Visit the Kill Switch Master List for more information on this and other current known issues: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/299-kill-switch-master-list
Freddy kit change ideas
Let me start by saying I wasn't quite sure which sub forum is the correct sub forum for killer rework ideas, and I was kind of split between here and the "Fan creation" sub forum, but that didn't quite seem like the correct area, so if this belongs somewhere else just let me know.
With that said, I'm sure everyone here read the title and thought to themselves "Oh boy, another random DbD player saying Freddy needs a rework", and that's half correct, I don't personally think Freddy needs a rework, but if players are insisting one is needed, might as well contribute some ideas on how he could be better.
One easy way to rework Freddy, though I think this would be highly contested due to it being less "new player friendly", would be to add an illusion effect in the similar vein of thought as the doctor examples of which follow:
Fake Freddy:
when survivors are asleep on a rare occasion when a survivor is running a Freddy illusion will appear in their previously run path with chase music and will continue to chase for up to 2 seconds before making a slash and disappearing (the slash can't hurt the survivors, and it has to be while running both to easily figure out the pathing for the fake Freddy to make it look plausible, and because no one would fall for a Freddy just appearing while their hiding in a corner).
You thought you escaped?:
occasionally a survivor would switch to all of the visual effects of being awake (no fog, no icon indicator and no hanging head), but they will functionally be asleep, meaning Freddy can still hurt them and track them. Attentive survivors will realize they are still asleep and can wake up from the normal means (being woken up by an awake survivor if they can convince them they are still asleep, or failing a skill check) but who hasn't broken away from a Freddy for a few seconds and briefly forgotten they're asleep...well without a visual reminder, you might just not remember.
Freddy on the T.V.:
when survivors are asleep and trying to use a generator to wake up, every once in a while a fake Freddy head will pop out of the generator (similar to a jack in the box) and prompt a special skill check, if the survivor fails the skill check the generator will spark and lose progression, but the survivor won't wake up.
Your friends can't help you now!:
pretty simple, occasional generate fake survivors only visible to the sleeping survivor that will attempt to wake the sleeping survivor, but in reality its just a waste of time, since once they've "woken" you, they'll disappear and you'll still be asleep. All that time could of been better spent looking for a generator or a real survivor, but nooooooooo you fell for the old fake friend routine.
The old hat trick:
when a survivor falls asleep 5 Freddy hats are placed on the map only visible to the killer and the particular survivor. a channel can be performed on these hats, and each one will grant a blood point bonus, however; only one hat will wake them up, three of the hats do nothing, and one hat will create a fake Freddy that allows the real Freddy to teleport to it (similar to the hag's husk), as well as deactivate the other 4 hats until a survivor loses Freddy in a chase.
Just a few ideas centered around the illusion idea
Comments
-
I'm not too keen on the whole sleep thing.
Nobody likes fighting Freddy. Here are the reasons imo
1) He still "has" you even if you lose him in a chase. No other killer outside of Pig has this. With other killers once you lose them, your reward is you get to live. It feels rewarding losing them in a chase. With Freddy once you lose him and get to a safe distance, he can see your aura at all times. The closest killer is the pig who is coincidentally is also a pain imo. The reward for outsmarting a killer and breaking the chase should be that you get the peace of mind that you get to live.
2) He forces you to go against your objectives. If he puts you asleep often your best course of action is to fail a skillcheck. You want to heal? Well first you have to fail that skillcheck, which also gives him a notification. Or you have to blow a gen, which sets your progress back, which goes against your very objective, and no other killer can force you to fail generators on purpose.
The alternative is to find a teammate which makes sense and is just like healing but in the world of solo survivors and when everyone is used to having self-care, having to seek someone out knowing he's probably still on his way feels like a pain in the backside.
3) You can't hide from him. You hear his terror radius but you can't see him. You can't tell what direction the sound is coming from, what direction he's looking etc therefore stealth goes out of the window. 99% of the time when you hear him coming he's already seen you no matter how well you hide. On the flipside it's funny playing him and watching survivors urban evasion towards you thinking they're being sneaky but not realizing where you are.
