Scott puts things into perspective
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The Devs need to look at this. I 100% agree with Scott, the developers of DBD need to step up their game because if they don't they'll lose it.
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Just wanna say I love discussions like this. I know the forums generally dislike content creator posts, but Scott's topics are always relevant and he shapes his arguments better than half the posts I read on here.
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I expect this post to be either closed or moved to feedback. (Knowing nobody goes to that forum.)
The synopsis is just what I said many years ago. Competition. There has been no carbon copy true competitor outside a mobile game. (Identity V)
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Also this decline you mention is only due to the Mori's being changed ,without notice and keys not being changed in the process,which is why all killer's are angry right now.you are just boasting on the words of other's, you generally don't have complaint only you're on what you think is wrong,also producing sometype of hysteria.I know you going to sit their and list a bunch of complaints that other have probably stated,but the game it self is in the best condition it has been in year's a few bugs go fallout or skyrim then tell me something.
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To be fair though PoE was created based off an already established type of game, and has had a lot longer development time. DbD is a fairly original concept and the developers are probably still learning as the game grows. It is so unique that comparing it to different games/teams isn't going to give you an accurate evaluation.
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Not nearly all killers are mad, just bad ones that relied on ebony moris or the bs combo of undying and ruin. Yeah keys are bs too, but not nearly as bad as ebony moris, for all you know they will surprise patch them this mid chapter, I wouldn't be surprised. But I rarely see a survivor bring a key, usually when someone gets one out of a chest is the problem, which is total bs shouldn't happen.
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Devs suck at fixing their game. I'm sorry but it true that they seriously need to get it together.
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That's what I think,also The Dev's are the same age as us their probably just getting out of school.
IDK I'm not a developer, but, I do realize what we do have and, I don't want to feel like I'm wasting my time or money either.All I can do though is put my complaints in when something bothers me,alot of people don't know me ,but I try to be honest and if I didn't enjoy DBD,I wouldn't play it and I have faith that the dev's will pull through eventually, but not like godly faith not like their gods are something , I just trust them on this.Most of the complaints are legit and some are exaggerated you must this ,you play DBD.
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For me personally the game went downhill when they introduced the store and the rift. By then it became clear to me they care more about MONEY than anything else. Just look at the fact a piece of cosmetic costs more than the chapter itself. And then you only have a piece of cosmetic for ONE character. "But you can buy some skins with shards".... Yeah, after more than 100 hours of playtime you can buy one. That's ridiculous.
You can see that because when the store and rift came into the game, the events were going downhill to the deepest point being Halloween 2020, where it just became a cash grab "event". Only because the communty gave them so much backlash (and well deserved, imo), they repaired it to somewhat decent, i guess?
They even re-use DbD mobile skins for the paid track in the rift, talk about lazy.
The rift is also going downhill according for getting bang for your buck. The first rifts were okay, the last rift are just straight up garbage regarding skins. Not to mention the trash fillers. Who needs 5 recolors of the same dumb charm, 4 of them ARE BEING PAID FOR. Not to mention they nerfed the progress of it TWICE in a row.
I used to buy every chapter and I bought 2 skins and 2 rifts (for PS4 and for PC). But I'm not gonna do it anymore. These devs clearly don't give a sh*t anymore or are just incompetent to make changes to the game. The cash grab event called Halloween 2020 was my final straw, and seeing the trash they released with the twins chapter, when they KNOWINGLY released a broken mess, just proved the point to me personally.
Maybe with new management and new blood this game can become better to make me spend some money on new chapters. But in the meantime, they won't get a single dime out of me anymore.
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But you can make changes without touching the core. You can buff/nerf perks, see how they work in a LONGER time (not just a PTB of a week when everyone is done playing after one or two days already) and change them again when they are OP or overnerfed. It wouldn't harm the game that much.
If I may make a example: In Battlefield 3, with the Back to Karkand DLC, they introduced the FAMAS gun. When it released, it was a complete beast. You could basicly snipe people across the map with it. Patch later they overnerfed it and now it's just trash to use (they removed 5 bullets from the magazine and the reload takes ages and the damage is less). My point is, you can change something and when it doesn't work out, change it back or adjust a little bit. In the example of BF3, they could first make the damage less, patch after that maybe a bit more damage but a bit more reload time, etc).
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And when they release patch notes, the "known issues" segment is bigger than the fixed stuff hahaha 🤣
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Been waiting for years for them to fix certain bugs that are still in the game. They know about it, but. Man, I can't give these developers praise yet. The amount of things that they get done in this time is just.. Wow, really upsetting.
