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Franklin's Demise

XayahXRakanFTW
XayahXRakanFTW Member Posts: 55
edited January 2021 in Feedback and Suggestions

I love getting a purple medkit from a chest and losing it right after getting hit with franklins demise and losing it within a minute of getting it. It's annoying too when you bring a purple item and just when the game starts you get found first, get smacked and drop your item like at least put a cooldown on the perk.

Post edited by Mandy on
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Comments

  • WishIcouldmain
    WishIcouldmain Member Posts: 4,082

    Then put the item in a safe spot. Franklins will get you the first time. Then go back pick it up put It down and you're good.

  • MeltingPenguins
    MeltingPenguins Member Posts: 3,742

    I love how all the comments that are in favour of Franklin's as it is have this undertone of 'oh, i never faced it but used it'...

    the perk, as it is now, is broken and gives an unfair advantage to killers. Also, if/when keys gets reworked etc it will become nothing but a douchebag perk to be toxic (even more so then now)

  • EvanSnowWolf
    EvanSnowWolf Member Posts: 1,583

    Franklin's Demise is literally the only perk in the game that is a counter to items.


    Deal with it.

  • Blueberry
    Blueberry Member Posts: 13,671

    If a killer's running Franklins he's wasting a perk slot. I'm fine with that any day on survivor. The item doesn't matter much. I don't see the issue.

  • XayahXRakanFTW
    XayahXRakanFTW Member Posts: 55

    It's really funny how you say go back when I DO wait for the right moment for the killer to stop camping my item and go back to get it just to get hit a SECOND TIME.

  • XayahXRakanFTW
    XayahXRakanFTW Member Posts: 55

    That's like saying killers don't need moris to win when they are killers survivors make the best with what they have which are items btw crazy right?

  • Huge_Bush
    Huge_Bush Member Posts: 5,424

    It's not in the description, but when I get hit by it, a little icon for it appears and it indicates a cool down of some sort.

    Even if there isn't one, just pick up and put down your item and you won't lose it.

  • SnakeSound222
    SnakeSound222 Member Posts: 4,467

    Drop your item right before you get hit. Easy counter.

    Also it’s just an item. Not a big deal unless you brought your last event item, but that’s on you as you knew the risks.

  • XayahXRakanFTW
    XayahXRakanFTW Member Posts: 55
  • StardustSpeedway
    StardustSpeedway Member Posts: 882

    Franklin's is only an issue when you're hit with it the first time. When you get your item back or a new item you just drop it before getting smacked. It counters it.

  • MeltingPenguins
    MeltingPenguins Member Posts: 3,742

    You really don't know what makes it give an unfair advantage, do you?

  • XayahXRakanFTW
    XayahXRakanFTW Member Posts: 55

    You forgot overwhelming presence and that's a counter to items.

  • XayahXRakanFTW
    XayahXRakanFTW Member Posts: 55

    There is very much a problem when two survivors bring items and both of them get hit and drop their items close together which almost makes it impossible to get your items back thank you very much...

  • SilentPill
    SilentPill Member Posts: 1,302

    No, please enlighten me why I would ever bring Franklins over a meta killer perk if there is no key in the lobby.

  • Blueberry
    Blueberry Member Posts: 13,671
    edited January 2021

    I still don't see the issue?

    You're complaining the killer is screwing around and wasting time fiddling with you and another guys items while the rest your team is pumping out gens?

    This sounds like an ideal situation I'd hope for as survivor.

  • SilentPill
    SilentPill Member Posts: 1,302

    This is also a guy who is saying overwhelming presence is a counter to items. I bet he thinks coulrophobia is a counter to healing too.

  • XayahXRakanFTW
    XayahXRakanFTW Member Posts: 55

    Except that never happens because items eventually disappear after being on the ground for too long and how would this work if you are playing solo randos are too dumb to cooperate and finish objectives make it make sense.

  • XayahXRakanFTW
    XayahXRakanFTW Member Posts: 55

    Hi I see you overwhelming presence is a BETTER counter compared to franklins because it applies to all items including med kits which prevents fast heals from med kit add ons make it make sense.

  • MeltingPenguins
    MeltingPenguins Member Posts: 3,742

    It's how survivors often play. Look at how many people in this thread alone proclaim to 'just go back and get your item' or 'drop your item before you get hit', basically calling for making sure you (as survivor) are stationary in a specific spot.

    That might not be a free kill, but def a free hit, because a lot of people WILL go back for their item, and get distracted looking for it.


