If DS was a true anti tunneling perk then it would deactivate when touching a gen.
It isnt tunneling when the killer protects the generators , anyone that thinks otherwise are very entitled.
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If it was anti tunnel then the timer should only go down if you’re not in chase and it would activate after every unhook not just once
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I wouldnt mind that but would it activate only when killer gets into a chase with you after hook? The killer could just loose chase for a second and the DS would be gone if they do that. I think the timer should be the only thing nerfed.
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Nah like say the timer was reduced to 30 secs, that would only start counting down when out of chase, but would completely disappear if you touch gen or unhook.
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A lot of people don't even have a problem with the anti-tunneling aspect of DS. I'd say that a lot of the complaints of DS are about the invulnerability survivors get, allowing them to do anything they want for 60 minutes the moment they get unhooked, which leads to cocky gameplay the killer would normally be able to punish, but not anymore because of that so called "anti tunnel" perk.
There's also people complaining about the fact you could literally be doing well as a killer without tunneling but still get DS'd just because the 60 minute timer wasn't up.
Sure, if people are whining about not being able to tunnel, I'm there with you. Tunneling should be discouraged or punished or whatever, but DS in its current form doesn't just punish tunnelers.
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I love DS because of the anti-tunneling aspect. However, it was designed in a way that makes you completely invincible for 1 whole minute. It needs to actually be reworked in a way that just makes it an anti-tunneling perk. Survivors abuse current DS by literally doing whatever they want even if the killer wasn’t tunneling them. You combine this with Unbreakable, the killer is in a complete lose-lose situation. It’s honestly ridiculous how this is the case.
Imo, Unbreakable is fine, but DS really needs a rework. It should cut the timer down to 30 seconds. If the survivor works on a gen, does a totem, heals someone, or someone else gets hooked in that duration, DS is deactivated. If the killer is chasing the survivor, the timer stops. This way, it makes it solely based around anti-tunneling and doesn’t give survivors the feeling of “I’m invincible for a whole minute.”
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If the game was balanced killers wouldn’t have to tunnel. You just said that you would “rather lose than tunnel”. Which means tunneling was possibly the only way to comeback and possibly win. Case closed
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And you don't see killers hitting people with PGTW? And it's 45 secs. If you hit someone it should deactivate too
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Balance to 4k you want to say.
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DS needs a rework. A simple fix would be for it to deactivate once someone else is unhooked.
People forget that if there is a 4-stack they can farm each other off hook and not worry about being downed and hooked because there can be multiple DS's active at once.
Once someone else is hooked, deactivate DS. Stops so-called "tunneling" cries and abuse.
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And killers forget is a 3 secs. stun 1 time doing a skill check, not a 1 minute of immunity. I love if devs make B&C only activate once, or tinkerer
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The truth is, as much as it can be a problem with organized SWF teams, killers just overexxagerate it to get what they want. I have taken multiple DSes on purpose, with the following 5 sec stun and I have still won matches by a long shot. I have slugged and those survivors used Unbreakable or were revived by other teammates, and I still won by a long shot. It's not gonna happen each and everytime of course, but I don't expect to get 4 kills every match, nor will I cry because I didn't manage to. If I don't feel like it, I'm not even gonna slug to get the 4th kill before the survivor gets the hatch. And most of the time I don't. Truth is, if you don't camp or run after the same guy as soon as he gets unhooked, DS is hardly ever going to be a problem for you. But the average killer players can't really think of that. They're pretty much like "Me want kills, me tunnel you".
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The difference between those two perks is that PGTW rewards you for making good play, DS rewards you for making bad play.
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Hit a gen is not good play when you also see it
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I genuinely don't mind DS as a Killer player.
Sure, it can get a little annoying (Personally I don't have to worry about it as much because I play mostly PH), but I don't think it's terrible, even when playing other killers. Ngl I don't mind them slugging and eating the UB to ensure they don't have it later, or just eating the DS early. It can definitely ruin the game because you can lose a lot of pressure from it if the Survivor is good, but at least in my experience, most Survivors won't keep the chase going for that long unless the Killer makes some huge mistakes, since more Survivors aren't great in chase.
