This Undying nerf will kill pyramid head
Ruin Undying is the best gen defense for pyramid. Pop corrupt doesn't work well for him because sometimes you really need to cage someone but need pop at the same time. All the other gen defense perks aren't that good on him either. I just can't find anything better then Ruin Undying
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You are over jumping it. Pyramid Head is A Tier already, perks not counted. Nah, hes fine.
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Honestly, i don't think the undying nerf is as extreme as people are saying!
We'll find out in about 5 hours I guess, but either way, there will always be other builds!
In reality, PH doesn't NEED gen defence perks, its just nice, as it is on most killers!
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PH is good enough he can live without 2 gen perks.
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I mean i can say the same thing for deathslinger and current clown but i won't because all this does is make it so i either keep using them both together, only use ruin, or i just go back to using pop.
If a killer became unplayable or incredibly worse because of this nerfed combo then the problem would be the killers design not that this combo isn't as strong anymore.
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I don't think so. He is still one of the best chase killers in the game and can't be bothered by some strong survivor defenses. He plays his own game and is one of my favorite killers to play and go against.
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He can live without 2 gen defense perks but not his best ones lol
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PH will be fine dude. The sky is not falling.
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Undying is now a 1 use perk only giving your ruin a mini shield. Why is that worth a perk slot?
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Corrupt and surge does work wonders on him believe it or not best if combo'ed with stbfl
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Wow thanks for the useful input, I've now changed my mind about this topic.
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Something is going very wrong in chases if you're relying on Ruin/Undying on PH. Still, it's not being nerfed to oblivion. I will concede the point that PH lacks synergy with Pop or Surge. I tend to use Infectious on PH to cage on the fly and build pressure that way.
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Its better than an instant break, plus the aura reading on dull totems is still helpful (unless they completely removed it, i dont remember)
With its new ability to transfer hex tokens as well it now opens a whole range of possibilities!
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I really isn't. Having Ruin alone is already pretty good for most killers. The point of Ruin Undying isn't to stop survivors from doing gens -- which admittedly it does do on occassion. It's to slow the game down enough for the killer to get over the opening part of the game so he can have a good chance of snowballing. Ruin is actually enough for that.
The problem with Undying is that it is too oppressive -- it turns a lot of games where survivors might have had a fighting chance into a complete one-sided slaughter. They can't get any momentum going at all and it makes it easy for the killer to get 2-3 hooks in before a gen is even done. If the killer is not very good at map pressure and is relying on Undying/Ruin as a crutch then it is not so bad and survivors can power through it. But if the killer is actually good, knows how to defend gens and uses Ruin/Undying on top of it it's far too sweaty.
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I'm a p3 ph and I dominate in chases. I like when my perks work 100% of the time, not because I hit somebody with my m2 now surge doesn't activate.
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As a PH main myself, I'm doing fine with combining PGTW and Hex: Ruin, or PGTW and Corrupt, or even just running only PGTW and snowballing with Infectious (with BBQ and I'm All Ears as the other 2 perks in the build). RuinDying was nice, and will still likely be good on him because of the mini shield (I'd say imagine DH Pyramid head but it doesn't proc on his ability so maybe not but using Third Seal would be bonkers if it doesn't block the auras of cages).
PH isn't dead. People said that before his 1st change, and he was even better than before. This won't kill him.
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the aura reading is nearly useless since it will only apply to 3 totems none of which are things you need to defend.
The only use i can think of would be someone cleansing a dull totem at the start of the game and that is not useful enough to be considered good.
Like they should at this point just switch that effect with TOTH totem counter slowdown but make it also work on hex totems but with a shorter activation period since it would make both perks better. the aura reading simply doesn't have anything to do with how undying works anymore and would be best used on another perk.
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Surveillance/oppression is here now
Tinker/bitter Murmur is another combo
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Been playing PH with no gen perks and pure chase perks, talking enduring, STBFL, brutal, spirit fury, im all ears, etc, I have found if you are good with POTD and end chases as quick as you can get them hooked/caged and get right back on someone else, you can make a snowball situation where you just wipe the whole team fast, however you are on a much smaller time limit due to gens flying so it makes games feel a lot more tense, basically if i slapped on maybe sloppy or corrupt id be fine so TLDR Pyramid is fine without undying ruin, i never really cared running it on him
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Running all chase perks against survivors who are good in chase and know how to do gens is gg. I go for 12 hooks not slug and try to 1 hook everyone
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I play him frequently without Ruin or Undying and I frequently 4k, he'll be just fine. I use Tinkerer/BBQ/Sloppy/Corrupt for those curious and so many of the perks are great on him.
