Unpopular Opinion: NOED should be baseline
15-20 games played today, 100% NOED.
After it's ridiculously unneeded buff to cause EXPOSED on every tier, when should we expect to just become baseline for every killer? Just like Self Care, almost any killer worth their salt knows that there is ZERO reason NOT to take NOED now, especially since some genius made it so that you only need tier 1 to receive the only benefit this perk is ever used for in the first place (honestly, no one acknowledges or even knows there's a speed boost).
Flame responses in 3.... 2.... 1....
Comments
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It has easy counterplay. Literally cleanse 5 totems and if you can't find them run small game.17
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The point of making all tiers apply exposed is for consistency. The exposed status is the main reason to use the perk. While the extra speed is nice and all, most people would never touch it for the speed alone (you'd be taking up a perk slot for a speed increase if the totems aren't cleansed only once the generators are powered, at which point the survivor could easily take a hit and make a beeline to an open gate). Other perks got the same treatment in that update, making them more consistent across their tiers (rather than behaving wildly differently at lower tiers).
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I rarely use noed2
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I think NOED is a trash perk and as poorly designed as DS, but if 100% of the last 20 games had NOED then don't you think it would be a good idea to start cleansing totems???18
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Haven't ran into NOED much myself.
It'll probably go back to normal once the event is done, and it's starting to feel that way from all the untapped flowers I run into.2 -
Every single damn game. I’m getting tired of NOED. I hate it as much as I hate DS on Survivors. I always cleanse 2-3 totems per match and one is always taken by Ruin. Though because there is JUST ONE I missed, everything goes to #########. NOED needs to have another restriction applied to it for its activation.
The one I purpose is you need to have at least gotten 4 hooks in the match. This would just ensure that some Killer who is AWFUL and played so bad, he couldn’t even get that many hooks doesn’t just mop up with NOED. This would also ensure he doesn’t just camp and tunnel out one dude and still get NOED.16 -
NOED should have the speed boost removed. One shotting, not being punished for whiffing and having BL1 base is just silly.
Lots of bad killers have just been getting 1 hook and hard camping. This forces survivors to slam gens. The killer then gets a 2nd down with NOED. Really lame stuff.
Inb4 "just break the totems"
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@SovererignKing said:
Every single damn game. I’m getting tired of NOED. I hate it as much as I hate DS on Survivors. I always cleanse 2-3 totems per match and one is always taken by Ruin. Though because there is JUST ONE I missed, everything goes to #########. NOED needs to have another restriction applied to it for its activation.The one I purpose is you need to have at least gotten 4 hooks in the match. This would just ensure that some Killer who is AWFUL and played so bad, he couldn’t even get that many hooks doesn’t just mop up with NOED. This would also ensure he doesn’t just camp and tunnel out one dude and still get NOED.
That's actually a good idea and you could tweak it so that if someone say dc's/crashes it take 1 less hook or 1 per survivor in the round.
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And then he gets depippedMight_Oakk said:NOED should have the speed boost removed. One shotting, not being punished for whiffing and having BL1 base is just silly.
Lots of bad killers have just been getting 1 hook and hard camping. This forces survivors to slam gens. The killer then gets a 2nd down with NOED. Really lame stuff.
Inb4 "just break the totems"
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@Peanits said:
The point of making all tiers apply exposed is for consistency. The exposed status is the main reason to use the perk. While the extra speed is nice and all, most people would never touch it for the speed alone (you'd be taking up a perk slot for a speed increase if the totems aren't cleansed only once the generators are powered, at which point the survivor could easily take a hit and make a beeline to an open gate). Other perks got the same treatment in that update, making them more consistent across their tiers (rather than behaving wildly differently at lower tiers).Do you know if Devour Hope is going to get a similar consistency? Personally, I would remove the Exposed effect from Devour Hope completely (because at Tier 2 and 3, survivors know you have it before you get enough tokens for the mori). We already have 2 other hexes that cause the Exposed status effect. I would have the speed boost at all tiers and not related to tokens at all, and the difference between tiers would be how many tokens are needed to unlock the mori (for instance, 6/5/4 tokens).
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Some killers it is amazing, especially if running a 3 gen strategy...And you can hook each person just 1-2 times, leaving that last hook for noed.
