Where I think each killer stands balance wise
I have 5 categories like this.
1. Big change needs nerf
2. Slight change small nerf nothing that changes their whole gameplay most likely cool down or add-ons.
3. Balance true perfection no way needs to be changed. Minus bugs or a slight nuisance to gameplay.
4. Slight change small buff they're okay but needs something for true viability
5. Huge change needs buff these killers are bad need huge amount of attention and love stomped by good players.
So here's the list
1. Huge Nerf: Freddy(His base kit gives him too much and has to do nothing to get it) Spirit( Standing Still shouldn't be a mind game and no clue to survivors what you're doing). That's it the only two I think genuinely need a decent nerf.
2. Slight Change Nerf: Pyramidhead (POTD cool down), Hag ( Something to eliminate most traps around a hooked person), Huntress (Only Add-ons need nerf balanced base kit.
3. Balanced Hillbilly, Nurse(Takes a lifetime to master), Doctor, Bubba, Clown(Buffed), Ghostface, Oni, Deathslinger, Blight, Twins.
4. Slight Change Buff: Michael Easier to leave tier 1 and more benefit to tier 3. Pig (Ambush should be silent and quicker and consistent RBT RNG. Legion & Plague ( Power too dictated but survivor actions). Demogorgon ( Quicker portals and Shred.
5. Huge Change Buff: Trapper( Brown bag base and traps easier to reach. Wraith( In my opinion weakest killer in the game worse then pre buff Clown needs full rework).
Comments
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If you think PH needs (another) nerf then you have most definitely never faced a full Rank 1 SWF team who just hold forward all game instead of camping pallets.
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If you think trapper is bad, you never played him with iri stone and purple sack.
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Freddy doesn't need nerfs, he just needs to require more skill.
Huntress addon changes I can get behind. However they shouldn't be gutting her exhaustion addon like they did to poor Clown.
No other "nerfs" are needed.
I'd move Clown, Twins, Myers, Pig, Plague down into the huge buff category.
I'd move PH and Ghostface into slight buff category.
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How would you suggest take more skill? That would require a nerf to something
Exhaustion add ons were made around the time exhaustion came back during a chase, since that's no longer the case they need to go
Plague needs a rework but I think myers and pig are fine (I don't see the issue with them)
PH needing a buff? Yikes
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"How would you suggest take more skill? That would require a nerf to something"
Well it would be hard to do because of just how they designed Freddy from his rework. IE bad. He was made very simple like Clown but no one complains about Clown because he's weak. If Clown was as strong as Freddy they'd be complaining because there isn't much skill ceiling there. IE complaints come from a perceived skill to power ratio, meaning people don't mind strong killers if they feel they require a lot of skill. Scottjund actually released a video that summed up my thoughts on it pretty similarly. There was room for skill adding in Freddy's old design but new Freddy doesn't have much room for that even though it's what he needs.
In other words I'd incorporate some of his old features into current Freddy as they had room for skill expression. This is obviously quite vague but there would be a lot to type here.
"Exhaustion add ons were made around the time exhaustion came back during a chase, since that's no longer the case they need to go"
And even with current exhaustion addons, exhaustion perks are still way too strong and have literally no downsides, costs, or negatives. Just because they were made during a time when exhaustion was way strong, does not defacto imply that they need to be nerfed. There is literally zero reason not to run an exhaustion perk right now if you care about winning unless you just want to meme. That is a sign of poor design. You should always be weighing pros and cons when picking perks. You do that on many killer perks, but very little on survivors ones, like most the exhaustion ones.
IE just because something that was OP got nerfed, doesn't mean it's not still OP, it's just less OP.
The exhaustion perks are literally a 3rd health state every 40 seconds..that's insane. As if the counter play wasn't already abysmally non existent, you want it even less.
Lets take a look at current exhaustion perks or addons that are at the level of where you want these better exhaustion addons brought to. Are literally any of them used almost at all? No, they're not. Why? Because they're trash. What's worse is we are in a meta where every single person runs an exhaustion perk...so in a meta where it is the absolute best case scenario for those exhaustion perks/addons and they still aren't being used...that should tell us something.