The devs don't care lmao. The fact they say they care about the community but don't. There are complaints around, and they change dumb things that don't even need to be touched.
What are the biggest issues in this game? *Alright guys, a certain perk is being complained about. Let's go ahead and nerf Pig guys.*
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Whether you agree or disagree with Scott (and I agree with him for sure), he does bring up a good point about the monopoly.
BHVR are seriously lucky that they have such a unique game and don't have competition. If a big games studio came in with a game that rivaled DBD, DBD would be at serious risk of dying out for good. It's worrying to be honest, because DBD is a game I absolutely love.
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That's really not true they obviously care, why change anything if you don't care.Maybe their throwing to much at us and we're overwhelmed?
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Many older players have either left for good, got tired of the game or are considering leaving, and you can't really blame them for it. The game just isn't what it once was. Not saying that everything has made a turn for the worse - the Devs have done a great job with many balance changes for example over the years, and we've had some good content here and there, but on the whole I think they could be doing a lot better.
Also, as ALostPuppy pointed out, it constantly feels as if feedback isn't acted upon. I mean I'm sure they read it, but most of the time there isn't even a proper response to it, let alone even the consideration of making changes to the game based on it.
I don't want to come across as disrespectful to the Devs, it's just really frustrating the way the game has been going.
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What are these ~600 employees even doing? They have no other MP games with a relativ high player count and "live service". So for what do they need that much?
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Look at the last few updates, the bug list is higher than ever. And the excuse they use is *man, that's hard to do and make.*
And they really don't care. Been playing since beta, changes have been made. These updates have been buggier and buggier. New killer won't make the game good again. Survivors, they are just reskins.
And you just answered your own question. Why change anything if you don't care. That's EXACTLY what they are doing. Not caring at all.
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You need to understand that this game has bugs all over. The hackers in this game are hacking in broad daylight. They even hack on streamer's broadcast.
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y'all complaining, but you forget that the developer were hard at work making sure the new animation had t-bag.
that's real commitment there.
See ya all if i get ban
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I've been one of this game's biggest cheerleaders. I have over 1000 hours in the game, I've bought every DLC, and a skin for every Killer w/ the exception of The Twins. Believe me, I've spent plenty of time and money on this game. I've been willing to defend the devs/BHVR for a long time now, but even I'm getting rather tired of their lack of communication, misguided direction, and seeming laziness and greed. I used to play this game 24/7, but now I only play when something new is being added or when the rift actually has something decent to offer.
I despise posts of people saying they're quitting the game, as it just comes across as entitled and narcissistic, but I'm honestly starting to see why. The Twins and 2020 Halloween Event were absolute disasters, and I'm very unimpressed with the changes brought to the PTB, which brought about a whole host of bugs as per usual. However, I understand the constraints brought on by the pandemic, and I don't want to see anyone suffer just for a video game. The game industry is already extremely hostile and abusive as is. I will continue to love and support this game, but right now, I feel extremely let down.
Post edited by Gods_Lil_Reject on0 -
Meanwhile, Cyberpunk 2077, a triple-A title in development for longer than DBD has existed and with a dev team worked to the bone was released with so many bugs that Sony pulled it from the Playstation Store. Maybe one day it'll get its bugs patched, but I wouldn't bet on it being any time soon.
So let's put that into perspective as well.
People always say the overly simplistic phrase: "Competition makes things better." But that's simply not true. Competition only makes things more competitive. And that often stifles innovation and rewards dubious practices. It puts companies in a spot where they don't want to share their toys. Can it help produce better products? Sure. For a time, and to a certain point. But it doesn't mean the brightest and most brilliant rise to the top, or that issues get fixes.
The fact is, the devs have done a lot. They could easily just sit on the game, release a new killer and a new survivor every 3 months, and leave everything else as is. Instead, they're updating the maps, updating the animations, and doing them as free updates (rather than releasing a sequel, that potentially could make them a lot more money). They give us things like cross-progression and cross-play. They update perks, maybe not at a rate which we'd like but they're still updating them. They could've easily left Fixated as it was, and while people would complain... most wouldn't quit over it. They're trying to balance the game (a PvP game, which Path of Exile isn't, at least not strictly) and it's more delicate than a lot of us would like to admit.
Would I like to see changes made at a faster pace? Absolutely. But I understand why we don't. It's a lot more complex than we'd like to admit. There are more than 20 killers to consider and several perks that can interact with each other in several different ways. To the player, changes seem simple. But to the developers, it's much more complicated.