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You're playing against average survivors lol. Meanwhile I'm over here fighting seal team six. 4ks don't mean anything, you could be slugging everyone and 1 hook them. I go for 12 hooks which is way harder to do against good survivors.
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Not to mention chase perks like Spirit Fury/Enduring make no sense on Pyramid Head. His power is anti-loop so why waste perk slots on something that's not the killer's weakness to begin with? What Pyramid Head needs (against GOOD survivors that is) is TIME.
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Pyramid Head is A tier, and while the RuinDying combo helped basically every killer, it's not going to kill him. Pop is still completely valid on him. Corrupt is still completely valid on him. Ruin alone is still completely valid.
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Exactly this well said.
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Pop is weaker on him because he has cages and pop got nerfed on top of this. Corrupt is good regardless but once those 2 minutes are up, you're screwed.
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I mean tbf I don't run ruin/undying anyway so I wouldn't know, I'm mainly talking off of gameplay I've seen
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You aren't going to cage every survivor you chase. A core part of PH is knowing when to cage or when to hook.
All I'm saying is Pyramid Head existed before Undying, and he did completely fine then. This won't "kill" him.
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I can agree to this. Brutal is absolutely a complete waste of time, Enduring can be useful but because you rarely break pallets Spirit Fury is also useless on him. I'm All Ears is the only chase perk you really want on him and I'd class it more as tracking.
Pyramid Head has, quite possibly, the strongest pure-chase power in the game (I'm not including Spencer's Last Breath or Yamaoka's Haunting because they can use those for mobility too). And he has this on a 115% (4.6m/s) killer. If you're good as PH, you want slowdown perks and tracking perks because your chases do not last long. To quote stats from @Yamaoka when he measured 4 of my games, the average chase duration was 24.375 (and those weren't good matches, mind you, because I woke up literally 20 minutes before recording them and I wasn't playing amazingly). Here's the thread where he describes them, by the way.
So, yeah, I'd suggest against running those perks on him. If it works for you, then great! Absolutely go for it and I'm glad it's working for you (ik my friend runs Bamboozle/STBFL/BBQ/Brutal and as much as it hurts me inside he does quite well), but you could be doing better with some gen slowdown. Honestly even just Corrupt stuck in there would help out a lot, particularly in place of Brutal or Spirit Fury.
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PHead was never dead and isn't actually the best killer for that combo due to basic mobility. And Undying came out 3 months after PHead release, so what did you do in that time? Kinda exaggerating that it would "kill" him
Maybe try Opression + Surveillance?
Ehmmmmm no. Ruin doesn't help you with the opening game, unless you patrol every generator and drop chases, you will most likely still have a popped gen after your first chase, depending on the chase. That was pretty clearly outlined and agreed, that Ruin is mainly a midgame perk, which was kinda bad because a single totem is normally cleansed until midgame when you know about it.
Same with Ruin+Undying btw. The problem raises when people need to leave gens to rescue their mates, which makes gen patrolling kinda obsolete for the killer, combined with people searching for 2+ totems. So yeah, the combo can be opressive, so it is good that it got changed, but also Ruin+Undying is a midgame build
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i wasn’t listing my build, i was just listing perks that i run, not all that of those at once, my last build was Enduring, im all ears, stbfl anr bbq
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Makes him even more difficult to get away from, you can boost your weaknesses or enhance your strength, I didn’t play many games with spirt fury enduring PH but the ones i played, it allowed me to snowball very quickly
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Oppression exists now. Maybe try that? Its actually surprisingly good on people with limited mobility. You could even go all in on that and run Surveillance + Oppression + Overcharge + Brutal Strength. Boot all the gens!
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you know that slugging can be a strategy? not talkking about having 4 slugs on the ground, just spread the pressure. Maybe your strategy is bad if you just play find-chase-hook and rince repeat, while ignoring other survivors and gens. Just assuming. Like you did assuming Cryptic only fights average survivors.
