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Why so upset about ds nerf ?
People complain that ds is ,,useless" because they get tunneled every game but now ds is an actual anti tunneling perk and not a 1 minute godmode ...
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It is not an actual anti-tunneling Perk, since you can still get tunneled and just slugged or the timer runs out during the Chase. But it is not useless.
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Because they cannot abuse it anymore, finally.
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I have not seen a single person complaining about it.
Hell I've seen more people complaining about people being upset then actual people being upset.
Kinda puts killers to shame with how they act when a meta perk of them gets changed
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I dunno what survivors you talk to but DS is most certainly not useless. If they say it is, it's because killers seem to get turned on by tunneling then acting all scared of DS (so why tunnel) so they slug for like 2-3 minutes because they dunno how to count to 60 seconds. That's the only reason DS might end up being useless.
I dunno how much survivor killer mains play but if they do and they feel they never get tunneled all that often well, think of how many people are on this game. Those who claim they never get tunneled are not everyone. There are A LOT of people who get tunneled. Just because one killer main doesn't tunnel, doesn't mean no killers tunnel. Etc.
However, the reason why people are mad is because out of all the op killer perks, the only thing really taking a hit is Undying. But bhvr is going after two loved survivor perks (one of which I rarely see used) because killer mains can't handle it. The reason people are mad is because the nerf is also unfair. Killers say it's balanced but if anything, it's able to be abused by killers. I read a forum about the Dev stream and no where in it does it clarify that if someone starts healing me, do I lose DS for that? Or what about moments where I feel safe because I thought the killer was in a chase across the map so I try to work on a generator to be useful but lolnope... the killer was on their way back to be rude to me and because I tried to be useful for all of 5-ish seconds, I lost out on 60 whole seconds of DS. What's the point in having it be a 60 second timer if anything we do will get rid of that within a split second?
If anything it should have been:
-60 second timer.
-Timer goes faster by 4/3/2 % (numbers could be changed) when doing any action.
-As soon as you are in the Healthy state or someone else is hooked, the timer goes away.
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Basically this.
I saw more killers upset about undying nerf (which was well needed) than I have seen survivors upset with the DS nerf (which was also well needed).
Another difference at the time is that I did not see survivors posting this kind of posts either, but I might have missed them.
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Legit go to dbd twitter rn and you'll see people whining everywhere lol survivors are crying all over the place. And don't get me started on metal perks because when they changed undying survivors were making fun of killers
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Survivors were making fun of killers when undying was nerfed? you mean how all these threads asking why survivors are upset even though I haven't seen one legit thread about someone actually being upset? Hm. Killers are looking quite immature this time ngl.
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You two must of miss the multiple threads then..Cause,I have seen a mix of both all day.
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true the abuse is gone, but i think the perk will not be used anymore. They nerfed it hard and in the wrong way imo. A lighter nerf would have been to deactivate it when the gates powered or the hatch opened. Then see how the meta shakes out.
I guess we'll see how abusive the killers get.
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Lol okay i don't have twitter so i would miss those.
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You can still hop in a locker with it.
I think we need to wait until the PTB to see if it needs a little buff to go with the nerf. Too many open-ended possibilities.
Does the timer turn off if you get healed while slugged? Does the timer go off when someone else is hooked? ect ect
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Wrong way? From what I can tell, you want to be able to hop on a gen in front of the killer and still have ds. If people really stop using the perk because you can't be invincible for 60 seconds anymore shows that survivors rely on busted perks to win
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I actually wouldn´t mind, if they take the 60 seconds timer completely away. After all, a good looper can prevent the killer from downing him for more than a minute. So why not make it a complete anti tunnel perk. But there would have to be a sideeffect of deactivating it during the EGC. Otherwise it would still be a guaranteed escape.
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If survivor is good enough to run more than minute, why would he complain about tunneling? He performing his distracting role, so he should be happy that killer chasing him so long. So in that case ds wouldn't be antitunneling perk, it would be free out of jail card.
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I don't care about the deactivation conditions, what I do care about is that the changes are strictly from the perspective of improving the experience for the killer. DS is not the effective anti tunnel perk people make it out to be. You have to be picked up within 60 seconds, so I guess if your tunnel exceeds 60 seconds then it's not tunneling anymore. If you go down within 60 seconds and the killer slugs you, if he picks you up at the 61 second mark then I guess that's not tunneling. so according to the devs, tunneling can only happen one time, and it all has to happen within 60 seconds of being rescued and they have to pick you up because outside of these perimeters it's not tunneling?
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Only if the killer would well... tunnel.
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It isn't an anti tunnel perk. If a killer really wants to they will wait out the DS timer or frankly if you do good enough at chase the killer will be chasing you still after it ran out. It also only activates once and has a chance of being missed.
