The Devs Are Not Biased Against Killers

I know right

Well this statement is a lie..

What do i mean by this? Even if you're a Perfect Nurse / spirit. You still do not win against 100% Top tier survivors. and that's IF you don't mess up the blink / phases. Trust me. the BoTB showed this.. The devs are survivor Bias, and it 100% shows with the Unneeded Undying nerf.

Edit: forgot to mention that, the Killrates are completely Skewed with alot of survivors dcing / suiciding on hooks, so you Can't base the killrates on how good a killer is nowadays

your comment here carries weight but you also missed that the infinites were put back in with the map reworks by putting breakable walls where the openings were placed. new killers will not know which of these walls to break or not break to give the best advantage. Also this allows people to continue doing what they were doing for years before that. so a short lived map buff like that is a very minor buff. I mentioned the insta heals, but there are still insta heals in the game, you just have to be careful as killers have to be in order to keep themselves from being steam rolled. Map size is not a full addressment, as most of the maps that were lage to begin with ended up stating large (mother's dwelling) and lery's went from killer sided to survivor sided with the adjustments. so the map angle is a wash and it didn't move much in one direction or another.

I specifically brought up october 2018 and later and not before because i too have little knowledge of most of that I will disagree that changes making the game healthier were killer buffs. I pointed out several that were not healthy to killers and gave survivors a decided edge in the game. I did not say the only reason for the devs bias towards survivor as it is currently. Insta heals were being used in ways they were not ment to be because so many people would use them on themselves instead of on others in the game and that's when the devs went to change insta heals. Because survivors complained they were being left on the ground while they had instaheals . so the devs acted and nerfed insta heals.

The difference between Rank 1 Killer and Rank 1 Survivor is that Killers actually had to get there themselves, they had no one to carry them while I can easily carry a 20 hours noob to Rank 1 just by outplaying the Killers myself (or with my 2 friends in a 4x SWF). There is barely any skill requirement to rank up as Survivor. The side effect of that? Even low skilled Killers manage to rank up because they face those bad Survivors and eat them once their friends are offline.

Yes, those behaviors were there before Ruin was nerfed, but a lot of killers didn't want to use them, so they didn't. The Ruin nerf forced killers to use techniques they wouldn't have used before, in order to by themselves some time. Slugging initially went up by the increase use of DS, but became a strategy for slowing down gens. The difference is the DS slugging was only to insure the DS timer ran out, then they would get hooked. Now slugging is done indefinitely. Some killers even go for 4 slugs now.

I never said that they "won" being laid back. Winning (assuming you mean 4k) wasn't as much of a driving force. Most were just trying to get more BP, so more downs, more hooks, more chases. After that most killers didn't mind survivors escaping. I think that was more fun for everyone. With faster gen times, a lot of that disappeared, so killers resorted to other tactics, or quit.

As, I think I mentioned previously, most killers would have been fine with changes to Ruin, just not the changes that were made. They offered alternate suggestions, but they were ignored. Undying was probably something similar. I wasn't following that change, so I don't know what killers might have suggested. Your suggestion might have been fine, but again the devs made a much bigger change than was needed.

As for survivors not wanting to cleanse totems, that was a big part of the Ruin nerf too. Some survivors were complaining about having to look for totems, they didn't want to do it. If Ruin was out in the open the killer lost it early in the game. If it wasn't, some people just couldn't be bothered looking, despite tools/perks that make totems much easier to find. When those were suggested, those same people complained that they didn't want to waste slots on those "non-meta perks". I never had a problem with the old Ruin. It was slower, but just as easy to do gens. I even started running Small Game, especially once Inner Strength came out. I have avoided the forums for a while, so I have not really seen what people were saying about Undying, but I imagine that some of the same people were complaining about having to cleanse totems. To be fair, you have to guess when any perk is in play. Killers have no idea whether someone has DS, Unbreakable, or any number of other perks. Survivors have no idea whether the killer has BBQ&Chili, Nurse's Calling, Discordance, etc. Just like with many of those abilities, if a solo player doesn't know if some of those are in play, you assume that they are.

There are only 5 totems total, with 4 survivors. With Small Game or a map, you could find them just by going from one objective to another, but people don't want to have to give up other meta perks or items to use them. So killer powers get nerfed, rather than just tweaked. Some of the changes might not have been so bad if the devs actually hid totems. So many of them spawn out in the open, even right next to gens. That has been brought up countless times and it just gets ignored. That really seems like a pretty small ask, but no. Honestly, does that sound fair to you?