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Yes the game is in the best state it has ever been (balance wise).
But there are still a TON of issues in this game that needs to be adressed:
-Awful optimization
-An insanely horrible grind that is very frustrating for newer players
-Lack of simple QoL changes and accessibility options
-An absurd amount of bugs in the game that haven't been fixed even though theose have been around for years
-Rediculously slow and way to careful balance changes (e.g trapper still can't have 2 traps basekit after 4,5 years or they took like 1,5 years to figure out that Fixated should work in the injured state)
-Battle pass grind
Etc.
This game has still a loooooooooong way to go.It's current state is absolutely not acceptable
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change a perk buff/nerf maybe change meta. can be. In an asymmetric game, buff a side can result in a significant loss of players.
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If that's not what you meant then you should really work on articulating your thoughts better, because you're worse at it than BHVR is at fixing their messes.
Bye weirdo.
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Seen this video and he is completely right. I honestly find it extremely disappointing that the team at Behaviour does not want to put more effort in their game. If they truly did care for it, they would be on the grind trying to balance and fix as many aspects of the game as possible.
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It's not just path of exile devs. So many other devs do so much more for their games than BHVR does with dbd. It shouldn't come as a surprise to people. Players are still playing the game and buying cosmetics, dlcs, rift passes, rift tiers etc. So there is no point for them to do anything different.
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Glad someone decided to make a post about this just to circulate it a bit more. Everyday I question more and more if I should stay with this game because of how incompetent this dev team is, they rarely change things that are already in the game and when they do their changes are mind bogglingly stupid. I know the devs and the mods on these forums are so sick of hearing how terrible they are but that's because they don't do anything. It's not just path of exile, you can compare DbD to most games on the market and the shear laziness and refusal to cooperate with the community is just insulting. I've made this comparison a lot lately but why is it that most pc games from 1998 have more options in their settings menu then a game from 2016? It doesn't make sense, to change anything that 99% of games allow you to you either have to go into an .ini file or mod the game. I've been with this game since week 1 of launch, things have gotten a lot better in terms of balance from then till now, but DbD still lacks a fundamental level of polish that other games have, I hate saying this because of how much I love this game and how long I've been with it, but I truly believe that if another asymmetrical horror game comes out that gives me anything close to the enjoyment I get from DbD, I'll probably drop the game entirely. One of two things are gonna happen when competition shows up, the devs are actually gonna start trying, or the game is gonna die in a matter of months.
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Watching this video pissed me off actually, because he's right. I spend way too much money on this game, probably time to stop that.
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DBD is not like Path of Exile. They can't go in and change several perks all at one time, several killer powers, several maps, UI, animations, all at one time. There is a lot of balance at stake. There is A LOT of code that has to be changed. Nobody knows how all the code is intertwined except for the devs. Patch notes are not quantitative either. The one sentence of changing survivor locomotions and animations is a huge change whether it looks like it is or not on the surface. That change alone could equal an entire page of Path of Exile's patch notes in terms of effort and time required.
DBD is successful and they must be conservative with their changes or they can blow it up. From what I can tell, they are changing a lot in this update.
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It's never too late to stop ;) haha
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Who?
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SCOTT.
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Disagree altogether
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######### come on OniMacaroni why you gone ask me some complicated ######### like that man! You know I don't have the answer. lol but I'm not about to quit playing DBD.Im not sure what they can do.I don't believe it's bad,but is so bad 😭
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actually they can do all that together if all the team started working on this objective.
aslo path of exile as a lot of balance at stake too, so how behavior dev get a free pass and work when they want while path of exile dev have to work they ass off to patch and balance their game.
aslo yes you have to be conservative in some way, like not introducing event in the main game, but what keep them for adding an extra objective to make the game more interesting or add extra event map for fun and player retention.
you know like path of exile and 100 other game with smaller team and budget do?
i don't want to ######### on the dev i'm sure they're very pationate and wonderful people, but if what scott say is true about the work time this need to change right now cau'z they get nothing done with that and make the player infuriating.
hell i'll say it, dbd could have more than 200,000 player on steam right now if the game receive more attention and more useful and focus update from the dev.
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"I don't believe it's bad,but is so bad 😭" I'm sorry but are you high or something?
