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The strength of Hex Perks...
Lets have a friendly discussion, shall we?
Hex perks are meant to be the ultimate high risk, high reward perks for killers. They are meant to be obscenely powerful but at the cost of being able to be "turned off" by survivors.
Many a time over the years, survivors have complained about the strength of certain hex perks, and a common response is given to them: Do bones. Survivors have never really been a fan of that response. They dislike that there is no way to tell how many totems are left on the map at any given time (For the record, I'm all in favor of adding a totem counter to to the survivor perk 'Small Game'), and they don't like the fact that they may need to break a specific totem just to stand a chance against the killer. To be fair, this is a good point, to some extent. You shouldn't lose the game just because you cant find a hidden totem
As such, survivors would complain, and Hex Perks would get "reworked". Looking at you, Ruin and Undying, and don't even get me started on how many times NOED has been changed over the years.
Some survivors believe that a hex perk shouldn't be so powerful that they need to break a totem just to stand a chance of surviving. On the other side of the equation, killers' typical response would be something along the lines of "If its not going to be powerful, then what is the point of a perk that can (and will) eventually be turned off by the opposing team?" To be fair, that is also a good point. All killers' perks are strong, but shouldn't hex perks be super-strong, since they have the ability to be completely negated if a survivor is lucky enough to find the corresponding hex totem?
And all of this is completely ignoring the fact that some hex perks are to weak to be considered hex perks. (*COUGH* Third Seal and Retribution *COUGH*)
Thus, I leave you with a question that, quite frankly, has no easy answer: Should hex perks be so super-strong that survivors should find that totem ASAP to have a stronger chance of surviving? OR, should they only be strong, but not strong enough to demand focus from survivors, despite the fact that they can be essentially "turned off" if a survivor happens to stumble across it?
Discuss.
Comments
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Hex perks are garbo on like 80% of maps and only made viable by undying.
The nerf will usher them back into oblivion; and everyone will go back to corrupt pop once they realize devour undying will still get cleansed in the first two minutes of the game half the time.
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I stand by the argument that hexs should be strong enough to warrant to search for. Thats like saying you will run red herring over diversion(Not the best comparison but bear with me). Red herring is weak and will likely get no use while diversion has a chance to actually get a play off of it. Nobody wants to waste a perk slot for something that won't help them. And as for the "do bones" response, you could honestly bring a map to not waste a perk slot if it becomes repetitive to keep finding totems
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Hex perk put more RNG in game. Undying make more more secure to killer amd free aura reading. The problem is skill rewards perk are trash or have too long cooldawn, the only viable is this category is pop.
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If your not gonna break totems then you shouldn't have any issue with the strength of a hex. A hex being to strong by itself is laughable because you can destroy it and none of them give the killer any pressure until conditions are met.
Make hex worth the risk and drop the ridiculous drawbacks.
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Maybe we should turn some of survivors perks into hex perks that a killer can find and disable.
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The current state of the game IMO, is that hexes are so weak that a huge number of survivors do not even cleanse lit totems. Personally, I don’t see how anyone can argue that any of them are too strong at this point. If it were up to me, I would definitely increase the strength of hexes quite a bit, and have a much larger variety of them. I believe each killer should have a hex in addition to their regular perks. Just to be clear, I am a survivor main, and I only play solo queue.
One big thing they could do is simply to remove hexes from the blood web, make all of them only their full strength, and allow each killer to equip up to two hexes in addition to their regular perks.
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from my personal experience, ex totem are garbage, they get destroyed in less than 3 minutes(or even less if you find good survivors) because the spawn is....stupid;
in front of a gen/ on the top of a hill/ next to a gen!/ in the center of the map 100% with nothing hiding it/in the middle of some strong loops etc etc.
the only perk that could avoid this " ahaha, hex goes poof in 1 minute" situtation has (obviously) been nerfed....
hex totem must be reworked, or atleast improve the spawn points and hide them a bit better....