I could also assume that your "seal team" just is not pressured hard enough and you always have 2-3 people on gens
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use moris
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Running all chase perks didnt require me to slug, it allowed me to snowball build my pressure, quickly getting cages and hooks I had situations where two people caged consistently and or hooked, making survivors have to stop doing gens to get them. What makes this work all falls down to good decisions making and having good killer game sense and skill. It really isn’t as bad as some make it seem, honestly i used to complain about gen speeds but recently its not that bad.
However gen speeds still are very rough for the bottom killers such as clown, and trapper
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He did fine before undying because people were still learning him. And with ruin I didn't have to worry about using the cages, now I have to decide if I wanted to cage or get pop
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Nahh I slug for pressure when I need to, I'm not one of those who slug at 5 gens because I'm confident in my killer. I even have gameplay of how good I am at killerhttps://youtu.be/JZ9XJLGf1po
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I'm talking about above average survivors where you need gen defense. Not average ones where you can go perkless blindfolded and still win. I tries the all chase perks once and no matter how fast the chases were, those gens were flying.
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That's the point of the cages. They're supposed to be strategic- You can use one and forego dealing with any survivor perks, but it deprives you of hook perks - Like BBQ and Pop. Or you can hook them to get access to your hook perks.
It has never taken people three months to learn how to play against a killer. Good players can figure out the basics of a killer very quickly, and only a bit longer the intricacies.
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must of played at least 20 games so far just chase perks, almost 2k hours red rank killer, i really don’t know what else I could say it comes down to your opinion vs mine, Just leave at you just enjoy and have more success with a different playstyle then mine :)
EDIT the survivors i went against most of the time where your run of the mill, swf full squad, DS unbreakable and dead hard etc, not always was just boosted baby survivors but that makes this discussion come down to your word vs mine
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Ugh you don't get what I'm saying. Let's just drop this and move on
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Whatever my guy. I'm just saying- There is no chance that this will "kill" Pyramid Head.
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not sure what you wanna proof with this video...
tbh you didn't perform that good at all. You missed several easy hits, ate every pallet, almost every dead hard, got your first hook after 3 minutes and your moonwalks are questionable. On top, the survivors did several potato moves as well (I would love to see their perks, because I think at least 2 of them were sloppy-selfcare-in-the-open potatos). That was definitely not a seal team. Also, regarding your 12 hook goal, I just wanted to emphasize that you got Kate first time while the first guy was already dead.
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Uhhhhhhhh no?
I play him without undying sometimes and games are still VERY manageable.
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Pyramid head doesn't need undying he was just fine before blight release.
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Me juggling and always getting something out of chases is me being bad? And hitting every hit on console is kinda hard with low frames and a controller. Getting 12 hooks with no gen defense is kind of a stretch especially on a map like that with wraith. Show me some of your gameplay, I'll wait a couple hours until you finally have gameplay where you didn't make any mistakes.
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Pyramidhead doesn't need any perks to win...
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I'm talking generally about the mistakes you make. Getting 12 hooks is in general difficult, but is not really an argument if you end chases fast. As long as people are hooked, there are 2-3 survivors not working on gens. Unless people let their mates die.
And my playstyle is totally not relevant. I just said that this was not with the best performances I have seen, I don't have to play better to have that opinion. If you had a somewhat decent team, the game would have ended in a 1-2k. And even small changes could have led to that. Let it be Kate (the unhooked one) being hooked instead of the first kill, or let the house window jumpers have Balanced Landing instead of Dead Hard, granting you free hits everytime, or let them work on gens injured rather than 40s selfcaring in the open, having no pallets near for the obvious case of you surprising them.
This shouldn't even turn into a rant about your playstyle. I just started that because you opened a thread about PH being dead and then saying that you have to play vs ultra sweats but others only play ez pz noobs games (and your Wraith game showed definitely the second type of survivors)
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I can do relatively decently with PH with just corrupt. Ruin isn't even very good on PH. He has very little mobility and can't really force people off gens reliably anyway.
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That's 1 out of 2 gameplay videos i have. These survivors were average but in every chase I had, I always gained something. If you're going to call someone bad, I would like to see gameplay from your side.
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