Obviously, the exception to this is something like a super coordinated SWF with all DS+UB who like to spend more time sitting in queues then playing the game, but I think most of us can agree that a team that can pull it off optimally is pretty rare...
Besides, I know as a Survivor how little people run DS. Can't tell you how many times I don't have an obsession at Red Ranks because no one brought an obsession perk. I should also note here that, at least in my experience of running DS+UB, it can be something you just don't get value out of if your team is lacking.
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Not a fan of DS, but I also don't think its as bad as some killer mains make it out to be. I wouldn't be opposed to a rework, but I also never use it in red ranks b/c I'd like to rely on other means to win. Killers are mad Undying got nerfed while DS wasn't touched. So now its temper tantrum to the finest, hit the forums and make thread after thread, hoping your point reaches the devs.
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Allow me to point out the hypocrisy...
Killers want and use anti-momentum perks every game and depend on it.
They claim DS is abuseable if it is used as anti-momentum.
DS < Ruin, Tinkerer, Undying
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What are you trying to say? I can't understand what you mean by that.
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Ds needs to be anti tunnel. Not "ooo look at me, you can't pick me up" perk.
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'As a killer main, I've never once had an issue with DS. Why? Because i'd rather lose knowing I refused to tunnel someone.'
Seems a little elitist. 'My rule book doesn't let me experience something you all obviously do.'
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Ruin+Undying+Tinkerer gets nerfed because too many killers are using it. It took them a few months to adjust that. Ruin also only worked if you were pushing people off the gens.
DS+UB+ADREN+BT with keys have been used for years. Yet these are totally acceptable and reward you no matter how poor you play.
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I really don't want to believe this but I feel it may be true, sadly.
I had to force myself to run it and learn how to hit the skill check last year because I absolutely hated this perk and didn't want to waste the perk slot. The way Killers are playing lately makes it hard for me to see what the real issue is with running DS. I get the abuseable aspect of it, but I don't run it to be abusive, I run it to not get mowed down and kicked out of the game before I can at least get 10K points.
If that makes me a biased Survivor main, then I guess that's what I am although I play both sides.
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Yes any survivor should just be scared of the killer to the point they always run clear across the map to Self Care so as to waste as much time as possible.
The entire point of doing stuff like this with DS is to pressure the killer, or to prevent the killer from gaining more pressure. Having the guy with DS do a gen or a save is forcing the killer to pay attention to them and thereby giving other survivors time to do things. You have 60 seconds to give to your teammates. Any smart killer would either eat your DS early or slug you and force UB. Or just not tunnel you and pressure the other 3 survivors in the trial.
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Actually no, it's abusable, it leaves absolutely no counter play to it, killer shouldn't be punished for doing his job, it's okay to get hit with DS if I tunneled, but if I am not tunneling and still eat it it's just stupid and unbalanced.
So I guess killer main like Fungoose are stupid because they don't eat DS and lose all their pressure? Especially in the end game?
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The counter play is don't fall for the obvious bait, or eat the DS early, or slug. I play several killers at rank 1 and it's honestly not that difficult to play around. ######### it, set a clock on your desk if you really can't count to 60.
Pay the ######### attention to when you last hooked someone. If you're "not tunneling" as you claim then you generally won't have to slug them for long to avoid a DS. Oh boo hoo I wasn't tunneling but I lack the ability to count to 60. No sorry that's not a valid excuse.
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The thing is, they force you to pick them up and slug them, while people on other side are doing gens, you go for them but they guy will get up with UB, if i pick him up I'll eat DS, it's a lose-lose situation. Just like that you lost all the pressure you were working for because if one perk, that isn't what you call balance.