I really like the stealth part of DBD and that adrenaline you get when you crawl around a rock with the killer on the other side and he only just misses seeinng you. It's so tense but so good.
For these reasons I think the whole idea of him being perfectly invisible with a non-directional audio needs to go, along with him being able to see survivor auras all the way across the map. I do enjoy playing him from time to time for these reasons but he feels so broken and out of place in DBD in his current form. He turns the mechanics of the game on their head.
What he desperately needs is something to help him in a chase. It's all well and good being able to sneak up on them and put them asleep but once that timer begins it's a trip to pallet town and he suffers badly. Even the Wraith has a big upper hand because he can go invisible, mindgame and get a second hit - Freddy once in the dreamworld has no such tricks up his sleeve.
Your idea of fake Freddys is kind of the direction I think they should take him. Something to help him mindgame in loops.
The whole sleep thing doesn't make much sense to me either. I mean he's in the entitys realm not the real world, he shouldn't need to put them asleep to be able to get them.
Alternatively they could have him like the doctor but instead of building up madness he builds up tiredness by being in his radius. This either slows survivors down a tiny bit or slows their repair/healing speed etc though again the latter option would leave him vulnerable to loops again.3 -
Those are some pretty good points, and you are correct I forgot to address the fact that while dealing with all of these sub-objectives, Freddy can still see where you are, and unless other survivors are keeping him busy you'll just end up waking up only to be put back to sleep right away.
The easiest way we could still incorporate the changes I suggested would be to either remove Freddy's aura reading entirely while in the sleep world (which isn't a realistic option) or to change it so Freddy reads auras in a "belt" around his position.
While not exact numbers, it would look something like: if you are within 24 meters of Freddy or more than 48 meters from Freddy he can't see your aura, but if you are within 24-48 meters of Freddy he can see your aura (again, not exact numbers but it would basically be a situation where if you can't hear Freddy's lullaby, Freddy can't aura read you).
Doing this you would still be able to have sub-objectives that only affect sleeping survivors, but aren't completely ignored because "its pointless when he'll just come right over and put you to sleep again".While I agree from a gameplay perspective the whole putting survivors to sleep thing isn't that fun, its really Freddy's theme in all of the movies, in that he can only harm people in their dreams, so to remove the sleep aspect would be similar to removing Michael's ability to stalk, so for better or worse sleep has to be a thing...buuuuuut that gives me a different idea.
What if survivors start the match in a "sleep" state (which could either be something like a persistent -5% to all survivor actions or just affect the general visibility as it does currently), but make adrenaline pill bottles cabinets available like the pigs trap removal stations, and by "consuming pills" (a moderately long basic channel) you "wake up" and regain full efficiency and Freddy loses all aura reading abilities on you and is unable to put you to sleep for a set amount of time until the pills "wear off".
If we then limit the number of pills available on the map to either a total limited number, or give them a super long regen time.
If they went this route they would still have to modify freddy's aura reading ability or at least slow his movement speed, but it would add tension to the match by forcing survivors to locate a pill bottle so one of them can wake up, then wake up other survivors (survivors woken by an "awake" survivor instead of pills can be put back to sleep by freddy normally, but maybe still give them a small cool down from wake up to sleep), and we would just need to remove the ability to wake up from failed skill checks.Obviously its not a perfect idea, but I think given Freddy's character we should actually be doing more with the dream world and not less, but lets really play on Freddy's dream abilities
0 -
I wanna see more of what he's able to do in the movies i know the devs cant give everything but come on... freddy could change terrain, change his looks etc... he was prettymuch a God.... they dont need to go as far as giving him the ability of changing terrain but at least give him something for the chase... also freddy fed off of fear (unless that was just a freddy v Jason thing) so maybe tie that into the game some how?0
-
This is WAY more than the devs want to do. I don't think you realize how little resources they have for this. They are wanting easy changes that require little work, not completely remaking a killer from the bottom up. All he needs is SC not to wake you up, no actions but saves/windows/pallets during dream transition and slightly faster transitions. That's it.