"Plague needs a rework but I think myers and pig are fine (I don't see the issue with them)"
Myers is pretty easy to bully, he needs some buffs substantially. Pig however is trash.
"PH needing a buff? Yikes"
He still gets bullied. No map pressure and poor design his cages and ranged attack that need reworking.
I'd push him more in the rework direction than I would buff to be more precise. Poor design choices on a couple things.
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I don't use exhaustion perks and do just fine without them I think you're exaggerating a bit, heck balanced got nerfed and dead hard doesn't work half the time while head on is a meme so idk what you want done to them
I used to main pig (but stopped when spirit got released) and idk what her issues are. Traps add slow down (despite pig players being big on tunneling) I guess work some of her add ons
PH needs a rework on stuff cause the tunneling, getting hit through walls and not really being able to use windows and pallets (main survivor defenses against him is annoying since if you do you get hit and the free tunneling he gets with the cages is awful
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Yes, because instead of fixing problems it's more productive to point out another and pretend the first one is justified.
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"I don't use exhaustion perks and do just fine without them I think you're exaggerating a bit, heck balanced got nerfed and dead hard doesn't work half the time while head on is a meme so idk what you want done to them"
I never implied you need exhaustion perks to do well. You don't need any perks to do well. Balanced is actually one of the few exceptions that I do think is balanced well. It has bad and good maps, and you risk not playing near certain spots for it on maps which requires you to play around it. IE it's got costs/risks and downsides. It's situational enough to warrant its strength. Dead Hard not working is ping related, not perk related. Even then, used properly you can avoid the ping issues. Head On is the other exception that is fine as well. It's situational.
I'm more talking about the other exhaustion perks.
"I used to main pig (but stopped when spirit got released) and idk what her issues are. Traps add slow down (despite pig players being big on tunneling) I guess work some of her add ons"
Her main issue is how trash her crouch/ambush is. 99% of the time her ambush isn't even worth using and you're better off going for the m1. That's a sign of bad design. She also needs less RNG on her trap effectiveness and she needs a full addon pass as most of them are quite bad or encourage "not fun" game play.
"PH needs a rework on stuff cause the tunneling, getting hit through walls and not really being able to use windows and pallets (main survivor defenses against him is annoying since if you do you get hit and the free tunneling he gets with the cages is awful"
We want to have PH essentially getting hits when out of LoS. IE behind walls and making skill shots. This raises the skill ceiling and makes everyone feel like they have outplay potential. We'll simultaneously nerf the "hitting during locked animation" plays.
We do this by increasing the recovery time on canceling his attack without using it to allow for the survivors at windows/pallets to being to fake it (similar to Huntress) while simultaneously decreasing the recovery time after the ranged attack and making the attack quicker. This essentially encourages him to hit skilled LoS hits behind walls.
We also need Tormented to be applied on successful ranged hits. Currently your likelyhood of Tormenting good survivors is significantly low so you are rarely caging that often.
All of this makes him use his ranged attack for skill shots more often because it no longer feels overly punishing for missing and rewards him more for successful hitting them, while simultaneously now adding more opportunity for survivors to fake him at pallets or windows if he puts his sword down for the ranged hit too early. Now when you get hit as survivor it doesn't feel cheap because he predicted your movement through a wall and it wasn't just when you were locked in animation.
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Okay so nerf lithe and sprint burst how? One limits you to walking most of the match and idk about lithe
Her ambush is good for getting hits at loops with mind games at loops and suppressing her TR, as for her traps I guess make it to where you gotta search two boxes at least
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Depends how you wanna tackle this. If we wanna go individually, we could make Lithe give you very tiny bit slower vault speed and SB give a very tiny bit slower walking speed. We could also go a simpler and more broad stroke route of tackling Exhaustion by giving it a much longer cooldown, making it not recover while injured, or maybe your breathing and pain sounds are significantly louder while exhausted. One of those, not all.
