Needing better Counter measures against slugging
Its absolutely ridiculous that there is close to no counter measures against all players being slugged all at once. Sure there's like, two perks out there that are rare and few in-between in the bloodwebs, but I fully think that if all players get slugged before even two generators are done that the first slugged survivor should be able to get back up in a deep wound status (or some variety of pick up) to give everyone a shot. Because not everyone has or runs deliverance, and even that is only good for first hook IF you're lucky enough to unhook someone first. Even running with higher ranked players this is a problem that I still constantly run into.
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Unbreakable should be basekit and the Perk should give you unlimited tokens to revive yourself.
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I mean...unbreakable exists and it's literally one of the strongest perks in the entire game and can completely reverse entire matches against a slugging killer. Paired with DS it's possibly the strongest 2 perks in the entire game.
Why should there be a counter to a killer just...winning a game?
You're talking like it's a balance problem when you just don't like laying on the ground doing nothing, which is understandable- but if the solution is more counter measures to the killer that is exahasterbating a new problem, not solving yours.
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We have three countermeasures for slugging. They are: Unbreakable, Soul Guard and No Mither.
The first is good but works only once. The second is good but only if you didn't bust the Ruin. The last is amazing except it turns you into a Tunnel magnet and loses the game for you.
On the whole, we need more Anti Tunnel, Anti Slug and Anti Camp options.
That would at least actually be Unbreakable. Current Unbreakable is "Unbreakable and then once used you're Breakable again."
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None of the survivor perks are "strongest perks in the game."
Killer has at least 7 perks which are much stronger. Survivor perks are in general significantly weaker than killer perks.
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I meant survivor perks when I said that.
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Tell me then, should killer be able to keep 5 gens up if he does nothing (no chases, no hits, just stands still) for first 5 minutes of the game ? Ofc not, he's not playing at all meaning he's failing utterly failing to put any pressure on the other side failling in his objective to kill survivors.
Now imagine that survivors somehow manage to all go down early when all pallets are up, when they are 4 people on 4 different places of the map, when they should be pressuring 4 different gens. Why should survivors that fail to evade / outplay the killer be given free get out of jail free card when killer did his job founding & downing all of them ? They shouldn't, at least not without investing in countering such strategy with perks, the same way killer shouldn't have strong stall that prevents survivors from winning just by default.
The problem is not in the game itself but in the players. Evading a hard sluggging killer either trough doing gens or just beiing good at picking up teammates is part of skillful gameplay. Pity that so many red ranks survivors are incredible potatoes, giving them more get out of jail free cards that they will rely on will make them even worse players while giving the good ones unneeded buffs.
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Unbreakable, Soul-Guard and No Mither.
2 out of 3 give infinite recoveries with certain conditions. 2 out of 3 come on default characters (on Steam), one is a licensed DLC.
Plus there are 3 other survivors that can help, and perks to help them do it faster.
Deep wounds is a pretty useless status effect to get in exchange for a free recovery.
Infinite unbreakable is no mither. The infinite recoveries come at a cost of being perma-injured.
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Welcome to one of the problems with DbD's design.
Slugging is one of the core mechanics for killers. It's not something only some killers are capable, it's something all killers are capable of, which means the game is balanced around killers being able to utilize this mechanic. Survivors being able to pick themselves up off the ground is such a strong ability that they either have to use up a perk slot just to do it once, or they have to be in the broken state all game to do it multiple times (not to mention Soul Guard which is dependent on the killer running a hex).
Doing anything to change slugging would require changing a larger part of the game to balance it out.
If you're wondering why I said this is a problem with DbD's design, here it is: a killer winning the match isn't fun for survivors. A killer can slug, which leaves survivors on the ground unable to participate in the match. A killer can hook, which again has the survivor unable to participate in a match (and spamming a button in second state is just absolutely suck). And a killer can kill, which removes the survivor from participating in the match and throws them back into the queue, which for many people is a 10-30 minute wait.
Yeah, being slugged sucks, but it's an important tool for killers to create pressure when gens are popping.
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I'm Just saying that if you're slugged and the killer leaves you to bleed out, you should be able to be able to use one of your summoning (hook) phase to get back up.
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What happens when not everyone has the DLC or the Perks or access to the perks.
You've seemed to also over look the fact that its not a problem with slugging. Its a problem with Slugging all and leaving to bleed out. Which in some cases is viable (when you're gen-rushed or gens have been done) but when you're 90 seconds in and you're a being slugged before even a generator is done. That is the problem
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I could see that as being a possibility, though it could be too strong when there are only two survivors left. But getting up and being in Deep Wound status (as mentioned in your original post) would definitely not be a big enough penalty.
