DS Nerf makes Basement a deathtrap?
Expect to see an increase in BT users because another downside that no one is realizing.. This essentially means that if a killer has 2 people hooked in the basement it's now a death trap for them.
Survivor A goes down into the basement for the save but gets hit before unhooking; Survivor A saves Survivor B but then gets downed. Survivor B attempts to unhook Survivor C and then gets downed. Now Survivor B doesn't have DS anymore.
Now you might say "Leave them and run out.. heal and come back".. But the cycle will just repeat itself if you even get a chance to come back; barring the death timer or if you can even make it out without being downed again.
Comments
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You're not wrong there but I feel like it would require more strategic plays, rather than just rushing down the unhook
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Well actually I would say leave and comeback. You realize that if you were survivor b and did try to run instead of unhooking and the killer still chased you as long as you don't do any obj. You will still be able to use do. I dont know why you guys are so persistent on thinking you should be able to do all these ridiculous plays in front of the killer just because you have ds. It would not be the killers fault if you go for a save anyway right in his face especially in the basement. Why should any killer get punished for that
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I'm sorry but if the killer manages to get 2 survivors in the basement then that's on your teammates.
Mistakes should be punished.
Like,why should you just be able to rush the basement saves that easily?
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It happens more often than you think; even if you aren't near the basement a killer could have iron grasp/agitation to get you down there.
While this is true; depending on the hook timer of Survivor C you might not have time to run out and heal. And if the killer does down you again; they can simply just slug you and wait for the 4th survivor.
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<laughs> If the Killer has two people hooked in the basement at the same time NOW it is already a deathtrap. Borrowed Time should already be the "go to" for safe rescues in a desperate situation like that. Decisive Strike was never going to be awesome in the situation you describe because Killers that know even the most basic things about the game are going to slug the one unhooked (it will take them forever to crawl out of the basement anyway) and down the would-be rescuer who will not yet have DS active. Most Killers simply slug someone they suspect of having DS anyway. If you are in a basement, they have the luxury of waiting to see if you pop back up on your own using Unbreakable, or until another would-be Survivor comes down the stairs.
In short, your argument holds no water. DS was never an ideal anti-basement Perk in the first place. The best way to avoid getting everyone killed in the basement is not to get hooked there in the first place, and if you must rescue someone there make sure it is a SAFE rescue. A trick that I've used many times is:
- Take Borrowed Time.
- Take the Add-on: Styptic Agent
- If making a basement run (or a rescue against a Face Camper) be sure you are injured so you can use your MedKit. Hit yourself with the Styptic Agent right before running to the hook. Both you and the person you rescue will have the effects of BT and can likely get a running start. It is remarkably effective and tends to confuse the crud out of the Killer.
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You said it yourself and so did someone else in this thread. Borrowed time still exist. It has always been a good perk and will still continue to be a good perk. You can make good plays with so many other perks in this game and still escape without ever using ds anyways. I mean its not the best perk in the world but your pfp is deliverance. Plus i highly doubt the killer is bringing you to the basement in every game you play
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I mean that's fair it was your decision to save your teammate from the basement if you had a decision I'm not sure if you were being tunneled I've never had an issue with bt because if your going to run into my face I will wait 15s to smack you down again
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Good, too many people unhooking in bad spots without BT as it is, we need more of them.
Also if a killer gets 2 survivors in the basement of course that should be punishing; you should actively be trying not to let that ever happen in the first place.
Lastly and more to the main point, if the person with DS doesn't try and unhook and instead runs out of the basement; the killer now can only do one of two things, pick up the other person or chase after you and you can run them far enough away from the basement, especially if you hop in a locker and they fall for it or have a good tile to run them to gain some distance.
In that time, another teammate should, if they are smart, save them immediately and take a hit to help get them out; both if you have time depending on what killer it is. Let's assume they have DS as well, so now the killer cannot down or hook anyone except the survivor that went for those 2 rescues without getting stunned- and the basement lockdown is now broken outside of large survivor mistakes. That other survivor would ideally be full health and if those people had BT then they have a shield and a health state to get them out of there, that should be the end of it.
Should they pick up the other person two people can recover; and one with DS and BT can unhook one, get downed, now crawl out of the basement or get picked up and DS, get the other guy off and trade places as he gets out with BT. This may be a one death scenario; but three people with meta perks healing somewhere else should be able to come break the basement lockdown now.
It's a bad spot to get in that bad plays/positioning lead to; and the way out of it is to play it very smart and have everyone be on point. If you make bad plays, and then make bad plays trying to fix it....you should all lose that game; that's 100% deserved.