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Every perk is a balance between payload and counters. Some perks are either not particularly strong or self-regulating such that an active counter is not needed (Autodidact holds itself back, Adrenaline is kind of countered by NOED). DS can be countered by 1) not tunneling 2) let's be serious, just slug. Unbreakable is a pretty meh perk in most circumstances, which is why its counters are pretty sparse. It's the opposite of the hex perks: highly variable payload, consistently difficult counter. Botany knowledge isn't great, We'll make it times itself, and the exhaustion perks have the exhaustion status effect.
Hex perks do away with this fragile balance by replacing the counter with a prayer to RNGesus. Good survivors will get used to totem spawns, and then it's gone. The strength of its counter is heavily dependent on chance. That's why I never run devour hope; it requires a large amount of time to even become useful, all the while being vulnerable, for a pretty good, but not excellent, payload. In many cases with hex perks, the payload is simply not good enough. Huntress' lullaby is the definition of useless, ruin can be excellent in certain builds but usually gets cleansed in moments, retribution is simply not powerful enough to be a hex (or even a non-hex perk), haunted grounds usually only gets you one down and rarely any more, etc. I can understand the idea behind them, and I think it's a great idea, but they just are too inconsistent to see constant use. I generally think that a buff would be to lower the counters but also nerf the perks. Built-in old undying would be nice for something like 80/90/100% regression speed ruin, 7/6/5-token exposed devour hope, undying that only includes the aura reading and token retention, current-state third seal, lower token requirement huntress' lullaby, etc.
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If they aren't strong enough that the survivors feel the need to find and remove them asap then that defeats their entire point.
90% of the games current hex perks don't fit that description which is why they're hardly used and the only ones that currently are is because of the bandaid fix that is current Undying. Once Undying is gone they'll be rare again.
Strong hex perks is good for the game since it gives survivors extra objectives to do.
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The Undying nerf is more or less telling on how the devs view hexes:
They think hexes shouldn't be meta relevant.
Hex Undying was the only viable hex defence perk in the game that made hexes work as their design would intend being powerful but removable effects.
All previous hex defence perks are objective failures such as thrill and retribution doing nothing ultimately to truly defend/deter hexes from being destroyed.
However with Undying's nerf it's really telling that the developers just don't want hexes to be part of the meta at all as the only perk that made a non game breaking hexes meta got nerfed into the ground which will destroy the current hex using meta as lets be honest DH won't be meta.
TLDR: It just feels like hexes at this point have become failures in the dev's eyes and they want to bury them with nerfs so they don't have to deal with them anymore(Like they did with billy/nurse).
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Hex Perks should be the most powerful Killer Perks in the game.
however, you also need to be careful with them, to not make them too oppressing.
imo Hex: Devour Hope is the perfect Hex Perk - high risk, high reward, but also not for free.
i like the idea that Hexes start out weak, but grow a lot stronger very rapidly the more the match progresses, to increase the pressure on Survivors to find and cleanse the related totem. it also feels a lot better for both sides when the Killer actually has to do something to get his Hexes effects to work instead of it just being there at full power from the very start like Hex: Ruin.
i also like the concept of Hex Traps a lot, such as Hex: Haunted Ground or Hex: Retribution (i actually came up with the idea of Hex: Haunted Ground a while back - and it made it in! well, most of it at least xD mine was personal and included an aura reveal), to make survivors rethink their actions and whether they should really be cleansing this totem or not.
However, you got to be careful with a Hexes power, especially when it can be used to defend OTHER Hexes. Undying suffered that problem, where it just made it way too hard to get other Hexes out of the game, keeping their strong effects in the game for a very long time, which can be devestating for survivors.
so ffor Hexes to work you need to find that sweetspot where they arent ridiculously broken, but also not useless. if either is the case, they need to be looked at.
also, you shouldnt be underestimating Hex: Retribution that much. the Perk is actually really good in combination with other Hexes, as a 10 second Aura reveal can be VERY strong for the Killer and potentially turn the entire game around.