Other killers I don't use it...too many other worthwhile perks.1 -
Also, in the above strategy, it discouraged camping. I try to down and hook each survivor several times, not caring they get unhooked because I can usually slug and hook at least one or 2 when NOED clicks.
Then again, I have hooked, camped and insta downed 2-3 more after NOED hits when I was getting tbagged all match. And then I was the one called toxic lol after match.
So it has its place.2 -
It has a counter. Use it. If you don't use it, you have no business complaining about it.
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Let's see other perks that give the same bonus on every level.
Self Care, Decisive Strike, Sprint Burst, Lithe, Adrenaline, Dead Hard.
No complains about them, huh?
Maybe we should nerf them all, so only level 3 gives the full bonus.13 -
Noed is just like every killer perk -it's up to the survivors to screw up and die because of it.8
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@Tsulan said:
Let's see other perks that give the same bonus on every level.
Self Care, Decisive Strike, Sprint Burst, Lithe, Adrenaline, Dead Hard.
No complains about them, huh?
Maybe we should nerf them all, so only level 3 gives the full bonus.Actually killers complain about those perks as you're well aware of on these very forums no less. I just had a Pig complain about Deliverance since I got it to work and not bug out and kobe'd with RBT ticking madly. Nod proc'd because i couldn't get to it in time since i was too busy healing and unhooking.
I kobe'd the hook and ran one way then skulled off another way and got to hatch and got told of course deliverance how broken. I wanted to tell them they could prevent it by hooking em just the same as we can prevent Noed by cleansing totems.
She was so focused on protecting her ruin totem for so long she never chased me to get a 2nd hit in.
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I don't really understand why people think NOED is that fantastic. I run it from time to time but not really that often. It's an end-game perk and if you actually reach the end-game it's fantastic, but remember that up until then the perk is 100% worthless. I mostly prefer to select perks that help me the entire game to actually prevent the game from reaching that stage.
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Personally, I wouldn’t mind NOED being baseline. The end game is strongly in favor of the Survivors. Because Survivors get a speed boost after being hit while the Killer is basically stunned, you have little means to stop survivors once the gates are open. NOED somewhat levels the playing field, giving both parties a fair shot.5
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Both NOED and DS should be replaced with somewhat decent perks while not being too OP, both are trash and reward poor play/toxicity
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@SIX said:
Both NOED and DS should be replaced with somewhat decent perks while not being too OP, both are trash and reward poor play/toxicityExcept both reward poor play on the Survivor side. DS for being caught, NOED for not breaking totems. The only difference is that one benefits Survivors, and the other benefits Killers. In other words, Survivors are the cause of their problems.
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@Sythalin said:
15-20 games played today, 100% NOED.After it's ridiculously unneeded buff to cause EXPOSED on every tier, when should we expect to just become baseline for every killer?
Actually I doubt it, but I would be glad if they made it baseline. The fact is NOED is a dramatic perk which add to the suspense of the game by hard pressuring the survivors right before their exit. It add a simple question to the end game : "who will be brave enough to not flee for their life and, find that godamn totem ?" This switch of tempo right before the end, is fun and exactly what should be expected from an horror game.
But why do survivor don't like NOED, are they not up for the extra challenge and surprise ? Of course they are, but here's the thing ... they LOVE to stick around when the gates are powered. They hidde in bushes and farm every tiny bit of bloodpoint they can, and of course this has been so easy for them, that they usually don't feel the URGE to escape at all !
Those survivor trolls, are always looking for the hatch instead of exiting through already wide open gates, and eventually they take it for granted. So of course, when people are tired that survivors get to jerk around instead of moving on to another game, they play NOED to extra pressure them and eventually teach them a lesson. But do they learn ?
HELL NO THEY DON'T ! Instead they insult the killer in the after game lobby and go straight to this forum to complain about the very existence of this perk. So all I have to say to them is:
"Stop bitching and do yourself a favor: leave the f***ing game when the gates are powered !"6 -
@Utna said:
@Sythalin said:
15-20 games played today, 100% NOED.After it's ridiculously unneeded buff to cause EXPOSED on every tier, when should we expect to just become baseline for every killer?