    Frankly (no pun intended) they should change it to not have the items dissolve again, but let the killer pick up the item (after a while) and put it down either during the match, give it back to the survivor if they escape without an item or turn it into addition bloodpoints if the survivor dies (also make it work with white ward)

  • DeceptivePastry
    DeceptivePastry Member Posts: 48

    Franklin's is borderline useless even for keys. Once the survivors know the killer has it they can just hide their key in a corner somewhere, boom, wasted perk slot. If the killer camps the item then he loses gens. If he doesn't the survivor just picks it back up. I would only ever run Franklin's on Hag or perhaps 4 medkits. One of the weirdest perks to complain about.

  • UMCorian
    UMCorian Member Posts: 531
    edited January 2021

    We're whining about Franklin's Demise now, huh?

    Oh God save this game from awful survivor mains and the Devs who listen to them.

  • TWiXT
    TWiXT Member Posts: 2,063
    edited January 2021

    I disagree, as Franklin's Demise has strategic value to it in multiple ways. Survivors tend to value the items they bring in more than any they can collect from a chest in the trial/match (more on the chests later), be it a simple medkit or an ultra rare key/map, FD dropping it creates urgency to retrieve it, and that's something the killer can rely on. This was made all the more urgent with the addition of the 90 second timer before the item gets destroyed for good, and some killers can perfectly take advantage of this such as Hag, Trapper, and Pyramid Head, who can trap the fallen item(s) and force the survivors to give away their position when they try to retrieve it. In PH's case this is particularly cruel since he can cover the item with one of his trails of torment, giving survivors the sadistic choice of either retrieving it and getting tormented or letting it disappear, essentially though all 3 of these killers not only knock the item out of the survivors hands, they take them hostage.

    Currently the most broken item in the game is Keys, which have the potential to reward one or more survivors with a 5k BP escape no matter how poorly they played. Being that the only ways of preventing this escape are:

    1. knocking the survivor to the ground so they can't use the key,
    2. knocking the key out of their hand with Franklin's Demise,
    3. or shocking them with doc to prevent interactions with the hatch...

    The easiest and most universal choice to all killers should be obvious. Killers who bring in this perk against survivor teams with items do so because survivors who bring in items often have a build and a plan to go with them. It's unfair to believe that a killer who uses FD isn't good at the game, without also criticizing the survivors in the same ilk for feeling they can't win a match without bringing in said items in the first place. Playing around flashlights can be tricky enough as it is, but how exactly does a killer play around 6 second healing time medkit builds, Brand new part, or a map that shows the hatches location? I've already mentioned the only methods for beating a key, and surmised that FD is the easiest and most universal way, but while the killers have other perks like Overwhelming Presence, Coulrophobia and Lightborn to deal with the other items, those all rely on the conditions of either the Terror Radius's size, or the survivor using the item against them in their presence. They do nothing unless those conditions are met, and survivors can very easily play around all of the anti-item perks, including FD.

    What are the weaknesses to FD you ask? Simple:

    1. You can always replace a lost item by collecting another from a chest at any time during a match
    2. Jump in a locker before the killer can hit you.
    3. Dropping your item.

    The first is a no-brainer. Unlike killers, survivors don't actually have to rely on the bloodweb at all to gain items. They can pickup items dropped by teammates, or they can search chests for new ones. While the Chest searching option is more random than the bloodweb, It's recently become a lot less so with the buffs to perks like Plunderers Instinct, Ace in the Hole, and even the newly added Appraisal, which increase the odds of getting really good items. So if the killer destroys your item with FD, you have a plethora of tools at your disposal to counter this and possibly gain something better than what you had/brought in.

    The second is a simple method that forces the killer to grab you instead of making you drop your item with a hardy slap, but this is conditional. If you aren't on death hook, and are 1 hit away from being downed, still have your item, and in a chase... by all means, hop in the nearest locker to keep your item. Otherwise it's basically a surrender to the killer, and unless you brought in a white ward, it won't allow you to keep your item anyway.

    The third weakness is so laughably over powered against FD, I'm still shocked it hasn't caught on. If you're confused, don't worry...You read it correctly: Dropping your item. If you do this, then the item will not get devoured by FD, and you can pick it back up at any time to use when you need it. This weakness to FD renders it as a COMPLETLY WASTED perk slot for the killer. Sure, with FD's tertiary effect, the killer can see the items aura, and possibly take advantage of it if they are Hag, Trapper, or PH, but otherwise it's completely safe from FD's Destructive Secondary effect. Some examples of how to use this:

    You bring in a key, but get it knocked out of your hand with FD/or see another survivor drop their item after getting struck? Well then... stash it somewhere you trust to leave it, and return to get it when the hatch spawns.

