I think scotts idea for the ds nerf is still the best one
look i get it you're tired of the ds nerf threads but it is a problem for the game going forward and I think Scotts idea is still the best
incase you don't know what I am talking about in his video titled " the small pp survivor build" he suggested a nerf for ds and it
make last 30 seconds BUT if you are in a chase then it pauses and if you do anything to progress the game e.g. fix a generator, unhook, locker or if you heal (just a few examples) then the perk deactivates
if you the player with ds heals another person it will deactivate, you can get healed but that won't do much because you will still need to get chased to keep it up
therefore making a true anti tunnelling build
boom done
it is now a full anti tunnelling perk and it cannot be abused by swf
and before you, survivor mains go into the comments and start saying haha don't tunnel hehe get good and dont tunnel ggez baby killer just stop you are making a fool of yourself and i think that you should play some killer and understand because anyone who plays killer all the time or on some of the time will know how annoying ds and how abusable it is
a common problem I have been hearing with this change is that it is like old legion but one reason why old legion works well to was that he could vault stuff faster but I get what you mean.
that's all I have to say.
I hope you can all think rationally about this and not go ape Sh1t in the comments
thanks for reading this spiel from
The Thicc boi Myers
edit:
the dev live stream has happened a few hours ago and the nerf is that it will deactivate if a survivor
work on a gen
cleanses a totem
unhooks
sabos
healing
so the fact that is change was that far off show how it isn't an absolutely terrible idea
also, anyone who said oh it wasn't designed as an anti-tunnel perk what do you have to say now?
but overall I think the change is quite good it will still be a little annoying with them still being to hop in lockers but at this point, I don't mind and I think we need to look past ds from now and focus on the bigger problems.
from
thicc boi myers
Comments
-
I don't need to play killer more, I have more games on killer than survivor, DS is still fine imo. The only times DS has cost me a game was in a game I was already losing.
7 -
I've always said this sort of thing would be great for DS.
But as the Devs have said, DS is not an anti-tunnel perk.
It's an anti-MOMENTUM perk.
4 -
I get what you mean but it was originally designed as an anti tunnelling perk and everything BHVR says isn't true
cough cough deathsligner not having to deal with looping cough cough
0 -
Well, originally it was designed as a screw-you-killer-for-winning-that-chase perk.
It took the devs years to fix that. What we've got here is a kind of compromise, but when some survivor runs in front of me and hops on a gen or makes an unsafe save and then stabs me for trying to stop them, then it should be apparent to the devs that something is wrong and the perk still needs fixing.
I'd certainly like the perk to be an anti-tunneling perk like the one Scott suggests.
10 -
couldn't agree more.
3 -
That's a terrible idea..Why?
Scenario: Killer hooks survivor -> Killer walks to other side of map -> Survivor gets unhooked & DS timer starts -> Killer immediately runs back to hook -> Timer is already running as it takes said killer 5-10 seconds to get back to hook -> Killer downs survivor & now only has to wait 15-20 seconds until DS runs
The easiest solution is to just make it so you can only use DS if you're the obsession and anytime someone is hooked, that person becomes the new obsession. Additionally; you can create a stipulation that if your DS is active, any action aside from healing/vaulting will make its timer run at x2 the normal speed.
This in turn:
A) Prevents multiple survivors from being able to DS you repeatedly
B) Promotes chasing different survivors
C) Removes any way of abusing it.
0 -
watch out before you get called survivor biased because you said something against killer dogma
i think ds is fine the way it is, people just get mad they can't tunnel as easily as they could
other perks are more problematic, ds is largely a non-issue, particularly because 99% of people who use it don't use it well
people also underestimate the power of slugging. simply because someone is on a hook doesn't mean the end of the world nor is it a bad thing. that's 1 person not doing objectives and then a 2nd who has to come heal them
if they have unbreakable, they only get to use it once, with the exception of soul guard and that perk is so situational it's not worth discussing. i also agree, the times where DS has lost me a game were when I was already going to lose
0 -
So if the killer is on the other side of the map is he really tunnelling?