Actually I doubt it, but I would be glad if they made it baseline. The fact is NOED is a dramatic perk which add to the suspense of the game by hard pressuring the survivors right before their exit. It add a simple question to the end game : "who will be brave enough to not flee for their life and, find that godamn totem ?" This switch of tempo right before the end, is fun and exactly what should be expected from an horror game.
But why do survivor don't like NOED, are they not up for the extra challenge and surprise ? Of course they are, but here's the thing ... they LOVE to stick around when the gates are powered. They hidde in bushes and farm every tiny bit of bloodpoint they can, and of course this has been so easy for them, that they usually don't feel the URGE to escape at all !
Those survivor trolls, are always looking for the hatch instead of exiting through already wide open gates, and eventually they take it for granted. So of course, when people are tired that survivors get to jerk around instead of moving on to another game, they play NOED to extra pressure them and eventually teach them a lesson. But do they learn ?
HELL NO THEY DON'T ! Instead they insult the killer in the after game lobby and go straight to this forum to complain about the very existence of this perk. So all I have to say to them is:
"Stop bitching and do yourself a favor: leave the f***ing game when the gates are powered !"^This. NOED is not a problem for me because I make use of Dark Sense and forethought. I see the Killer going to patrol one exit, follow them, and wait for them to leave. Once they leave, I open it and escape. Problem solved.
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Lets be honest. At this point in the game if you still use NOED as a killer you're trash.
Using it a year ago was questionable. Trying to justify it now is like a survivor trying to justify using Dstrike a year ago.
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@Might_Oakk said:
Lets be honest. At this point in the game if you still use NOED as a killer you're trash.Using it a year ago was questionable. Trying to justify it now is like a survivor trying to justify using Dstrike a year ago.
Using a perk doesn't make you trash. I use perks that complement each other, creating builds. NOED is one such perk. If the Killers who use NOED are trash, what does that say about the Survivors who lose to them?
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NOED serves an important function for the game. Just the fact that it exists forces survivors to consider looking for all the inactive totems. They don't have to of course, but it is always in the back of their heads. Every game, every survivor should be thinking "is the killer running NOED?" It helps slow down games just a little bit which is a good thing. It also helps survivors become better survivors.
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Being hit by NOED is easily avoided in most cases to be honest. In every game as a survivor you can be 95% sure that there is always a kamikaze-survivor that is going to run in a straight line directly to the nearest exit-gate in the same second that the last generator is finished. I always try to account for Bitter Murmur etc. and wait around to try and disguise my exit route. It's like caution doesn't even exist for people when all the generators are finished and that is fine by me - if you're on a suicide-mission so be it.
Of course in some situations you can't avoid being hit by NOED, but what fun is a game where you win every time?
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I really don't understand why people are making such a big deal out of such a small change
If so many people are running NOED and you clearly can't handle it, try countering it. Something like Small Game or a Map with Red Twine, for example.
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@Might_Oakk said:
Lets be honest. At this point in the game if you still use NOED as a killer you're trash.Using it a year ago was questionable. Trying to justify it now is like a survivor trying to justify using Dstrike a year ago.
Let's be honest. At this point in the game if you still use Bamboozle as a killer you're trash.
You remove all mindgame and outplay possibility that survivors have on many spots.
Would anybody ever say this? no
See how this works? Every perk is a crutch, that's what they're there for.
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I love how effective perks are named 'Trash', by both sides, it's honestly ridiculous. Do some perks need a bit of a rework....well yes, but nobody is trash for using the tools GIVEN. As a survivor, if i see an unlit totem I will take it down if its safe to do so at the time. Considering I stumble across at least 1, 2 or sometimes even three in a single game without searching for them, it should not be so difficult to disarm the perk if every totem was taken down the same way.
I'm usually a safe altruistic player, meaning i don't hook rush and will do my best to get you down and not get you killed seconds later, heck I'll even try and pull the killer onto me if i fudged up and they are actually closer than i thought. However if at the opening of the gates i see a healthy person insta-downed, I am out of there.
All perks are used to give an advantage to a certain situation. People cry out that it's unfair to give a 'bad' killer a chance at a free kill, i say bullpoop to that. Even without getting rid of the totems it is counter-able, you just have to be smart about it. Hide, go stealthy, don't make an immediate rush for the gates in the open if you aren't close enough, or go open the other gate if the killer is camping the open one, and don't hang around the open gate tea bagging like a baboon if you have a chance to escape.