"But that uses too many meta perks!" I mean it uses the proposed DS and BT a lot....so you basically admit that it would still be a meta perk then in saying that.
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So what?
It's still your teams fault getting 2 of you down there.
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Lol.. feeling the entitled killer mains making every excuse in the book to justify it. You guys complain about meta perks when you literally force survivors to run them constantly. Calling it now; once this goes live within a month you'll all be begging for a Borrowed Time nerf.
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Dude,one survivor ending up in the basement is alright but 2 is a HUGE mistake on your teams parts.
It feels as dumb as saying the killer shouldn't lose a game even if he decides to tunnel one survivor the whole game.
1 mistake can cost you the game,that's how DBD always has been
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It would require much more skill to sneak in and rescue them successfully. BT would help as well. I feel like the killer should be rewarded for hooking more than one person in the basement since it is unique and very useful if you need to make a comeback.
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I'm so sick of people making these idiotic "us versus them" argument. For the record, most people who play Killer also play Survivor. Your attempt to deflect arguments (rather than answer them) by attacking the speakers simply means you already LOST the argument. In addition, nobody forces anyone to run anything. I play Solo Survivor and I don't run DS; I've never found the need. You make choices; nobody makes them for you.
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I mean that’s the point of the basement. It’s supposed to be a death trap.
Survivors are supposed to be aware of its location as early as possible and either repair as far away from it as possible, or get the killer distracted and repair any gens near or above it at the risk of potentially ending up on a basement hook if caught
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There won't be an increase in BT users, BT users are already extremely common.
Basement has always been a death trap. If the killer has 2 people hooked in the basement he has already basically won. Even if he isn't using Monstrous Shrine!
Nothing new here.
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The basement is already a deathtrap and you explained how the nerf will basically make you lose invincibility and make you actually run from the killer so.....
Also yeah im sure more people will run BT, the most common perk in the game.
I think its really telling of the community that DS is being buffed to improve smooth brains chances of escaping and none of them can even fathom how
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i really did not thought about that.
im a killer main now LMAO. F survivor side its stressful with all the potaoes in your team anyways.
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It doesn't take any skill for a leatherface is stand in the basement and just secure half of his objective. In the case of DS, something that is supposed to be a "perk" is lost when trying to help the team because unhooking someone loses the perk.
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Use bt, wait till the killer leaves afterall if he camps he loses if you actually do gens. If you're slugged in basement crawl out, better to risk taking a second hook on a normal hook than recovering and encouraging your team into an unsafe area. Theres 4 people so just play smart and basement isn't an issue, the basement is meant to be a strong stop for killer regardless
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Ahem, first your math is off. Leatherface doesn't START with two in the basement. At best, he gets one in the basement first. This means he can then be a Squatter (how I refer to face campers to differentiate them) and secure, at best, 1/4 of this objective. For him to get the second person in the basement, he must either get someone making a rescue attempt, or go forth and hunt. Your argument, that it takes no skill to get to where Leatherface has two in the basement is incorrect on arrival.
To be fair, it doesn't take ANY skill (just commonsense) for the other three Survivors to simply do their Objectives and let the basement squatter sit there with 1/4 of this objective while they knock out all that remains of the generators and escape. Remember, 3+ escapes is considered (generally) as a win for the Survivors. Two escapes is considered a draw, so even if we did get to your odd situation where two are now in the basement and the other two simply finish 100% of the Survivor objectives and leave, Leatherface is a sad panda.
All of that being said and done, it isn't impossible to make the saves in the basement. Is it easy? No. Can it be done? Yes; I've done it many times myself. I'm crazy that way. I just think it is misleading to jump to the position where two are in the basement and then pretend no skill was used to arrive at that point, or go forward. I don't care WHAT Killer you are playing, if you have two in the basement at the same time, that is your game. If you lose it, that is on you. And EVERY damn Killer should camp that basement to a degree if they have half the Survivors down there. Face camping (Squatting) would be counter productive, but they sure as hell should be doing only short range patrols so they can pick up the third Survivor doing a suicide run.
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Leatherface won't be able to camp the basement and protect the gens unless Survivors willingly give him a second camp target in the basement. Just power through the gens, and that's a pretty easy 3-man escape.
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Leaving aside the fact that this dynamic potentially exists with or without the DS nerf -- as not everyone brings DS to begin with -- you just answered your own question by pointing out that BT exists. Also, the basement is supposed to be a risky place. You're arguing an edge case over whether it's fair that the risk factor is removed, and I would say that the answer is no, that defeats the design purpose of the basement.