Yeah, it was Otz. He never mentioned Undying, so it could be what he was basing it on. IIRC, though, he was mostly talking about the time it takes to do a gen vs the amount of time it takes to cleanse a totem. It was about getting the gens done asap. Ruin, as it is today, only affects gens that aren't being worked on, so if you focus on a gen and complete it, Ruin is a non-factor, and skipping the totem makes that more likely.

• Toolboxes (much smaller capacity but larger boost - substantially fewer seconds saved over the course of the match from a toolbox)
• Coop repair speed (15% penalty per survivor instead of 10%)
• Both the above are due to the RUIN NERF so no they won't be accepted as toolboxes have been made sabo gods now.
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• Healing (takes longer than before) no changes since OCT 2018, this was done because healing was out of proportion.
• Maps (many were updated - infinites removed, strong loops weakened, pallet numbers generally reduced, standard tiles weakened, sizes shrunk, etc.) <=== infinties have been placed back in due to breakable walls and people who never knew about infinites do not know what walls to break and what to maintain hell i don't know every one to keep from making infinites! You're arguing that this is an issue when others are arguing that blood lust is a problem. might want to figure out what you want to worry about. maps have been fairly well balanced in general with some going survivor and some going killer and it's much more even so far this is not a nerf this is balancing.
• Vaulting (fast vaults require you to run straight at the window for a longer distance now) (note: vaulting was not changed, only refined to be what it should be so not a nerf, but to augment this the definition of slow/medium/fast vault now exists and instead of a vault THEN 0 momentum, you get the following: after a slow vault you have 0 momentum and must start running, fast vault: you maintain your momentum through the vault and do not have to regain it after, NOW: medium vault: 50% (I believe) momentum maintained, so you now as a survivor have easier chances to get away through a window thus NOT A NERF)
• Great skill checks while repairing (used to give 2% extra progression, nerfed to 1%) <== this was done in response to ruin changes
• Exhaustion (no longer recovers while sprinting) <=== was not ever intended to happen that way and was changed long before October 2018.
• Add-ons (now consumed when the trial ends) <== not a nerf, killers have always had to loose their add-ons, this leveled the playing field.
• Totems (improved hiding spots; it used to be impossible for the devs to place them too close to other objects) <== this brought it in line with what it should have been, you have also gotten more points from cleansing them as well. Totems are still VERY VISIBLE and I see them both as killer and survivor even when not looking for them.
• Meta perk nerfs (namely DS being switched to a 60 second timer) DS nerf? you mean ######### buff. before your DS was mitigated by Enduring now it is not, you no longer have to be the obsession to use it right away and the obsession is NOT the one with DS (if no other obsession perks in the mix). this is part of the problem with the issues of DS/UB combo which didn't work before because of the requirement of DS if your were not the obsession!

you don't want killers to close the hatch? then we'll go back to 30+ minute hatch standoffs Also know that with the advent of egc and hatch close, you got the hatch automatically opened for you to get out if you don't have a key, and if it gets closed you get the gates powered so you can get out that way... oh yea no more hatch grabs either. so you want to rethink the closing of the hatch? if you are the final survivor and there are 4 gens left, you no longer are trapped as failing your primary objective, you have the secondary objective of the hatch (btw still had to have 2 gens done before hatch was visible back then) and if that fails you now get the tertiary objective of get the gates open without having to do anything with the gens. love how killers have to deal with people that have all the chances in the world to escape. if you have a key even if hatch is closed you can still use key to open it and get out without the killer even being able to stop you unless they stand on the hatch itself leaving you to open a gate. so is the fact killers can close the hatch a nerf or a buff? it's buff with all that....

Perks and new meta perks being added? well one was nerfed into the ground, and the only one that matters was undying and that's down to barely ok because it's utility is severely limited. hoarder? not even something i would want to get in a blood web, why? because it gives you survivors two extra chests, and no limitations on rarity of items that come from it yet only the basement chest is going to alert the killer that someone is going through. that's a buff to survivors becuase it rewards survivors for the killer taking that perk. where is the killer rewarding survivor perks? no where what so ever. Clown buff allows survivors to use the new gas to get a speed boost.... where are the powers that survivors have that rewards killers for their use? no where. bubba? sure he was buffed some, but not all that much just a slight rework on his power usage and the add on items seperated from billy.... surprised you didn't try to pass billy's changes off as a killer buff... that was a killer nerf. Freddy rework... sure it brought a killer that was barely used to one that actually could do something and they have since nerfed him once and another nerf coming along because survivors complained. Doctor's rework? hmmm no more passive insanity gain he has a limit as to how often he can use his area wide shocker (his TR area that is) where as before all he had to do was walk around and you suddelny screamed as you went to another insanity tier. his shocks no longer instantly hit, now there is a detonation delay in which you can still drop a pallet or vault a window. this is a NERF for doc's utility. (stance shift is still in there from shock to attack so that is unchanged)

Finally survivors have had a few new meta perks added in as well but you don't bring them up... you have a perk that gives killers no warning that you can pull a pallet down at a certain point so killers now have to re-route around pallets this is a survivor buff if i ever saw one, and it isn't even an obsession perk! so everything you brought up laid low from being a killer buff or survivor nerf plus more. want to try again?