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This is honestly an excellent point. People keep saying a Triple-A company with the DBD formula would be much better, yet fail to realize Triple-A companies are just as lazy, greedy, and dense as people claim BHVR is, if not more so. CDPR just showed to the world that even the most beloved Triple-A companies are willing to lie and throw players under the bus for maximum profits. The idea that some benevolent Triple-A company will somehow make a better game without abusing the hell out of its staff and player base is ridiculous.
While I definitely want more out of the game, I don't want to sacrifice people's mental and physical health, just so I and other players can get what they want. With the pandemic going on I can understand why changes/updates are rather small. BHVR themselves even said they "outlawed crunch" which, if true, is very admirable. Take it with a grain of salt, as it was said by the CEO, and could just be PR garbage, but again, if true, is miles ahead of most Triple-A devs.
We all want to see Dead By Daylight improve, but I'd rather it not be at the cost of other people's wellbeing.
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Damn everybody today ok bring it ☝️
Are feeling Aggressive today?
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yes triple a is not the way to go, just look at ubisoft activision and ea. all hngry money compagny that milk their concept while doing copy paste with a lot of bugs.
only a strong indie or double a dev can be good competition
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Yes, every day!
Are you feeling naughty today, James?
EDIT: Wow that really didn't sound tasteful at all, sounded like a gay porno lmao
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YEAH ,unfortunately always !
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Without shitting to much onto BHVR but its sad to see how much success and attention they have gotten with that low effort and talent with just a unique concept. Compared to devs like 7 days to die, they are developing a open world survival zombie crafting game, nothing that new and unique but managed to update and develope that game so nice that it has become a great and wonderful game nowdays. They also made it far and reached some good amount of hype and attention but not as much as Dbd did by far, but they still put all their efforts into updates and new content into the game that it just is sad that the payoff isnt that big.
The devs should really rethink their motivations and goals, it doesnt seem that they put enough effort into their product... keep in mind guys that they are working on a new game meanwhile... after that disaster with Death Garden.
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Your assumptions could be totally right,but that leads us to another big issue with this game.
The lack of communication
There are a lot of problems in this game and the devs absolutely fail to properly adress them.It's important questions like
-Why is optimization still so horrible?
-Why aren't there any changes to the grind
-What about bugs that have been around for years?
-Where are accessibilty option and simple QoL changes (e.g perk and cosmetic loadout etc.)
Etc.
That the devs skirt around all the damn time,to the point that it's straight up insulting to the playerbase.
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Good vid, but I think it does miss an important point: The way the community behaves plays a great part in the whole mess as well. It's not solely on the devs.
It's on all players, how they play, how they 'demand' things must get changed and how insistent they are.
Just look at the PTB as a whole:
if people on the ptb play sweaty for nothing, you wonder why they are playing ptb at all. to be the best of the best and fuel their ego once something goes live, i guess. But barely anyone seems to test out mechanics, spawnpoints etc.
That said, it is ABSOLUTELY on the devs to not fix the known bugs asap.
People have said it before, but we NEED game health patches posthaste. all content patches ought to come second to that.
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Not only they take years to fix bugs but the PTB is slowly becoming the Publicity Test Build since bugs don't even get acknowledged after, let alone fixed like with the latest chapter. It's now just a way to create hype with the fog whisperers. Pretty sad that they show so little love for their own product.
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Yeah, I have to admit Scott really hit the nail on the head with this video.
People have been saying the same things about BHVR for a long time now. I'm just glad one of the big streamers finally had the guts to say what most players are thinking.
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It's like Scott said, as soon as one of the big developers decide to copy the DbD formula, the game is history.
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Its not so easy. Licenses are very hard to copy without copyright infringement. Powers are also very hard to copy without copyright infringement You can't release a killer that places traps or anything related to the name "Trapper". Despite what people think, DBD graphics and art direction is very good, Its definitely top notch standards. The only reason why its not of any higher standard is because not everyone has the most updated PC/Console and it takes a lot of time to optimize polygons. too little polygon count will make something look ugly, too much might make consoles or weak pc have fps drop.
I do agree DBD has very tight and limited changes per 3 month chapter(Balance/Gameplay change wise) but at the end of the day, you have to choose what you prioritize what changes and what does not with limited staff that decides when they add program for DBD and when they do not program at all.
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I am surprised a mod hasn't locked this already.
Normally they censor out these kinds of topics, especially ones when Scott is involved haha. Call it unproductive dev harassment or something along those lines; instead of what it is, which is just observable facts.
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@Echorion I'm surprised as well. Usually the censorship squad is the only team at Behavior that moves quickly. If it had been a certain celestial fruit instead of Scott you know this thread would be gone in a heartbeat.
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