Now add onto that the unhook change despite all the whining is going to make camping much easier. Maybe its just me but at red ranks I encounter more people will will camp than I do people that hide behind their DS to unhook. Also more people who will whine about DS That never activated/wasn't used aggressively as a reason for losing.
So yeah, 90% good. 10% they didn't consider that it is basically a counter to camping a hook either to camp someone to death or to beg for trades.
The locker ds isn't the worst thing ever. I don't mind that. Countering totems, gens, sabotages and healing a health state I like.
Honestly it would've made more sense to make it deactivate sooner if the killer has NOT chased the survivor for say 30s. Sometimes you can chase someone and hook them, walk across the whole map back and still get hit with ds.
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So if killer tunnel a good looper more than a minute, it wouldn't be well... nessesary to have anti-tunneling perk.
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I think if you start getting chased the timer should pause and can't unpause until the chase is either over (and you won the chase) or you get healed from a slug.
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He is still tunneling. I know, sometimes it feels good to drop everything and get that one guy. But it would still be tunneling. Doesn´t matter if he runs the killer for 1 minute or 5.
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Slugging is not tunneling. 60s is enough time to get you picked up. So it is anti tunneling perk. It prevents killer from immediately put you on the hook again
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Slugging can be part of tunneling. If you get unhooked and downed right after because the killer ignored everyone else and still went for you, you got tunneled.
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go on DBDs twitter page and look at the comments below the Q&A. There you will change your mind :)
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Exactly. Sure it would need to be deactivated in Endgame (probably even after the fifth Gen is done, not just EGC), but this would be an actual anti-tunnel Perk. And I dont see anything wrong with tunneling in the Endgame (same for camping), thats basically the last straw that the Killer can grasp at this point to get at least this Kill.
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What nerf
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Here's some examples:
There are more but I can't be bothered to find all of them.
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I mean you're not wrong, but in terms of actual anti tunneling nothing really has changed to the perk. It's still going to be just as efficient as before when it comes to countering tunneling so the arguement of "this change is going to make tunneling stronger" is just silly.
I agree it'd be great if they buffed it after this change goes life and it actually stops the timer while in chase, but the timer would only last 30 seconds or so. The amount of times I was able to run the killer around for more than 60 seconds, but DS didn't punish the fact they tunneled and immediately went after me is kinda heartbreaking.
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Or after all gens are completed, yes. Removing the timer would also solve the slugging issue.
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tunneling is picking up survivor in order to hook him. Chasing and slugging is just applying pressure. Why won't you hit injured survivor and down him if you have opportunity? What if you're the only survivor killer found? do you think he should let you go? And then survivors like that are screeching TUNNELER in post game chat. They just don't know what tunneling is or never played killer in first place
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i used to run ds on my survivor build but now i never used it anymore since its useless. only 1 or 2 times in 10 matches. usually killer will camp around hooks and down you and start slugging while patrolling near you. so basically useless perk.
IMHO i think if killer start slugging you. you could got full health instead of doing nothing this will feel fair and keep killer for downing you after you're unhooked
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Those complaints make the game look like p2w. Like, i payed for the dlc, so i deserve that this perk stays like it is.
*rolls eyes*
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Gives me "I want to speak to the manager" vibes
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Don’t unhook in front of the killer then? Why should they give up free pressure when you hand it to them on a silver platter?
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Why are you assuming I unhooked in front of the killer?
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Tunneling is focusing on one survivor, doesn't mean you cant do anything else. If you're chasing an already injured survivor, stop chasing them because you saw me get unhooked and go for me again, even though you were already chasing someone injured, that's tunneling.. You seem to be the one "screeching" and being ignorant about what tunneling is.
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You said “If you get unhooked and downed right after because the killer ignored everyone else and still went for you, you got tunneled.” killer ignored everyone else and still went for you, you got tunneled.” So unless you and the unhooker ran away to do something else you either unhooked infront of the killer or healed under hook. Which is going to come with risks.
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Or you know, you tried to get away from the hook and the killer still saw your scratch marks because they stay there for a while?
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This once again brings me back t my previous point you are the one they saw. They know your injured saw and saw where they went. Why would they give up free pressure?
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Well, because undying is yet again a bandaid that's nerfed IMMEDIATELY while DS has been OP since it's inception. Even "nerfs" made it better. Killer perks and mechanics get nerfed almost immediately is the point.
Plus, totem spawns are still terrible overall.
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Totem spawns have gotten way better on recent maps (hawkins, saloon, midwich).
Also map reworks have gotten better totem spawns as well.
DS used to be way strong, you didn't need to get hooked to be able to use it).
Undying was unhealthy for the game and so was DS.
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But my point here is the ANGER comes from undying being nerfed almost IMMEDIATELY and DS STILL BEING OP AFTER THE "NERFS".