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Hex perks should be strong if they can be cleansed in the first few seconds of the game, at that point the killer is now down to only 3 perks and they have no way to change it. You cant have the perk be high risk with no reward, then there's no reason to take it over a more consistent perk. One perk that comes to mind is Hex: Blood Favor, a hex with so many limitations its not even worth being a hex at this point.
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I just went straight for pop for gen regression. I never bothered with ruin or any hex perks. Maybe if totem spawns get fixed to where they are all actually hidden and don't just spawn 10 feet away from a generator sometimes. It's pure chance whether you get a good spawn or it's in a spot that gets cleansed in 30 seconds and leaves you with a wasted perk slot.
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Its a good day when the Hex totem doesn't spawn next to the survivors.
Do bones is usually in response to NOED than any of the other hexes.
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I personally think the following hexs need reworks i have an idea for each of them feel free to criticise.
- Hex Retribution: (reworked) As long as this hex is active when a survivor cleanses any totem they become oblivious for 45 seconds, when any hex totem becomes cleansed you gain the undetectable status effect for 60/70/80 seconds or until you down a survivor.
- Hex Undying: (rework after it's next rework) When a hex totem is cleansed it replaces this totem and keeps all of it’s tokens. For each totem in the trial cleansing speed is reduced by 5%/10%/15%.
- Hex Thrill Of The Hunt: (reworked) When a survivor is within 2 meters of any totem their aura is revealed for 4/6/8 seconds. When a survivor cleanses any totem their aura is revealed once more for 5 seconds. As long as this Hex persists gain 50% more bloodpoints in the hunter category.
- Hex the third Seal:(added effect) As long as this hex is active up to 2/3/4 survivors hit with your basic attack suffer from the blindness effect. When you hit a survivor with a basic attack while this totem is active they also suffer from the oblivious effect for 15/20/25 seconds.
- Hex: Blood favor: (reworked) When you hit a survivor with your basic attack while this hex is active and Blood favor isn’t already in effect all pallets within 16 meters will be held in place for 10/15/20 seconds.
Quick reasoning on why i think the hexs should do this; retribution is a good concept but it is too weak, it should heavily affect survivors for the 1-5 times it gets activated and i feel that since the undetectable effect will only activate 1-3 times at most it is fair. There is no reason for undying to have it's aura reading effect if it's not on hex totems, i propose that it and TOTH should have their secondary effects switched since it would fit the other one better and be more useful and instead of alerting you to hexs being cleansed the aura reading aspect of TOTH will be very strong. The Third seal simply needs an extra effect, i think every basic attack making survivors oblivious for a short amount of time would fit this perk perfectly and would be a useful and fitting secondary effect especially for Hag. As for blood favor... it just doesn't need a cooldown.
edit: It's been awhile since i looked at my rework ideas for perks and I think i improved on the hex idea's i originally had also forgot that blood favor was a hex because it is just that worthless.
Post edited by AChaoticKiller on0 -
Hex perks realistically are going to be up for about 1/2 to 1/3 of the match, and thus give huge value to compensate for not only being unreliable but for being able to be completely destroyed. The two hex perks actually worth running give enough of a payoff to be worth using despite the fact that they can disappear anytime during the match. Devour Hope and Ruin.
Other hex perks just aren't worth running. Thrill of the Hunt on its own does literally nothing but help a killer farm. Third Seal is nullified by SWF, needs to be built up, and barely matters because survivors still get a big alert when someone is hooked. Blood Favor is countered by survivors moving to a different loop because its range is small. Retribution is unreliable and uncontrollable, often working as a worse Bitter Murmur. Huntress' Lullaby is... lol. bad.
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I mean yes if the perk is supposed to be powerful it should be looked for immediately remember when people actually looked for old ruin and it got clensed in 20-30s because it was a real hex perk and made an impact until gone so did undying it required a bit more effort and I'm ok with that
Same think with noed almost everyone when they see it pop say ######### I got to get rid of that
And start looking looking for it sometimes it dosent get found but more often it lasts 50s if the killers not guarding
My point is it can take 50s to cleans all the totems so why keep nerfing them?
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