• MMR was broken when it was first released. bhvr is gunna break this again (I can't even defend them on this..)
• It's been a iffy situation with Perks, Maps. Items. Addons. Playstyle. (Skins? dunno if i wanna list that here) Offerings are meh at this point aswel. It's like the saying "You Can 4k on Any killer with No perks or Addons" Which is True in a sense... But against Actual Good Survivors. your chances of winning against them as a mid-tier killer or barely high tier killer is Very slim to none,
• Idk what tournaments do that kind of system. The one system that i've seen acouple is most points. (I.E Gens are 2 per completion. 3 if escaped w/o hooked. 2 if 1st stage. 1 if 2nd stage Etc) Then again i'm still stepping my foot in said Comp
• The other point i do wanna bring up though is the Bugs that plague killer that Haven't gotten fixed yet, What do i mean by this? Well... sometimes you'll get cucked over by your own powers. (Blight: Can instantly be Fatigued when he first starts running. Trapper's traps in the walls.. wraith taking longer to uncloak even w/o addons. Etc) and that's not going into full detail. Some of these Bugs have been in the game for Who knows how long. the Nurse bug even when you can't second blink or first blink https://www.twitch.tv/videos/876532560

You can't deny the fact that the devs will cater more to survivors thats just a fact. Theres more of them so they're the loudest group. Showing kill rate statistics is pretty useless imo. Only because anything can happen in a game like noed,over altruistic, or even a dc because they found the killer "boring". Map resize, insta heal nerf, vacuum pallets and nerfing infinites are great examples of QOL changes that made it more fair. Killers will always use the meta because their choices on perks to use is limited. 1 meme perk on a killer can cost you the game. But a survivor can bring 0 perks and still win. Survivors imo have gotten worse in terms of looping. Mostly because survivor has gotten easier. There should be a middle ground for both sides with equal treatment. But before the game "dies" because survivors leave the game killers will be the first to go. Ita obvious by the survivor que times. They always have been long its gotten a bit better. Survivor que times used to be like 20+ mins.

my point is not the addition of the breakable walls, but killers finally got the devs to listen to them, and for a short while things were going really well then the first round of map reworks cameout and those holes that were poked in the structure was boarded up by a wall. you could kick it down, but you spent time and got rewarded 100 points for it and that's it, and if the person playing killer didn't know that is a wall you have to destroy to break the infinite, then you might not even do so and you might not realize it for months or even a year because you might end up not ever finding out that you could break those damned survivors out of their chase. how fair is it on them? it isn't. new players are bombarded by "do this, don't do that" right and left and what sticks in their heads? "don't do totems, it's not worth it!, Don't break the breakable walls it only gives survivors an infinitie. both of these phrases are WRONG. you do totems, to prevent noed, to take down other hex perks and prevent them from being used. You break some but not all walls... who is going to teach this to the new players? NO ONE wants to because that's how people take advantage of the new players because of bullying tactics. IT just isn't a good thing to do something then wall it up again just because you can thinking EVERYONE will know this is a wall to break and this is one that is not one to break. You will come back telling me i'm focusing on the wrong thing and then tell me what i should focus on, I'll come back and tell you the same thing from both sides of the coin letting you decide which to believe so who's doing the right thing? I'll tell you it's not you because for several posts you have tried to prove a point that you can not prove at all and you use explain tactics to do so making it seem like you're explaining what's going on but what I am seeing is you trying to tell me I am wrong and I will never be right.

WOW you really like taking one part of a sentence and running with it. I didn't say they didn't know how the breakable wall worked I said they don't know which ones to break and which ones not to break. you have continually tried to push this idea that killers have all the advantage and i've shown you that you are wrong but you won't even admit that and come to an idea that was NEVER in my post what so ever. this tells me you are writing your own narative and not one of truth. i'm done.

