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Franklin's Demise
Comments
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I think you are the one doing the trolling maybe you should go someplace else.
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I'm gagging by the amount of salt and toxicity from all these killer mains it really shows how much balance is valued in this game.
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Counterpoints to those weaknesses you mention
- It's always going to be a brown med kit/toolbox with little charges to make a difference.
- Jump in a locker so the killer can grab when I jump back out I won't lose the item but I'm not giving the killer hook states no thanks.
- Like I said been there done that didn't work not doing it again
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It's pretty good on Hag since you can trap the item instantly and many survivors goes back to it injured and it's a free down. When I play Franklins on Hag I get so many disconnects for some reason though 😄
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This is why we should nerf Overwhelming Presence, smh. /s
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you have 90-110 seconds (depending on the tier)to pick the item up. That’s a little more than a minute, almost two minutes. Go back to the item as soon you’re in the clear.
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Nerf?
Why would Overwhelming Presence need a nerf?
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I was being sarcastic, don't worry.
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There are no perks to counter killer addons. Any survivor perks that counter a specific killer power(which is equal to an item), has been nerfed into the ground.
Let alone that Franklins bypasses White Ward too, while survivors do not have any perk to bypass Black Ward.
I dont mind the concept of Franklins in the game, but you cannot argue that it's balanced right now. It can take 4 entire bloodwebs to get the item and addons you need for a build on survivor, having a single perk cost a survivor 100k bloodpoints is simply not fair when in the average game, survivors earn back 25k BP. Having an addon like White Ward not even protect against Franklins(which would be fair, you'd remove the item from 1 match, but the survivor keeps it for the next)
Meanwhile a killer can play 1 game with survivor pudding+BBQ and easily gain 90k BP, returning all his investments into new addons and can protect his addons with a Black Ward and be guaranteed to not lose his addons.
No matter how you spin it, that is unfair, unbalanced and needs fixing. I dont think the concept on Franklins is the issue, killers need a counter against items. But as long as Killers dont have any risk to lose their addons, it simply is unfair.
And yes, I can make the argument that a lot of killers do not require addons to win a game. So the argument that items are not needed to win a game isnt a good argument. Items and addons are meant to make a game easier to win, it's the grind that's unfair. Heck, I sometimes play hours upon hours of killer just to refill my survivor items and addons because survivors dont have a viable grind to supply them with items.
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Survivors aren't meant to have a perk that completely nullifies a killer's power. That'd be busted if all four survivors ran it. It's bad enough playing a stealth killer vs Spine Chill, especially tier 1 Mikey. Might as well not exist on the same map as them at all.
I suck at survivor and even I can fill my coffers running Plunderer's Instinct and Ace in the Hole. Killers don't have chests to loot. And most killers don't have anything as powerful as a key.
You say killers don't require add-ons to win the game. Sure, but killers are designed to need add-ons to function decently. Their base powers are weaker than they should be so that players will use add-ons. Some people can still win without add-ons, but some survivors can also win without a single perk or item.
Killers have powers. Survivors have resources on the map to help them, and pallets and loops used efficiently can be very powerful.
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Why should there be a way for Survivor's to disable Killer add ons?
Survivors get:
16 perks and 4 items with 8 add-ons
Killers get:
4 perks and 1 power with 2 add-ons
These things are not comparable. At all.
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Except that a killer has access to 20 addons while having a permanent "item" that can be refilled with at least 3 bloodwebs(roughly 150k BP) while having an offering that fully protects their addons. This is when the average killer BP per game is 30k, with BBQ easily doubling that and survivor pudding+bbq tripling that. Meaning its very easy as a killer to play 2 games with 4 addons, and potentially refill their entire addon kit.
Meanwhile survivors have access to 55 addons AND 18 items that require at least 12 bloodwebs(roughly 600k bp) and have an offering that only protects their items and addons if they die. They still lose addons when they escape, lose their items through Franklins etc. This is also when the average survivor BP per game is 20k, with escape cake possibly doubling that but WGLF isnt exactly strong enough to be as meta as BBQ is. Meaning that survivors need to play 13 games to fully refill their entire addon and item kit. Assuming survivors use items and addons every single game too, that means that every single game they would have to use a different item and addons.
I am not saying that there should be a perk that would permanently disable a killer addons(perhaps 1 addon temporarily, example: if facing an instakill T3 myers having a perk that disables a killer's addon when stunning him could either push Myers out of T3 or temporarily disable his instakills for a short amount of time). But if we're gonna be fair, survivors should be able to have access to a perk that still removes a killer's addons even if there is a Black Ward in place.
And other than only a handful of perks, killer perks and addons heavily outclass survivor addons. Any grey killer addon would be equal to a yellow or green survivor addon, any killer ability easily tops the item of survivors. It takes the combined value of 4 items and 8 addons to topple 1 killer ability and 2 addons. It takes the combined value of 16 perks to topple 4 killer perks.
The argument of 16 perks, 4 items 8 addons would only work if they actually were equal in power, which they are not. The only survivor perk that is actually too powerful is OoO as there is no vanilla counter other than camping that person to death. Because if that argument holds, I can easily argue 13 games vs 2 games.
This is why chests are not overpowered, as they are necessary to reduce the amount of BP spend for survivors.