"Her ambush is good for getting hits at loops with mind games at loops and suppressing her TR, as for her traps I guess make it to where you gotta search two boxes at least"
Any loop you can get a hit with her ambush at against a good survivor you could have just mind gamed an M1 and the loop wasn't very safe to begin with. IE it helps on the loops you already don't need help with and is useless on the loops you do need help with. Unlike an M1 it's also heavily punishing for a miss so you're risking much more by going for it instead of the m1. Supressing her TR at loops is irrelevant because she makes a sheathing noise to tell you she's doing it.
I agree that the simplest change for her trap rng problem is to guarantee it will never be the first box.
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Just commenting to say BUFF PIG plz devs <3
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"Standing Still shouldn't be a mind game" laughs in insidious bubba
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Wraith doesnt need a full rework. With windstorm addon as basekit and maybe the yellow bell addon, he is decent.
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A full rank 1 swf will annihilation anyone not just PH. The game isn’t balanced around them because it shouldn’t be.
PH is fine now though
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Ah yes, the only 2 addons that make trapper a better than average killer. This is exactly why trapper needs a buff. I mean, this is like saying Myers doesnt need a buff because infinite t3 is a possibility.
The only way to sustain those addons is to be a p3 killer. And to be forced to grind 7 million bloodpoints to have a consistent viable build like iri stone and purple sack is being a balanced killer in your opinion?
In what world do you think a killer is fine when his 2 strongest addons make him slightly better than average?
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You're right.
I guess I should mention I posted that comment after facing a full rank 1 Object Of Obsession team on Midwich today so I was kinda moody when I posted that.
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I mean, there is almost zero reasons to run gen regression perks with most survivor builds nowadays, especially since loops are made better and maps are made more balanced both ways. Yet people still heavily rely on using Pop in 3-gens and ruin/undying.
Exhaustion perks are fine. They are there to discourage chasing. Especially since killers could theoretically chase you off-hook and rush a kill before 2 gens are even finished. If exhaustion perks need a downside, killers should get a guaranteed depip for rushing a kill. Exhaustion perks exist to reduce kills being rushed, just like DS exists to reduce kills being rushed.
I mean, if there is no obsession in a game, the only way to not get rushed out is by having an exhaustion perk, if you dont have an exhaustion perk in a game without obsession, you're going to be dead within 2 minutes and you might aswell suicide on hook.
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Hmm I think those are mostly on-point imo.
Freddy's definitely not in an ideal spot rn, I think they should just get rid of his gen slowdown addons (they are not interesting or fun in the slightest), and his dream snares possibly need at least a little bit of restriction. Him spamming them infinitely just does not require any thought.
Spirit... yeah. Phasing needs way more feedback for survivors when in her TR, right now it's just a guessing game rigged in the Spirit's favour. Not fun.
Not convinced PH needs a change, although if I were to make any change it would be making it slightly harder to fake his power. I feel like faking his power gets more use than actually using his power.
Personally I'd give Deathslinger a couple of nerfs, making his TR 32m, and giving him a small ADS time instead of it being literally instant. Possibly with a wind-up noise too like Huntress, again feedback for the survivor is nice.
Don't think Wraith needs a full rework, the invis at range that's he's getting is something he's needed for a long time, and he should have yellow Windstorm by default in his kit. I think he'd be fine then.
Feel free to violently hate my opinions!
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Spirit: disagree, she makes a distinct audio when she uses her power (not saying she's not in need of adjustment but I disagree with the reason given)
Pyramidhead: disagree, you will rarely be put in a situation where its impossible to dodge without perks
Huntress: agree but for like one Addon
Hillbilly: disagree he needs a buff/ adjustments
Blight: agree but needs a FOV adjustments
Wraith: I agree that he needs a buff but he's not close to the weakest killer in the game, he just the killer who relies the most on his Addon ( i think demo currently wears the crown of worst killer)
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If you give Trapper Freddy's Snares and rename them Dream Traps then you'll have a fun killer.
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have you ever played him without addons (how killers are made to be played)? His base kit is way too lacklustre to be viable at really high levels without addons (coming from a Trapper main). Killers shouldn't need addons to be viable.
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Honestly I just dc on midwich now. It is painful to play
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