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Are we sure it's the attempt at an unhook that deactivates DS? I assumed that it was successful unhooks that deactivated it
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You mean these super exploitable BT into DS into BT into DS into BT into DS into BT into DS and Unbreakable? Yea no that was busted af. And and its highest not very fair or for some killer not even winnable. And the thing is, the community, the people who are playing this perk always called it a "anti tunnel perk". If you have time to heal or do gens. I'm not very sure and correct me if I am wrong. But if you have time for this, you're not getting actually tunneled, right? So if the Killer is still on you after you got unhooked, nothing has changed.
The abusable part of it got changed. It still has its passive effect. It still works the same. BUT if you can sit on gens, there is NO reason to protect you anymore.
Same as BT. It's there for you so you can leave a basement and find sth you can work with (pallets/windows) and once you got so far it shouldnt be active anymore. Because people love to abuse invincibility. When BT got released people spammed the hell out of it. The farming was real. So they made it more risky and you have to use it at the right time.
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If any more than one person ends up there, it is really their fault for not taking the hints. Survivors should always be aware of a camping bubba in the basement. At most, he should only get one kill. This is just part of core game design, DS was just a band-aid fix.
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Heard of Wrecker's yard ? The basement is in the middle of the map. The killer can get anyone there from a very big portion of the map. WIth the 2 basement perks probably from any spot on that map. With the same 2 basement perks a killer can bring a surivor to the basement from quite far on many maps where the basement can spawn in a building that is usually in the middle and there are MANY such maps.
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Just about.
Nobody seems to think about scenarios like this.
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*Puts team in a losing position
*loses
and thats why survivors need their op meta perk to stay op
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Yeah,but keep in mind the killer invests 2 whole perk slots to take advantage of the basement.
If the killer plans on camping the basement then just focus on gens and don't play into their hands
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It is true. Maybe DS shouldn't turn off for altruistic actions (like healing a dying survivor, unhooking...), and/or maybe the basement is way too punishing for all survivors (especially with some killers and some "strategies") and deserves to be changed.
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"If the killer has two people hooked in basemenet and is defending it and catches you unhooking, what are you supposed to do?"
You are supposed to lose.
I say this sincerely, not in a 'git good' sense, but a 'core gameplay interaction' sense.
The idea that survivors 'need' a way to get cheeky in your face hook rescues from basement is framed as a 'well if I don't have this how am I going to play in this situation' manner, but its really describing the core problem with DS: it allowed survivors to power through loss conditions they had no right to power through.
Basement is MEANT to be dangerous. Killers hooking two survivors close together is MEANT to be game endingly powerful without BT. If you do ANYTHING in front of the killer without concern for their ability to reach you, you are MEANT to lose.
So if you get into the situation OP is describing? It meant not only do you 'deserve' to lose. It means the only fair possible outcome is you losing. You HAVE to lose, for the game to make sense.
The killer's entire mechanical interaction with the survivors is 'Can't be directly opposed, but can't be everywhere at once.' If the survivors ever have tools that allow them to progress the game 'in their face' the game is broken, because the only function of the killer is to block progression locally.
That means that if you get basement hooked in a bad spot? GG. Sometimes your SUPPOSED to die on first hook. It HAPPENS. Its a possibility for a reason! Because sometimes you make such a big mistake you lose your other 'lives.' You made a series of mistakes to allow that to happen that NEED to end the game for you. If you didn't loop by the basement, or sit near a gen there, or run there when it was a deadzone, you wouldn't be down there. If you had more gen pressure the killer couldn't safely defend it. So its on you.
NO TOOL should exist to do what OP wants to do. And the ENTIRE PURPOSE of the DS rework is to punish survivors who do dumb ######### like unhook in the killer's face just because they have DS. If your unhooking in basement? Your not getting tunneled, your doing an objective instead of choosing to run and reset yourself to 'neutral' and the killer MUST be allowed to stop you.
The purpose of DS is to allow you time to reset yourself to neutral (Uninjured, in an area the killer doesn't know where you are) after at least one unhook, or to give the killer a big time and effort penalty for failing to let that happen, NOT to allow you to turn the game around.
Saying "DS now no longer lets me unhook in the killer's face in the basement after getting hooked myself by someone sloppily rescuing me in their face" is akin to saying "Power Struggle doesn't let me get out after being the last survivor in a deadzone with no pre-built wiggle time or hook spreading offerings during the end game collapse when the hatch is closed." Like... yeah, sure doesn't. Good. Your in a loss condition, you don't always have the right to get back into the game, that is why its called a 'loss condition' and not a 'whatever condition.'