The actual balance of items is a whole other issue, which doesnt have any impact on this. Yes, some items need to be (slightly) nerfed, other items need a (slight) buff. Just as some killer addons need a (slight) buff or nerf. That is not what I am arguing about. But looking at Franklin's and it effects specifically, yes, that is 100% unfair.
The survivor perk I have in mind that would mirror Franklins would be extremely weak, would only work for 20 seconds max and cannot stack with itself. I dont mind Franklins removing items from a match. My problem is that Franklins deletes items from the game entirely, regardless of offerings or perks used by survivors.
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I never stated the effect would completely nullify a power, let alone that it would stack. Spine Chill is easy to work around with.
"I suck at survivor and even I can fill my coffers running Plunderer's Instinct and Ace in the Hole. Killers don't have chests to loot. And most killers don't have anything as powerful as a key."
That requires 2 perks and you escaping the match, while there are only 3 per match. Let alone that it doesnt always give you an item. As for anything as powerful as a key? Noed and mori's fill that role. Sure, mori's were nerfed hardcore, but keys are not that powerful. The only REAL power a key has, is 1 gen left with 3 survivors alive. That still requires survivors to almost complete their objective, while mori's(before their nerf) required killers to do less than 1/3rd of their objective. Now, what seems more balanced? Survivors doing 2/3th of their objectives to have 3 survivors escaping, or a killer doing 1/3rd of his objective to kill 4 survivors? I am not arguing keys need a nerf(personally, all I would change is the hatch not appearing untill 2 survivors are left, that way all a key can do is make the game a draw, which is fine). But you cannot argue that, up untill 1 month ago, killers didnt have access to anything as close as powerful to a key. Ebony Mori's were universal. Add on to that, that most killers had access to addons that instadown survivors without requiring much skill.
"Sure, but killers are designed to need add-ons to function decently."
Just like survivors are designed to need items and addons to defend themselves against a good killer. Sure, loops and powerful pallets are a thing, but except for a handful of poor map decisions(backwater swamp having tiny bits that prevent a killer from optimally walking while survivors easily walk over it, or Leri's having 3 god pallets without having any breakable walls), loops arent that powerful anymore. It actually requires a survivor to loop and mindgame better than a killer can chase and mindgame to make a chase last longer than 40 seconds.
"Some people can still win without add-ons, but some survivors can also win without a single perk or item."
Irrelevant to the topic at hand. Just because some people can, doesnt indicate the game isnt balanced, just that those people are extremely good at the game. You have people good enough at a game to literally knife everyone to death, that doesnt make knives OP in that game.
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You seem weirdly obsessed with blood point costs. Which are not relevant to gameplay.
And I get like 30K a match. I've never gotten 90K outside of an event.
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They are heavily relevant to gameplay tho, it's a reward you get that you invest in addons and offerings for future games. Not recieving enough bloodpoints will heavily impact your gameplay.
And that's on you not using offerings or perks, my average killer BP per match is 85k because Survivor Pudding is easy to get, while my average survivor BP per match is 37k depending mostly on if killers camp&tunnel or not, and escape cakes are very rare considering there are 73 other things that fill up survivor bloodwebs.
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No, they really are not relevant. An item's bloodweb cost has zero impact on its effect during a game. Zero. Zilch. Nada. It may affect how FREQUENTLY you can use them, but their gameplay does not change.
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"But you cannot argue that, up untill 1 month ago, killers didnt have access to anything as close as powerful to a key."
I wasn't talking about then, I'm talking about today. There are a few add-ons like Iri Head that have the potential to basically end a game early, but that's why I said "most killers."
"That requires 2 perks and you escaping the match"
Yes, it's a chest looting build. Like BBQ, Beast of Prey, and Distressing or WGLF, Prove Thyself, No One Left Behind are BP builds.
"Irrelevant to the topic at hand."
I was trying to make the point that killer powers are designed to be weak so that players will use add-ons, meanwhile the environment itself is designed to help survivors (pallets, loops, even chase music is loud to give injured survivors a chance to escape) to the point that a strong survivor chase perk (like old Balanced Landing) can really monkey wrench the whole thing.
Killers need add-ons to make them viable. They were designed that way. That's why there are so many brown and yellow add-ons. The more powerful or niche add-ons usually have built-in drawbacks and often require a map offering to be useful, and survivors can cancel out map offerings.
Survivors were not designed to require items to be viable. That's why toolboxes got so heavily nerfed after Ruin was changed.
And if we're going to talk about Bloodpoint costs, every killer is different and requires BP put into them infinitely in order to get more add-ons. Meanwhile, a survivor only needs to have one main. Players can level up other survivors just to unlock perks, but only one survivor character needs BP put into them infinitely. And survivors can loot chests and keep add-ons by using a perk rather than an offering.
If the killer doesn't have Franklin's, the survivor gets to keep their item, and if the survivor uses a ward or Ace in the Hole they get to keep their add-ons, too. Meanwhile, without an offering a killer's add-ons can be totally wasted due to disconnects or a bad map. Killers don't get to keep their add-ons just for winning the match, either, but a survivor does get to keep their item for escaping.
There would be nothing fair about taking away a killer's add-ons, and a weak killer is boring to go against, just like inexperienced survivors who don't know how to use the map are boring to go against.
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Yea it’s annoying but it doesn’t happen to you every game so suck it up. It’s rude but the perk is fine where it’s at
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