Sometimes you'll be unlucky even when you've mostly done everything right, but as someone pointed out already, nobody is guaranteed a win in this game. On the few times i play killer i will 3k because someone gets the hatch, i shrug and i move on because again, even if i did everything right, that doesn't guarantee me a 4k.
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again ?
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NOED only activates at the end of the game. So just break the totems. Or, just leave, if you get a chance to open the door and leave and you know that the killer has NOED just go. The killer can't hit you if you're at the campfire.
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@Orion said:
@SIX said:
Both NOED and DS should be replaced with somewhat decent perks while not being too OP, both are trash and reward poor play/toxicityExcept both reward poor play on the Survivor side. DS for being caught, NOED for not breaking totems. The only difference is that one benefits Survivors, and the other benefits Killers. In other words, Survivors are the cause of their problems.
lol ds has a counter plenty enduring for instance . Just lets imagine if ds wouldnt be a thing then i can hook anyone whenever i want lol ez
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@SIX said:
Both NOED and DS should be replaced with somewhat decent perks while not being too OP, both are trash and reward poor play/toxicitySo noed is a crutch because it gives you more objectives?Meaning more time to spend in a game with a killer. But according to community gens taking too fast to fix lol
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If you cleanse a dull totem the game should give you the Hex notification icon ONLY, not the actual Hex indicator though (eg. "Ruin"). That way you know a killer has a totem in play and if, by the end of the game, you ruled out all other Hexes then you will know to expect NOED. It encourages survivors to do at least 1 dull at some point during the game which slows down the game, which is ultimately the purpose of NOED - to deter gen rushing. I think that's entirely fair since you can tell a survivor has DS from the obsession spikes (though you can't tell if other survivors have it, but that's a different topic).
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I get the point but...
why don't you make sure all 5 totems are cleansed when 1 gens left?..
RNG sure, but it's procedural as to where things can spawn, and it's not hard to guess 5 points in the maps.
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@thesuicidefox said:
If you cleanse a dull totem the game should give you the Hex notification icon ONLY, not the actual Hex indicator though (eg. "Ruin"). That way you know a killer has a totem in play and if, by the end of the game, you ruled out all other Hexes then you will know to expect NOED. It encourages survivors to do at least 1 dull at some point during the game which slows down the game, which is ultimately the purpose of NOED - to deter gen rushing. I think that's entirely fair since you can tell a survivor has DS from the obsession spikes (though you can't tell if other survivors have it, but that's a different topic).So how to know if killer has hex in play again ? Explain more
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Lol DS has plenty of counters! *proceeds to name exactly 1, that only reduces the stun time*Slayer said:@Orion said:
@SIX said:
Both NOED and DS should be replaced with somewhat decent perks while not being too OP, both are trash and reward poor play/toxicityExcept both reward poor play on the Survivor side. DS for being caught, NOED for not breaking totems. The only difference is that one benefits Survivors, and the other benefits Killers. In other words, Survivors are the cause of their problems.
lol ds has a counter plenty enduring for instance . Just lets imagine if ds wouldnt be a thing then i can hook anyone whenever i want lol ez
Yeah, that's totally a counter. Like cleansing totems to completely avoid the spawning of NOED... oh wait, no it's not.2 -
@Slayer said:
@thesuicidefox said:
If you cleanse a dull totem the game should give you the Hex notification icon ONLY, not the actual Hex indicator though (eg. "Ruin"). That way you know a killer has a totem in play and if, by the end of the game, you ruled out all other Hexes then you will know to expect NOED. It encourages survivors to do at least 1 dull at some point during the game which slows down the game, which is ultimately the purpose of NOED - to deter gen rushing. I think that's entirely fair since you can tell a survivor has DS from the obsession spikes (though you can't tell if other survivors have it, but that's a different topic).So how to know if killer has hex in play again ? Explain more
If you do a totem (dull or lit) and the killer has a Hex, any Hex active or not, you get the Hex icon (the triangle thing). You do NOT get a notification of which Hex it is unless the Hex procs (eg. you hit a skill check on Ruin). The idea being that a survivor will take time away from doing a gen to do at LEAST 1 totem just to see if one is in play. If they see there is, and then over the course of the game do not encounter any Hex notifications, then it's going to be a NOED. That means survivors, solo or SWF, will likely NOT finish the last gen until the totems are done. At the end of the day killer gets more time. Sure, you might lose out on the Exposed effect more often now but the game will definitely slow down. It's like a warning to survivors to not rush gens, whereas currently there is no such warning and thus survivors rush gens. They might assume a NOED but that doesn't actually stop them from doing all the gens, it just makes them play super immersed when gates are powered until someone gets hit.