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I must have missed the survivor nerf where you are unable to rescue someone in the basement while the killer chases your other teammate.
Basement is in the middle of the map, survivor being chased runs one way, you walk in from the other direction and get the unhook. Not rocket science.
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"The killer's entire mechanical interaction with the survivors is 'Can't be directly opposed, but can't be everywhere at once." See here is where you are dead wrong. Hag can be everywhere easly esp if the basement is in play. Billy can be everywhere in less than 5 seconds. Demo can be everywhere by using his trap/teleport - the easiest teleport to the basement ever. Freddy can be everywhere since gens are all over the map and he can teleport to them. The new killer - do I even have to tell you ? The moment she gets someone in the basement killers usually leave her there for all eternity while Victor goes on a hunt. What you descried there was the game ages ago. It seems people dont realise that everything in this game has changed massively. The devs have nerfed most of the maps /only few left/ and game is way easier on the killer side with less pallets, less loops, smaller maps, way darker which helps a lot of them and the games in general are way way shorter. So the basement will have to be adjusted eventually to the new reality that is the game today.
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Basement with 2 hooks should be extremely dangerous. Survivors need to make several grave mistakes in a roll to make it happen. It is not up to the killers for it to happen.
Right now you can trade 1 survivor for 2 in basement without any skill involved is ridiculous. This is absolutely unfair, and It shouldn’t be even possible in the first place.
So this DS change makes it more fair, and that’s good.
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Which way is the way to run you have to tell me or better show me . I got to see that passage of glory where survivors are supposed to run which does not leave ANY way of the killer to just you know.... RUN BACK the moment he gets notified by the amazing new UI that gives you all info u need or just by seeing you going in which is not hard on that map or even better just by proxy camping it which is the best. Eventually you will have to unhook that person and oh what a surprise the killer will be just in time there from when u hit the stairs ! Now ofc that does not inlude killers like Hag, Trapper, Billy, Demo, Twins. These killers will be there before u even manage to make a step there if you can make one since Hag or Trapper for example willt trap everything so you are never gettting in or out
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Wrecker's Yard is one of those stupid maps I have wondered why BHVR hasn't reworked it yet. It seriously needs to be bigger. It's a horrible map for survivors. If the killer actually using a Basement build with Agitation and Iron Grasp lol every down is going to end up in the basement.
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If the Survivor B gets downed by the Killer because he wanted the rescue, that's his fault. Like everyone here is saying, basement is a dangerous place and having 2 people there should be very punishing for others Survivors come to the rescue.
If we really want to follow the purpose of the DS as a "ant tunneling perk", you unhooking someone in the Killer's face can't considered tunneling, I mean you forced HIM to down you, he had no other choice, and you deserve to lose your DS and be punished.
It's a perk that is not going to be the "60 seconds of invulnerability" anymore, everyone just has the bad habit of thinking about the perk in this way, ignoring the main purpose of it(which is to avoid being chased by the Killer after getting out of the hook and giving a extra chance for the owner to escape, and not to make greedy and dumb saves in front of the Killer...).
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Borrowed time is an unhooking perk. A powerful one. If you are using your DS as a bait for unhooking... then you rightfully lose it.
What is wrong with that exactly? Go do a gen. Go heal. Go down anything else because you are not being tunneled. And if you decide to go unhook, then you have agreed with the game that you don't need the perk active anymore.
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When Borrowed Time was first implemented, it was a one time use perk.
How exactly is someone spamming a one time use perk?
Forehead.
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why? Borow time is fine, i never heard of a killer complaining BT wich btw is used every match and people only complain about DS not about BT, bt is only a real problem when the gates are open and the door is connsiderably close, same as DS but DS is a problem all the time BT is way more managable.
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If you get the basement hook expect a death scene.
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Hopefully the Devs will just add a second exit to the basement so it can't be used for free facecamping.
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so you wanna tell me saving 2 people from the basement is not so easy now? Question is why should it be easy to save two people from the basement?
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lol I just hook suicide and so does the other guy often when I'm hooked in the basement with somebody already up there, that's a couple minutes that could have been into another queue instead ofa likely lost cause lol
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"Then you will know that there is no escape. When hanging in the depths, you face the dark one."
The Basement is supposed to be a death trap. In my opinion, it is meant to be a very scary location, rewarding for killers and dangerous for survivors.
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