3 -
good point but it still takes a bit of time to stop chase when looking down and he will have to remain looking down for the entire chase and follow you and down you at the end in order to avoid it but it is also 30 seconds long. so if all of those requirements are met then yes I guess but he will have to catch up so unless you are an experienced franks mixtape launch legion that ain happening chief
0 -
If they immediately come back to the hook the second the unhook notification goes off and proceed to down the same survivor? Yes.
3 -
look I get what you are saying but ds is an issue that needs to be fixed. I don't think any killer underestimates the power of slugging it's just they can't due to a few reasons
- they get called a filthy slugger
- unbreakable is definitely worth discussing due to removing the power to slug and I get what you mean the fact it is only 1 use is a big downside but that is still one more second chance you wouldn't get and the extra speed is quite helpful and when combined with ds (which it is most of the time) it becomes even better
- swfs can just coordinate and get gens done
and don't say that ds is used for tunnelling I have been hit by it many more times by an offensive use than defensive.
I don't think killers care that there is an anti tunnelling perk in the game its the fact that most of the time they are hit by it they weren't tunnelling
but I do agree with you yes some people tunnel but most don't
we all want to have fun and I feel like the perk in its current state is a problem for the health of the game
2 -
ok so if they do run immediately back from the other side of the map to the hook and see the survivors and start a chase on the unhooked person it means a few things
- they went looking for someone else and failed and when someone gets unhooked it is guaranteed that half of the team is at least there
- it takes quite a while to run back from one side of the map so why didn't they move?
- they might be in a bad spot
- the teammate might have fled off leaving just him there
1 -
- and? who cares what people call you? Survivors get called out for having a "small pp build" if they have anything a killer doesn't like and makes them hard to down/kill
- "not worth discussing" was in reference to soul guard, not unbreakable. Yes, an unbreakable can cost you a game, but I don't really see the issue there. Are survivors just meant to stay on the ground because the killer wants them to? When unbreakable is used against me I don't get mad at it, particularly because the lot of people waste it anyway. As the other poster said, if a ds (and similarly, unbreakable) cost me to lose a game then I was losing before it was even in use.
- swfs are gonna do that without ds
It's fine to have your opinions but I heavily disagree that DS is as problematic as people make it out to be. DS is very much a non-issue in terms of it "costing" me games
I don't believe devs have ever said DS is an anti-tunnelling perk, so people bringing that up is a moot point. I also don't see what's wrong with survivors having a trump card either. I play both sides and I don't even like using DS but the way killers play when you don't have an obsession demands me to run it, particularly in solo queue. And sorry I don't want to be put back on hook within <60 seconds of getting off of it. Don't care if you're tunnelling or not.
Likewise I run undying and ruin because I don't want gens to fly, especially in red ranks.
I have plenty of fun playing killer and the things that annoy me playing killer does not include DS. So I can't empathise with you. I think people give DS more power than it actually has and subsequently blow it out of proportion.
2 -
Honestly, just nerfing the timer to 30 seconds would kill the perk. Idk why you're trying to murder it
1 -
The whole thing with that is a survivor will have to stay off gens all together for that time period. I get survivors get cocky but there are players who aren't. players who will not make it obvious they have the perk and play like they don't have it. Why should we punish survivors who aren't toxic about it because of the jerkbags who are?? I honestly do not find DS a problem the way it is atm. This is my opinion as a killer player who has a lot of time played. Yes it can stop your momentum and there a perks that synergize with DS but I play well enough imo that it doesn't matter what perks they have. There are teams that no matter what you do you lose the match and they don't even run DS. The devs also never said the perk was changed specifically to be an anti tunnel perk. Its legit a perk to where it could make or break a killer based one that killers choices and i enjoy the mind game too it
1 -
Ds timer pauses if ure in a chase? Yh no, looking at the ground shouldn't make u ez to tunnel, or also just literally playing wraith for example and chasing someone cloaked
The other idea someone said about that as u get of the hook u turn into the obsession and only the obsession could use ds? Easily abused by camping Bubba (ik ik, u shouldn't really save against camping Bubba, but u get what I mean but that is the only "COUNTER" to that strategy and with this change he would literally have none)
Although I like both ideas, they still have some really ez ways to get abused
1. Cool, then go after the one who unhooked, ez. If u don't find the one who unhooked then that's unfortunate, and I hate when that's the scenario that I'm forced in, and have to "tunnel", even if it isn't what I wanted, I still have in mind that I am tunneling tho, not really because I want the person out of the game, but I am. Also, there's a lot of scenarios where the killer is IN CHASE with someone, and as soon as he hears the notification he goes right back to the unhook, that situation is self explanatory.