SWFs is one of this game's biggest problems. It's either part of or a reason for a myriad of other problems. It should be in a mode that you opt into like cross platform play. That way killers and survivors can choose if they want to just play with/against solo survivors. It will cut down on bullying, toxicity and the overall game frustration that new survivors experience because killers are pissed off with SWFs or they're being used as bait and a farming resource.

But it makes sense to appeal to the group that will buy more skins from a business perspective. You're right on wasting a perk slot and that survivors used to be OP. But the difference imo is that if a killer brings a bad perk then it'll be harder for them to succeed but if a survivor brings bad perks their team mates can definitely make up for that. It has come to the point were if devs say they can't nerf this or do that because of "statistics" I can't trust them. Which is sad but I do feel like they aren't always telling the truth. But the main reason killer mains are so upset rn its because UB/DS have been in the game for years and are still untouched. Meanwhile undying/ruin were nerfed before a year. If you think ds and ub are fine then thats your opinion but i think the combo is very broken. When I say its easier I meant by looping most maps being reworked are smaller but the loops have gotten stronger which makes sense but if you get a god looper it will definitely show. Right now 1 chase can cost 1 or 2 gens and a half. Depends on how fast you can knock them down. Ques used to be very bad from watching streams and personal experience. Killer ques have always been fast but survivors ques are always taking like 6-10 minutes these days which is way better than like 2 or 3 years ago. It also depends on your region and time of day.

Come on. Slugging is not fun, for either side. That's why killers didn't use it, and you didn't hear all the complaints about it that you do now. Most people play for fun, not just to win. I also notice how you skip the part where you think that if players don't like slugging they should nerf it, and not fix the underlying issue that makes the game worse for killers. You can't fix any problem when you only look at one side. Don't fix the reason that killers slug, just penalize them for doing it. That is clearly a biased point of view.

Gens didn't seem too fast earlier in the games life, because you had a lot of people that didn't really know how to play the game. Someone would get hooked and 3 survivors would all stop what they were doing to go for the rescue. They also checked every chest they came across. Now, most survivors know to focus gens, and it happens very fast. There are countless videos out there of first gens popping in less than 30 seconds. The lowest one I remember seeing is 17 seconds. Many games are shorter than the time you spend in the queue.

Also, you ignored the question of why it is that new survivors are coddled, but new killers have to put up with being abused game after game.

I'll admit that I don't know the numbers of the old Ruin. I just know that I could repair a gen with nothing but good skill checks. I didn't get titled about regressing the gen, because I never thought of it that way. I just thought of it as taking longer and treated it like I was repairing a regular gen. Yes, Ruin was popular, but that is because gen times were so short. Most killers would have told you that would rather not have to take Ruin, and wouldn't have it gen times weren't so fast. Yes, Ruin was useable without skill from the killer, but it was a Hex perk. They are supposed to be powerful, and losing it had nothing to do with lack of skill by the killer or any skill of the survivor other than the ability to hold down the M1 key for 12 seconds. The fact that it could be lost in the first 30 seconds of the game made it a huge risk v reward.

And please stop talking about killers needing to apply gen pressure. That is just a survivor main talking point. It is just something that makes killers have to play sweaty to just do decent. And what about new killers. Do you think that is fun for them, to constantly get walked over? I noticed you ignored those parts of my previous post.  You talk about how Ruin was "oppressive" to newer survivors, but you completely dismiss how the fast gen times are oppressive to newer killers. Why does the game need to be made easier for new survivors, but not new killers? It is a huge double standard. That is the very definition of bias.

I have no idea what the point is of going back 4.5 years. That really has nothing to do with the topic, and I wasn't around back then. The only thing that matters is that at the time of the Ruin nerf, the totems were still showing up right next to gens, or other obvious place where you couldn't miss it. It's great that they are going to address some of them in the future, but it should have been considered BEFORE implementing any major nerfs. Map sizes, should have been addressed as well, and the lack of ability of some killers to even apply any kind of gen pressure. Sure it takes time, but they found time to implement breakable walls, which nobody wanted. God loops should have been addressed directly, not through some gimmick that didn't really fix anything.

If the game was perceived as being balanced for both sides, would you have even felt the need to make this post. It is clear that one side feels the game is more balanced than the other side does. Even the best killers in the game feel that it is survivor biased. Don't get me wrong, I would like to see the game improve, and do well, but I do not have the same opinion of the dev teams ability to balance the game. Maybe it's a bias toward survivors, or maybe it's because they test things internally, and their staff is not good at the game. I saw vids of them playing against regular players last year, and they got stomped. They played like new players that had no idea what they were doing. If that is how they judge how strong the killer side is, no wonder things are so unbalanced.