    See the killer hit one of your buddies, and their flashlight hits the floor? Drop your own item, pick their flashlight up and drop it again where they left it.

    Killer swiftly approaching your gen? drop your item at the gen before getting chased, and return for it if they chase someone else, or after your chase ends and you either juked them successfully, or get unhooked.

    So OP... Knowing this, where does that leave your Opinion regarding Franklin's Demise?

    Do you Still believe that it needs to be "Nerfed" by adding a cooldown?

    I'd really like to know, Because from where I'm standing, it's a simple strategic perk that provides a decent counter to most items that survivors feel they need in order to achieve a win, but it's far from being worthy of your or anyone's complaints. Honestly, the counter play to FD is so ridiculously in the survivors favor... I cringe whenever I see posts like this. The only thing Idiotic about FD is how easily it's rendered a wasted slot.

  • EvanSnowWolf
    EvanSnowWolf Member Posts: 1,583

    If I see a Key in the lobby I am not swapping over to Overwhelming Presence.

  • TheClownIsKing
    TheClownIsKing Member Posts: 6,278

    Items aren’t mandatory to repair and escape. You’re being unreasonable letting Franklins tilt you.

  • Skullgrind
    Skullgrind Member Posts: 118

    Is FD obnoxious. Yup you bet it is. Is it annoying when it can be applied multiple time and changes the way you have to play the game? Yup just like DS. You give up DS and I will give up FD.

  • celesteismore
    celesteismore Member Posts: 173

    I was running a loot build with ace in the hole and plunders and the killer had franklins but with plunders I was able to see where the dropped item was.

  • JimbusCrimbus
    JimbusCrimbus Member Posts: 1,116

    In order for Franklin's to be even remotely useful, you literally have to camp the item. No bueno.

  • ImHexyAndINoed
    ImHexyAndINoed Member Posts: 504

    Soooooo why not Adapt? If Franklin's is SUCH a problem run plunder instinct to counter them. It's really not rocket science

  • sulaiman
    sulaiman Member Posts: 3,219

    I dont see this undertone. When i still played killer, i never used franklins. And now i am back at 100% solos survivors, and i still have no problem with franklins, even though i usually bring good items into the match. I think it is far from broken, the moment i realize franklins is there i just hide my items till i need it or i use it up as fast as i can. If the killer decides to camp the item instead, whatever item i brought just won the game, so the sacrifice is fair.

  • SnakeSound222
    SnakeSound222 Member Posts: 4,467

    Either you're trolling or somehow dropped your item at the wrong time.

  • Shirokinukatsukami
    Shirokinukatsukami Member Posts: 1,624

    It's annoying and I run Plunderer's builds allt he time. But not a big deal. Easily countered just by dropping the item in the middle of hte map and picking it up when you need it.

    I would much rather face a killer wasting a slot on Plunderer than bringing CI, IF, Ruin, Undying, BBQ, Devour Hope, Bamboozle, etc. Heck I rather he use Franklin's over Thanatophobia. Thanato is legit annoying.

    It is a minor inconvenience at best.

    Killers wasting a perk slot on Franklin's is actually welcome for me.

  • Shirokinukatsukami
    Shirokinukatsukami Member Posts: 1,624

    Overwhelming Presence is a legit counter to toolboxes at least. The toolbox disappears practically before you even get to use it.

  • PigMainBigBrain
    PigMainBigBrain Member Posts: 1,893

    Just pick it up again....my god....why do people find the tinyest things to complain about....

  • PigMainBigBrain
    PigMainBigBrain Member Posts: 1,893

    That timer displays how long you have to touch the item again before the entity grabs it.........and in case nobody has ever actually used the skill before (which is a lot of people btw) its a long ass time.

  • PigMainBigBrain
    PigMainBigBrain Member Posts: 1,893

    Dude.....everything on survivors side can be done....WITHOUT ITEMS! The one exception are flashlight stuns and opening the hatch with a key. Everything else that an item can do, a survivor can do EVEN BETTER with a perk instead. You want fast gens but don't wanna bother with a toolbox? <----There are several that do this, some of them with 0 downsides.

    You wanna heal your team mates faster but don't wanna lug around a med kit? Botany, We're gonna make it, the list goes on.

    You wanna sabotage a hook but don't wanna be bothered with a toolbox? There's a perk for that.

    You wanna know where every item box and totem is without carrying a map? There's perks for that.

    You wanna know where every generator is without carrying a map? There's perks for that.


    So have you ever thought about....instead of crutching the item to instead use a perk that does the exact same thing? I know its a completely new concept but uhhhhhhhhhhhh yeah there's other perks you can run besides DS Adrenaline Sprint Burst and Self Care.....