2. They could be healing or if they went away then there's probably still scratch marks and it's easy to find the person (especially if there's no iron will), if they didn't run then they r hiding close by, that point makes kinda no sense
3. U mean, the killer having a bad match and needing to tunnel someone? 100% understandable (I'm not even being sarcastic) but still tunneling
4. Similar to a scenario I said in the 1st point, ure "induced" into tunneling by the one who unhooked cause he just hided, ur not tunneling because u want to, but ure still tunneling,even with that change that u said about ds, DS would still see it as tunneling
Also, if the killer is in the other side of the map and comes right back to the hook after the hooked one gets rescued, it could still be tunneling (ofc, in certain scenarios), he wasn't camping, but he can be tunneling still, I think u kinda confused them with one another in other answer, which is normal, camping and tunneling usually come together, but not necessarily
Sorry for the long ass answer :/
1 -
Lol. That would be pretty funny, not gonna lie.
2 -
Your incorrect. If the killer hooked someone and goes to to a gen to find someone else they are not tunneling. If the save is made the killer knows at least 2 people are at the hook. What do you expect the killer to do at that point? There is no one else to chase and they know 2 people are over there. The killer shouldn't give up a chase in the hopes he might find someone else. Your answer is more survivor rule book bs.
2 -
killers can exploit the chase mechanic so im against any idea that influences the timer from chases. remember why legion was complained about.
also it should not deactivate from being healed as insta down killers and stealth killers will let heals happen to bypass the perk. this also discourages the user from recovering which is what the perk should do. (actually i was wrong about this it's worse then can recover then have a full chase and still have ds this is probably equally bad)
the only two changes it needs is it being deactivated when you work on a gen for a few seconds and it should also have it's timer be reduced when all gens get completed. The timer is fine when not in end game and lockers are fine but it being a safety net to progress the game isn't.
2 -
while I agree its a good nerf, I would not limit it to 30 seconds, I would keep it at 60 or even longer, again they are not allowed to do anything other then being healed or healing themselves, otherwise it turns off so it lasting while they dont help progress the game is fine.
Though a big problem with your post is: "therefore making a true anti tunnelling build"
The devs said many times, it isnt an anti tunnel perk, that is just what people claim it is or interpret it is, but it isnt, it wasnt meant to be.
also this is not "scotts" idea, a billion people came up with this.
0 -
So you can abuse it by moonwalking? Idk how hard it is for you people to understand: DS was not meant to be an anti tunneling perk. It's meant to do exactly what it does: don't pickup someone for 60 seconds after they get unhooked. That's all there is to it.
2 -
this is the same idea as making DS deactivate when you hook another survivor and that is a bad idea that is common because people don't understand how easy it is to bypass it.
simply find and down the unhooked after or before you down another survivor this can even be right off the hook then hook the other player and rehook the unhooked. you can also just down a survivor as another is saved and after you hook that survivor your free to tunnel the just unhooked one hell you can do this to saviors trying to hook rush why should the unhooked be punish for that?
there are too many common situations where the perk will deactivate and allow you to tunnel someone just off hook without care.
0 -
Who is Scott.
1 -
I still dont think that DS needs any changes. I am doing just fine, I got hit by one DS today, this must have been something like 55 seconds+ and I hooked another person in between, but this happens once in a while. And I highly doubt that I am the exception.