Like if you wanted to protect your home from burglaries you get a home alarm system and put WARNING signs on the front door. This says to the criminals that YES I HAVE AN ALARM DO NOT F WITH ME. Whereas if you had the alarm but no warning signs someone might still break into your house, and while you do have the protection of the alarm it's the THREAT of the alarm that is actually the deterrent, not the alarm itself. Some dumb MF might still try to break into your house, at which point you are put into danger. If you had the warning signs they wouldn't even attempt to get that far, thus you are infinitely safer from harm.
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@Tsulan said:
Lol DS has plenty of counters! proceeds to name exactly 1, that only reduces the stun time
Yeah, that's totally a counter. Like cleansing totems to completely avoid the spawning of NOED... oh wait, no it's not.
You can dribble, that's 2 as well as maneuver them to a better spot before downing them so that ds becomes useless.
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You can dribble 15 meters. Unless you are close to a hook, DS has no real counter.powerbats said:@Tsulan said:
Lol DS has plenty of counters! proceeds to name exactly 1, that only reduces the stun time
Yeah, that's totally a counter. Like cleansing totems to completely avoid the spawning of NOED... oh wait, no it's not.
You can dribble, that's 2 as well as maneuver them to a better spot before downing them so that ds becomes useless.
DS rewards bad players.
NOED punishes gen rushers.
Those are 2 different things, but most people seem to think they are the same.1 -
@Tsulan said:
powerbats said:@Tsulan said:
Lol DS has plenty of counters! proceeds to name exactly 1, that only reduces the stun time
Yeah, that's totally a counter. Like cleansing totems to completely avoid the spawning of NOED... oh wait, no it's not.
You can dribble, that's 2 as well as maneuver them to a better spot before downing them so that ds becomes useless.
You can dribble 15 meters. Unless you are close to a hook, DS has no real counter.
DS rewards bad players.
NOED punishes gen rushers.
Those are 2 different things, but most people seem to think they are the same.NOED also rewards bad killers as well as punishing gen rushers since if a killer is bad at applying pressure they can just sit back and do nothing till the end game if it's up. So in that sense they are both the same, they both can reward bad players.
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No, they are not the same.powerbats said:@Tsulan said:
powerbats said:@Tsulan said:
Lol DS has plenty of counters! proceeds to name exactly 1, that only reduces the stun time
Yeah, that's totally a counter. Like cleansing totems to completely avoid the spawning of NOED... oh wait, no it's not.
You can dribble, that's 2 as well as maneuver them to a better spot before downing them so that ds becomes useless.
You can dribble 15 meters. Unless you are close to a hook, DS has no real counter.
DS rewards bad players.
NOED punishes gen rushers.
Those are 2 different things, but most people seem to think they are the same.NOED also rewards bad killers as well as punishing gen rushers since if a killer is bad at applying pressure they can just sit back and do nothing till the end game if it's up. So in that sense they are both the same, they both can reward bad players.
Survivor completely failed in losing the killer.
If survivors gen rush and repair the gens in 3 minutes, then there's nothing the killer can do. He can't get 12 hooks in 3 minutes he can't even get 2 kills in 3 minutes.
Not a pressure problem. Also, only a few killers have high map presence. The others are simply to slow at moving.2 -
@Tsulan said:
No, they are not the same.
Survivor completely failed in losing the killer.
If survivors gen rush and repair the gens in 3 minutes, then there's nothing the killer can do. He can't get 12 hooks in 3 minutes he can't even get 2 kills in 3 minutes.
Not a pressure problem. Also, only a few killers have high map presence. The others are simply to slow at moving.Ok just stop, the 3 minute game gen excuse is way overused and most games don't go that fast unless it's the killer 4 king because someone dc's early or crashes during load screen. The only times it's goes that fast survivors winning is if the killers just plain bad, the survivors are competent 4 man swf, the map rng or a combination.