  • Splinterverse
    Splinterverse Member Posts: 445

    As a survivor main, I don't mind it too much. However, I think it is ridiculous for killers to run it during events where you are trying to get event-only items out of chests and escape with them. There have been events where it was really difficult to get the items out of the bloodwebs and your best shot was chests. Please don't run Franklin's during events.

  • Huge_Bush
    Huge_Bush Member Posts: 5,424
  • tortrader
    tortrader Member Posts: 539

    You're complaining about Franklin's because... you're a solo survivor player? This game is too rough for you.

  • gibblywibblywoo
    gibblywibblywoo Member Posts: 3,772
    edited January 2021

    Its a perk that exists exclusively to troll. While it sucks to lose a good item, worst case scenario the killer is kneecapping their build potential by wasting a perk slot.

    It's the same as Lightborn. Yeah it's annoying if you went for a FL save, but you've -already won- the encounter because that killer has wasted an entire perk slot for a situational passive. That slot could have had Pop/NOED/Spirit Fury/Bamboozle or something equally tough to go against.

    Lightborn isn't gonna help in chases, it isn't going to slow gens or regress them. It's not gonna counter any of your actual perks or let them reach you faster after an exhaustion play. Franklins is the same.

  • Toybasher
    Toybasher Member Posts: 922

    On the subject of Trapper, sadly it is possible to retrieve the item from the bear trap if they're careful when approaching it. They don't even have to disarm the trap.


    I actually wish trapper could interact with dropped items to place the item directly in the trap, similar to a mousetrap baited with cheese. A baited trap HAS to be disarmed before the survivor can retrieve the item.

  • PigMainBigBrain
    PigMainBigBrain Member Posts: 1,893

    "Its a perk that exists exclusively to troll"

    HARD PAUSE!

    It has extreme value against survivors who crutch items. Can easily ruin an attempted gen rush, can easily throw someone with a key to their death. Especially if you play a killer who makes survivors focus on something other than generators. The time you spend playing duck duck goose over a dropped flashlight, you could have spent on a gen, and if I kill your flashlight before a safe pallet I've effectively stopped the trendy flashlight stun while I'm kicking a damn pallet technique which is more annoying than anything (lightborn does the same thing btw) (And a flashlight save from taking someone to the hook can completely reverse the damn game.... If I drop your medkit in the middle of nowhere during a chase you can't self heal because most people with med kits crutch the medkit, not run perks that help with healing or self healing.

    NoED is trash and only works after you've pretty much lost all pressure in the match. It shouldn't exist, because games shouldn't go that god damn fast.

    Pop goes the weasel only works well on certain killers who can actually abuse it and take the time to kick a gen, its situational, and mid to late game impact.

    Bamboozle is trash, and situational, it implies you're looking for windows to cut chases into in the first place, when NOT EVERY SURVIVOR IS GOING TO PLAY THAT WAY and can easily just throw pallets. <---It is extremely time consuming to kick every single one of these damn pallets which is a much better time waste than juking through windows unless you hit a near infinite where this perk FINALLY WORKS.....

    And spirit fury is equally baited garbage <----I have to set myself up to lose, and get hit by pallets multiple times per match before it works ONCE so I can cheese it to get 1 HIT <---- And you think Franklins is a waste of a slot? Ya owkay.....

  • gibblywibblywoo
    gibblywibblywoo Member Posts: 3,772

    Items are a luxury for survivor. They aren't necessary to win by any means. Hence why bringing it is pretty much just a way to annoy people imo. And why I'll never use it. I also don't really care about hatch escapes because a win is a win. And survivors have to open the exit gates and escape to win.

    Your opinion about bamboozle is strange. Sure, they could insta drop the shack pallet, therefore removing my extra time save from additional loop from bamboozle.... But.... a good survivor will never drop a god pallet like that early, they'll eat the hit to waste as much time as possible. They'll also be completely screwing any future survivors chased out of getting any chase time out of the shack at all. Making it a complete deadzone.

    Noed is mediocre I agree. I don't use it as its a second chance perk.

    And again, if they counter your spirit fury by dropping early, you're still winning. The time they waste from additional loops lost adds up over the course of the match. You also don't have to be stunned by pallets for it to work (though it helps with enduring, you'll get tons of trade hits and a free 2 hit down if you trade into SF. In fact, Spirit Fury plays can allow an M1 killer to down faster than some insta down killers). It's an objectively great perk for half the roster.

    Time is everything for killer, as long as you're against non-potatoes. Franklins also forces non-M1 killers to extend chases just to counter an item that can be picked up by a teammate.