But IF DS gets any changes, it should be a big middlefinger for tunneling Killers. This is not the case if DS just has its timer paused while in chase, because the Killer can still slug and pick up the Survivor later (which means he still tunneled), or he can look down.
So the Timer would need to be infinite or stopped while running and slugged and deactivated when doing one of the Objectives (Totems, Healing, Gens).
But like I said, I dont have any problem with DS and I play enough Killer to say that without any doubts.
1 -
I disagree with the:
if you do anything to progress the game
part. Its like no one thinks about basement scenarios when they come up with ideas. Or unhooks that occur before another survivor gets hooked.
Wouldn't the 30s timer with pauses be enough? I wouldn't attach it to chases as we learned from Legion.
Even then its just making the killers life easier to slug the survivor and wait half the time. 60s is there to make it unproductive to slug and wait it out.
1 -
I think the better fix is 'infinite duration until you do anything to progress the game.' So you can't game it with chase mechanics, and slugging doesn't affect it.
This seems really strong, but it actually isn't. If the killer slugs you and 'can't pick you up' they still have a lot of momentum from that slug and someone having to get you, and if you just try to 'bait' the DS by never repairing the killer wins because its a survivor 'killed' before even their second hook.
So survivors can 100% know they won't lose their next hook state without doing something like healing someone, starting the unhooking animation, cleansing, repairing, or entering a locker, but killers 100% know that it won't hit them if they leave that survivor alone unless the survivor does so much nonsense DS doesn't gain them time. This allows it to be hard anti-tunnel but also in a way that rewards the killer for excellent play rather than punish them for it.
0 -
So if I jump in a locker to avoid a hit or to attempt a locker juke, I lose DS if the killer finds me? Or if I'm being chased but tap a gen to stop regression I'd also lose DS? What about when the chase is over because they downed me, I only have 30 or less to recover/crawl away?
Yeah bad idea tbh, this would make tunneling a lot easier.
0 -
i'm the same way i think it's interaction with the killer is completely fine.
lockers? you went after them it's an anti tunnel tactic.
DS saves? basically gives you a better chance of getting the DS user and they are without the perk. i would say getting a easy down for an unhook that would have happened anyway is a good trade.
following you? they are legit not doing anything let them it's better than them doing gens by miles.
however i don't think you should be able to do gens off the hook with DS active, nearly all high rank players do this and it is a reason gens get done so fast. if it deactivated when you worked on a gen i think it would be a much more balanced perk since they can only use it to recover or do other things besides the object unless they are willing to be at risk of getting hooked again.
0 -
I like this idea but I'll add this : not working if you're the last survivor or if you take a protect hit, cause it will be abuse unless.
Sfw will dedicate a bodyblocker surv for the whole game and lot of solos will stop playing the game and wait for hatch knowing they have a free pass (will be bad for survivors teamplay).
0 -
It is terrible idea. I guess you have not been around for very long or just very inexperienced in the game
A timer that goes down when I am not in chase - damn I wonder where I have heard this before. And if you still dont know just google the Legion after initial release and why it got nerfed to the ground. It was for the exact same reason. Because literally EVERYONE was abusing the Deep Wounded effect by dropping chase and survivors were dropping left and right on the ground like flies sprayed with raid lol
0 -
Having a dedicated bodyblocker the entire game is a bad plan because your extending chases by one hit or, worse, the killer just taking a few extra seconds to walk around you, in exchange for 'killing' that survivor.
Not being allowed to work on gens, unhook, heal, ect, means that if a survivor wants to 'hold' DS for tactical reasons they are trading an entire survivor, essentially making it at 3v1, for whatever advantage they get. Any killer knows how good it is to be down to a 3v1 in even a 2 gen situation, so I doubt survivors would ever choose to hold DS unless they were very sure the killer was actually tunneling. It might lead to BLUFFS that you were on a gen, but honestly that sounds like good gameplay.
0 -
wow its almost like i mentioned that so no I am not new to the game I have been playing for 3 years now and next time read the whole thing and the comments before commenting yourself
0