Pair that with 4x of DS and you lose 1 minute if the game for each one. 'eat it early' I'll need to tunnel or camp with for it, which is again, very punishable against good survivors.
Stop trying to protect the abusable parts of the perk, if you tunnel it's okay to eat it, that's okay. But being forced to and lose all pressure is dumb.
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My view is: if they nerfed the COMBO of ruin-undying, why not nerf the combo of DS-Umbreakable?
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I've been in so many red rank games and DS/UB aren't even being played.
Versus
Almost every killer using Undying + Ruin.
Great nerf devs, keep it up.
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Why are you chasing that guy though? Go for someone you can hook.
Not tunneling though, right?
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I go for the other guy, hit him twice, hook him, go on the gen and down other guy, but get hit with DS, i was tunneling right?
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Then why you picking him up right away?
Like really if you get DS'ed here it's your own fault. You know full well you hooked this guy recently but pick him up like a bot. Just slug him, if this is the situation then his DS will be up before he can use UB.
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There's a lot of arguments on both sides but one argument that is circular is to say there's no abusing a perk because it activated in accordance with how it was implemented.
Furthermore if it only works against tunneling as you stated then by your definition any time a killer downs the same survivor within 60 seconds it must have been due to tunneling? A lot can happen in 60 seconds including chasing, downing, and hooking other survivors. Simple things like the active window closes twice as fast if not in a chase or downed would go a long way to make it an anti-tunnel perk If that's what we claim it is.
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If it was a true decisive strike, you'd never know when being hit with it. Be happy you can work around it as much as you can.
You are not entitled to keep your pressure, just as survivors can lose momentum in a lot of circumstances.
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Because in this game killer doesn't have time to wait around, i don't see how don't see the problem here. I've gone to completely other guy, hooked him, got back, found this guy who was on gen, downed him and still got hit by it. That is fair right?
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That thing 'true DS' is bs and you know it.
Like i said, i don't have a problem to get hit by it if i was tunneling, but getting hit when clearly I am not tunneling is wrong and needs to be fixed.
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"Killer doesn't have time to wait around" which the survivors take advantage of and there is nothing wrong with that.
If you ignore people you recently saved and focus on the other survivors, or slug them, or eat the DS early then you are taking that advantage away. So what if they have UB, if they have to use it then let them, that's 24 seconds of them not doing anything.
You're basically asking for the ability to just play like a bot and not need to use any kind of strategy to get kills.
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I like when people say "as a killer main" then say things that don't make sense to killers. "If they have UB so be it" this makes me question whether you're a "killer main". This is basically admitting that theres no counter play to UB or DS just slugging. Which is not really counter play just a band aid fix. Not only are you losing all the momentum you had earlier but now you have to start a new chase or wait to find someone running to the survivor who's on the ground while 2 more survivors are working on gens. Its a lose lose situation. Survivors won't heal with ds and will just sit on the gen because they know theyre invincible. And no DS wasn't meant to be "anti tunneling" the devs have said that thats what the community labeled it as.
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Laurie PFP.
And the perk is abuseable. There are perks that are stupid for killer to go against, and look at it. Your Ruin+Undying is getting nerfed! Be happy. DS is just *Let me sit on this gen, and you down me. Let me unbreakable real quick and keep doing the gen*. That's just stupid design.
Tinkerer is OP? You're the first person I've ever heard say that. I have nothing to say on that.
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Your bias is showing.
Tinkerer: Punishes survivor for doing the objective and "rewards" killer for doing nothing. No counterplay with no way to avoid it. Can be used unlimited number of times.
Also Tinkerer: When combined with other slowdown perks, it is extremely oppressive and wins the game for the killer for simply playing the game normally.
DS: Protects survivor from being immediately rehooked. Killers have complete control over when it is used. Can only be used one time.
It is a no brainer that DS is a weak perk and Tinkerer is unfair and overpowered.
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Fellow killers please stop tunnling survivors of gens stop being toxic ree
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