I'd love to see the devs post an average of the game time to finally put an end to that excuse as an argument since we all know since the bnp nerf and other changes it's not valid anymore.
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If 3 minutes are overused, so are 4 kills.powerbats said:@Tsulan said:
No, they are not the same.
Survivor completely failed in losing the killer.
If survivors gen rush and repair the gens in 3 minutes, then there's nothing the killer can do. He can't get 12 hooks in 3 minutes he can't even get 2 kills in 3 minutes.
Not a pressure problem. Also, only a few killers have high map presence. The others are simply to slow at moving.Ok just stop, the 3 minute game gen excuse is way overused and most games don't go that fast unless it's the killer 4 king because someone dc's early or crashes during load screen. The only times it's goes that fast survivors winning is if the killers just plain bad, the survivors are competent 4 man swf, the map rng or a combination.
I'd love to see the devs post an average of the game time to finally put an end to that excuse as an argument since we all know since the bnp nerf and other changes it's not valid anymore.
Same story.4 -
I still don't understand why some people find NOED so terrible or overrated. Personally I don't even rate it among the top 5 best killer perks.
NOED haters: Isn't it more about you being frustrated about having lost a decent game or two due to bad luck? Well, that ######### happens - NOED or not. You've probably escaped a handful of times where you didn't deserve it as well. Grow up.
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@blaahval22 said:
NOED haters: Isn't it more about you being frustrated about having lost a decent game or two due to bad luck? Well, that ######### happens - NOED or not. You've probably escaped a handful of times where you didn't deserve it as well. Grow up.With you on this one. It's the typical "I played perfectly until right at the end when lazy, cheating, scrub killer used NOED/Rancor, downed me, and I died" response.
When I see Noone Escapes Death come up, my first thought is always "Awww #########. I guess I should've cleansed that totem after all". Then I get (or try) myself out of that gate as quickly as I possibly can.
And if you're on the hook, I'll wave at you as I peg it out of there.
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@Tsulan said:
Slayer said:@Orion said:
@SIX said:
Both NOED and DS should be replaced with somewhat decent perks while not being too OP, both are trash and reward poor play/toxicity
Except both reward poor play on the Survivor side. DS for being caught, NOED for not breaking totems. The only difference is that one benefits Survivors, and the other benefits Killers. In other words, Survivors are the cause of their problems.
lol ds has a counter plenty enduring for instance . Just lets imagine if ds wouldnt be a thing then i can hook anyone whenever i want lol ez
Lol DS has plenty of counters! proceeds to name exactly 1, that only reduces the stun time
Yeah, that's totally a counter. Like cleansing totems to completely avoid the spawning of NOED... oh wait, no it's not.
@Tsulan said:
powerbats said:@Tsulan said:
Lol DS has plenty of counters! proceeds to name exactly 1, that only reduces the stun time
Yeah, that's totally a counter. Like cleansing totems to completely avoid the spawning of NOED... oh wait, no it's not.
You can dribble, that's 2 as well as maneuver them to a better spot before downing them so that ds becomes useless.
You can dribble 15 meters. Unless you are close to a hook, DS has no real counter.
DS rewards bad players.
NOED punishes gen rushers.
Those are 2 different things, but most people seem to think they are the same.3)Unerving presence
4) swing around
Also you have to get yourself downed either near some loop or pallet and hope that you MAY hit DS for perk to get to be useful and killer may just not pick you up and he wont really suffer from it1 -
@Tsulan said:
powerbats said:@Tsulan said:
Lol DS has plenty of counters! proceeds to name exactly 1, that only reduces the stun time
Yeah, that's totally a counter. Like cleansing totems to completely avoid the spawning of NOED... oh wait, no it's not.
You can dribble, that's 2 as well as maneuver them to a better spot before downing them so that ds becomes useless.
You can dribble 15 meters. Unless you are close to a hook, DS has no real counter.
DS rewards bad players.
NOED punishes gen rushers.
Those are 2 different things, but most people seem to think they are the same.3) unerving presence
4) swing around
Also you should get yourself downed either near pallet or some good loop in hope that you MAY hit DS to get good use of perk and killer may just leave you there and get use of it. So killer doesnt suffer from ds.0 -
"CLEAN ALL THE TOTEM" bla, bla, bla, bla
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