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It would be if the deep wound status is sped up by 50% or so, so you are FORCED to heal yourself upon stand up otherwise you'd just go back into a dying state
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I don't think slugging at 1 or 2 gens are necessarily a bad thing lol. This DOES create the pressure needed, LOL hell I'd even go as far as to say it gives you the adrenaline rush that I'm so fond of with this game... But when the killer stars this at, say, 4 or 5 gens and they get you back to back, then you're sorta SOL. Though, I must admit most of the 4 survivors slugging I see happens at the lower ranks or right before the resets.
Edit: spell check
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And pebble should stun the killer for 45 seconds
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I respectfully disagree. Like I said, look at the penalty of No Mither, being broken all match just to be able to get yourself back up multiple times. Plus, the Deep Wound timer doesn't go down as long as a survivor is running (not sure how long you've been playing, but Deep Wound has gone through multiple iterations as they try to remove the ability for killers to abuse it, and this is what they landed on; it is extremely unlikely to be changed). It wouldn't really be that different from extending the recovery bar while on the ground, except that survivors can't run while recovering.
Using up a hook state to get up might be interesting, though I'm not sure how that would effect the anti-slugging perks survivors use. Also, that might encourage slugging because a killer could just put a survivor on the ground and the survivor would use up a hook state to get up. Right now, the danger of leaving a survivor slugged is them getting picked up and so the killer won a chase without getting anyone closer to being on death hook.
As stated in my first post, changing the base slugging mechanic would require rebalancing the entire game. There are times when slugging seems too strong, but there are also times for killers when it's their only option, and any changes to make it less strong in some circumstances could end up with it not being strong enough in other circumstances.
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I have a solution that doesn't require any perks or add-ons or changes to existing ones: Um...if you see a survivor go down and not get picked up, then go over there and pick them up! It's not like the Killer can slug all of you in one shot so there are plenty of opportunities. Get over there and pick them up.
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It is entirely your teams fault when you all get slugged. There is no need for a new counter to slugging, there are plenty already available. The easiest counter is to spread out and not work on the same gen.
Stop being upset at killers who play well, be upset at yourself that you screwed up. Be upset at yourself that you were unable to loop the killer long enough to allow your teammates to reset. Stop asking for the devs to dumb the game down even more so than they already have.
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You've got several perks to deal with slugging, gamer, use 'em.
If your whole-ass team ends up on the ground, then that's your B.
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I get that being slugged is annoying, but you have the strongest perk in the game to counter it. Besides, at high ranks slugging is pretty much necessary and making it easier to get out of would hurt A LOT of killers.
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As was pointed out, 2 of the 3 come on default characters that everyone has access to.
If you are 90 seconds in and all 4 survivors are downed, that is not a problem with slugging, that just means all 4 survivors played poorly. Also, it is highly unlikely that a killer would slug all 4 survivors on their first down and leave them to bleed out. It's not fun for the killer, and they will lose out on a lot of points.
The biggest problem with slugging is that far too many survivors don't even try to recover, so it takes far longer for other survivors to revive them, increasing the possibility that the helping survivor(s) will also get downed.
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The issue arrises when all 4 players who don't have unbreakable are laying on the ground. Theres nothing wrong with a Killer simply winning. Its when the killer leaves everyone to bleed out
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There is...
...don’t get caught.
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That is a non issue since it hardly ever happens. I play every day, more than 4 hours a day and I don't even remember when a killer has done so. Now, if you crawl away and the killer can't find you, then that's your fault.
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Heh..nooo..there's so many good anti slugging tools in game and slugging itself is a necessity thanks to how this game is balanced currently
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even if they don't chase u noed is a free card for them one hit and the survivors out yk. Pair it up with bloodwarden and you have free kills even if you did chase badly. especially if your able to slug all of the survivor before you escape free 4k.
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As a survivor main, I honestly have to disagree with this. The game is in an overall fairly balanced state. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.
I get slugging sucks, especially against the Twins, which I do think is actually problematic.
Other than that, both sides have strong and garbage perks, which is okay.
There are a few anti-slug options out there, as well as Styptic Agent and Anti-hemorrhagic syringes, which both can help in stopping slugs/hook issues. Or you can also run BT and DH. Once you unhook, DH and they take the BT hit and the killer just lost all of their momentum.