Let's just use Killers for example. Every "nerfed" killer was changed DRAMATICALLY as of late. Billy, Nurse, soon to be Freddy have been BURIED compared to what they were.
DS took 4 years for a PROPER adjustment. It's not fair that I can be DS despite hooking 2 other survivors etc. Totems have been trash since the game was released. It's just NOW getting better. See where I'm going here?
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agreed.
if i were to change something on the new DS, i'd add a paragraph that says that the timer will stop when in the dying state.
that'd be a fair trade off imo.
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I have a problem with the change because it perpetuates the Behaviour classic of putting solutions to the game's problems in the form of perks. It's less problematic when the characters who have said perks are free e.g. Bill having BT which kind of counters Camping and tunnelling. However it starts to become a serious problem when the characters housing said perks are DLC. While the non-licensed DLC characters are technically "free" they still require a massive time sink to buy with shards because the game is far from generous when it comes to shards. It's particularly egregious with licensed characters because you have no choice but to cough up some cash or just pray to RNGesus that the perk you want will be in the shrine. DS, as you know, is one of Laurie's perks. So if I'm coughing up money then I'm expecting a quality product. DS as it currently is undeniably too strong, but I think it needed a complete rework and not just gutting it. When it gets changed it will be purely anti-tunnel which means it'll do nothing else. If you don't get tunnelled it does nothing. Current DS is inarguably too oppressive but at least it allows the user to get semi-consistent use out of it if you played aggressively. Once the change comes, unless you're a really unlucky person, DS will do nothing in probably half your games. Perhaps even more than half. I think Behaviour are making a mistake in just nerfing it, they need to rework it entirely and add some sort of base-kit anti-tunnelling effect. Even if the base anti-tunnelling effect was super weak and only helped against tunnelling half the time it would still be better than running a DLC perk from a licensed character which will often be useless. In summary, I think this proposed change by Behaviour is problematic because it will make a strong DLC perk, much much weaker. This as a result, would leave many feeling cheated out of their money as the perk would be a shell of it's former self, especially since this is purely a nerf, not a rework. There is no big nerf with a tiny little buff to soften the blow. It just does the one thing now and said thing it's designed to counter doesn't happen as much as some might let on. (This is giving me some old mettle of man vibes, though I doubt the nerf to DS will be as bad as the nerf to mettle of man lol). Anyways, thanks for reading and I hope you have a nice day.
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We were upset because this metta perk was alive for 6 months and DS was unchanged for 2 or 3 years
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allow me to present to you, a revelation
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Devs: We're going to nerf decisive to take away it's offensive power
Community: stays silent
Devs: We're still looking into nerfing decisive
Community: stays silent
Devs: shows us the Decisive change
Community: YOU CAN'T NERF DECISIVE! IT WILL MAKE THE PERK USELESS!
Kinda too late to be complaining ppl. Right?
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My point is you shouldn't be upset about being tunneled if you wasted more than a minute of killer's time.
People hate being tunneled because they get downed in 10 seconds right after unhook. It's ######### annoying because both killer and teammate drove you into that helpless situation. But if you run 60 seconds after unhook, you win. Killer lose a minute bacause he deside to tunnel you. And on top of that you want to punish him even more and run another minute. I think is not really fair to killer even if he tunneler.
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Just like the Ruin and Undying changes. Both changes were made to improve the survivor's gameplay experience. Old Ruin was changed due to the skill checks being "too hard" for new players. Undying is being changed due to the chance of Ruin jumping to 3 more totems. Which is not a fun experience for survivors. Why is the DS change an issue because it improves the killer experience?
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not the same. Of course the game is occasionally going to employ changes that improve the experience for one role or both. In the case of ruin, their design philosophy went beyond improving the experience for new players which is an important metric. They were also concerned with the inconsistency of the perk. They wanted to create a more uniform experience. Likewise with Undying, it was never their intention that powerful hex perks would relocate multiple times. They pointed out that it fundamentally changed the game experience to where the focus had to be exclusively on hunting down the totems repeatedly and that was never part of their design goals. My point isn't that DS should never be changed to improve the experience for killers, it's just that these changes are exclusively for the benefit of the killer. there are no improvements from the survivor side of the experience. DS is a remedial perk, according to developers. It's to provide some degree of relief towards being tunneled but of course had some broader uses outside of it. That was a problem and I agree with changes that bring the perk In line with accomplishing its stated goals. The proposed changes are strictly for the benefit of the killer, nothing wrong with that but I think there needs to be some evaluation and balance on the survivor side of the experience as well.
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They are the same. Most killer mains didn't wanted Ruin changed, and they don't want Undying changed. I can say the same. No killer perk should ever be changed to make the survivors experience better, but that doesn't change the fact that multiple killer perks have been changed due to the survivors experience. The Ruin change and Undying, even Enduring no longer helping with DS stun were changes made because of the survivor experience.
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