0 -
They did say that they wanted to completely revamp him... they wanna give him a new powerBlueberry said:This is WAY more than the devs want to do. I don't think you realize how little resources they have for this. They are wanting easy changes that require little work, not completely remaking a killer from the bottom up. All he needs is SC not to wake you up, no actions but saves/windows/pallets during dream transition and slightly faster transitions. That's it.
0 -
@Blueberry said:
This is WAY more than the devs want to do. I don't think you realize how little resources they have for this. They are wanting easy changes that require little work, not completely remaking a killer from the bottom up. All he needs is SC not to wake you up, no actions but saves/windows/pallets during dream transition and slightly faster transitions. That's it.@Blueberry is correct, they do likely have a very limited number of resources they can allocate to these changes, and even beyond that the are beholden to the licenses holders wishes, which acts to further hinder what can and cannot be done with a character in the game, and if they go too far with making a particular killer too "special" it could cause an uproar from other title holders as it comes off as a form of favoritism.
But even with that said, I think we should welcome all ideas regardless of the actual complexity to implement, since you never know what might be the inspiration for the perfect idea (basically blue sky meetings).So while @Blueberry is correct that @Bravo0413 's solution might not be the most practical, I feel it is ineffective to our overall goal to shoot down his suggestion completely, or to assert your idea as the one truth. We all have the same goal here, all ideas should be welcome and supported, since at the end of the day no one in this forum is going to make the final decision on Freddy's rework, instead we're just helping the designers brainstorm some ideas
0 -
@PoppaSquat said:
@Blueberry said:
This is WAY more than the devs want to do. I don't think you realize how little resources they have for this. They are wanting easy changes that require little work, not completely remaking a killer from the bottom up. All he needs is SC not to wake you up, no actions but saves/windows/pallets during dream transition and slightly faster transitions. That's it.@Blueberry is correct, they do likely have a very limited number of resources they can allocate to these changes, and even beyond that the are beholden to the licenses holders wishes, which acts to further hinder what can and cannot be done with a character in the game, and if they go too far with making a particular killer too "special" it could cause an uproar from other title holders as it comes off as a form of favoritism.
But even with that said, I think we should welcome all ideas regardless of the actual complexity to implement, since you never know what might be the inspiration for the perfect idea (basically blue sky meetings).So while @Blueberry is correct that @Bravo0413 's solution might not be the most practical, I feel it is ineffective to our overall goal to shoot down his suggestion completely, or to assert your idea as the one truth. We all have the same goal here, all ideas should be welcome and supported, since at the end of the day no one in this forum is going to make the final decision on Freddy's rework, instead we're just helping the designers brainstorm some ideas
Agreed. I thought my post was pretty constructive though.
1 -
@Bravo0413 said:
Blueberry said:This is WAY more than the devs want to do. I don't think you realize how little resources they have for this. They are wanting easy changes that require little work, not completely remaking a killer from the bottom up. All he needs is SC not to wake you up, no actions but saves/windows/pallets during dream transition and slightly faster transitions. That's it.
They did say that they wanted to completely revamp him... they wanna give him a new power
That is not what they said. They never said revamp and they never said give him a new power. I follow their streams/posts quite closely.
1 -
The devs want to change freddy not completly rework him. I know they could have done much better with him but he's already got his power and his addons and once those are chosen they have to buff and change from that. I'd prefer a rework but like others have already said, this would basically just be making a completely new killer. I love Freddy, but right now they should just give him some QoL buffs. Such as reducing the dream transition time to like 5 or 4 seconds by default. SC skillchecks cant wake you up. Make it take longer to be woken up by a teammate. Stuff like that ya know. Now I'd love a more film accurate freddy but the devs already have his power and I really think they dont intend on changing it much.1