The biggest issue is honestly a lot of the community just isn't very good at this game. But gonna say I'm the best player out there, since I would say I'm fairly average as well. We just have to make more optimal plays the help save the game.
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Yeah maybe for a locker surfer 🤔
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well I’d say what if a killers expecting ds to be used that’s a valid reason to slug somone to avoid it
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How entitled. Even if you don't bring UB, you can come back from a 3 slug if you're smart (especially with comms). Just have the slugs spread out and hide near one till the killer patrols away. It takes like 2 seconds to finish healing a downed survivor that has 95% self healed, so just use your brain
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If that’s what it takes...
I see stealth stigmatised so much, but if it saves a survivor from a chase that would put them in this position, well then... whatever it takes.
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I remember having a nurse with infectious and just slugging everyone despite all of us being on different parts of the map. You know the killer can slug and go after others and slug even if the survivors aren't grouped up right?
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The slugging mechanic should be reworked. Right now, the only defence against it are perks, one of which is kind of ever so slightly extremely unfair. There really should be a mechanic that just allows a survivor to pick themselves up after a certain amount of time has passed and/or a certain amount of people are slugged.
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It just means that the Nurse was way better than your team and shouldn't have ever been matched against you. It's not a slugging problem, its a matchmaking problem.
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You know what, complaints like these only make me go to the old Dark Souls days.
GIT
GUD
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Sacrificing your first phase hook for a deep wound revive solves that.
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This is such a huge problem when trying to discuss game balance. It's impossible to balance a game when matchmaking is so borked, and everyone feels like everything they face is unfair because they're being put in matches with other players who are nowhere near the same skill level.
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Which can be combined with tenacity unbreakable and soul guard for infinite fast pickups
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This sounds like you speak from experience and I'm curious what killers slug like this. I've seen a killer 4k slug survivors that all went down in an area they knew were no hooks.
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The counterplay to getting slugged is not all going down at the same time.
You got slugged because you went down. You lost the chase. If all of you somehow got downed without reviving each other, your team is in a total failure state. Even then, you still have the 4% chance to kobe off the hook.
That is why Unbreakable is so strong. It is a second chance for survivors that can make up for even the worst of mistakes.
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I think it would be cool if there was a perk that let you help recover another downed teammate if you're both downed.
So for example the killer is going for a 4k slugfest, you crawl to your teammate and could heal them to pick them up.
I'd argue it should be base kit but killers would probably flip out and I guess it isn't exactly logical that a dying survivor could heal another dying survivor but I think this is potential for a really great fair and balanced anti slug perk.
I mean think about it, it punishes 4k slugging but the killer can also see it coming if the survivors crawl towards each other so there's still counter play on the killers half.
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I did an experiment where I ran Blight perkless. Started the test at rank 8. I got all the way to rank 4 before the survivors were too good to consistently beat. And how did I get all the way to rank 4 with no perks no add-ons as killer. You guessed it, I did everything I could to injure all survivors and then I would try to snowball win into a 4k slug. It's such an effective tactic that I was able to do this all the way to rank 4 with 0 slow-down.
If that doesn't tell you how powerful slugging is for killer, I don't know what does. I will also say it's high risk, high reward. It's not easy to actually pull off a 4 man slug.
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I would say that matchmaking is 80 percent of this games problem. Both survivors and killers wouldn't be anywhere near as frustrated if the devs would fix matchmaking and rankings while changing some of the core gameplay (like teleporting hooked survivors if there are more than 2 gens still up).
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ah yes, even more counters to Oni and Nurse.
no, git gud or bring unbreakable.
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lol trolling
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I'm reading this post as "There are no counters to everyone being slugged because no one really feels like running anything other than meta perks. Therefore, there are no counters, even though there are 50 billion perks that exist to counter this."
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It's actually pretty hard to pull off a 4 man slug if the survivors spread out well intitially, and use their recovery and also try to spread out when slugged, meaning the Killer has to cover a large area and defend multiple slugs which can be revived instantly.
If the gen speed wasn't so fast then slugging would not be necessary.
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we need 2 changes to make slugging fair. The possibility to ######### if you’re in dying state for more than 1 min and removing the survivors aura reading in diying state from B&C
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The countermeasure to getting slugged all at once is to avoid getting in the situation where you are slugged all at once.
There is zero reason for this to happen outside of survivors messing up.
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How'bout NOOOO!
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Wouldn't removing the auras of survivors in the dying state from BBQ&CHILI lead to more slugging?
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