General Discussions
General Discussions
DS ins't changing at its Core so, why all the salt?
Seriously, why all the salt about removing the abuse of a perk? If you're doing any actions to progress the game you're certainly not being tunneled, and if the killer comes right to you after an unhook you'll get to use DS same as before.
The only people complaining about the DS changes are the ones who'd use it to sit in a gen in the killer's face to force a DS or do unsafe unhooks to force it too.
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Most people think the changes are fine. (excluding some skepticism around what counts as healing)
The minority that is upset just scream the loudest I guess
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'Cause some people don't care how unfair their favorite toys are, it's theirs.
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Because the people that were abusing the current iteration are upset they won't get to continue doing so. That is the long and the short of it. All the talk about DS just being there as an anti-tunnel Perk was just cover for those that were using it offensively, i.e. aggro in a SWF. The Perk is not changing in any way that will affect the use that most people CLAIM they are using it for, which means all the people complaining are simply angry because they ARE the people abusing it and who caused this change to come down the pipe.
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Because others are allowed to have a different opinion. I thought these were forums for feedback?
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Survivors tend to get a little upset when their crutches are taken away. Just give them some time to accept reality.
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Survivors complained about Ruin, and the most recent upcoming Undying nerf?
I know I don't partake on the forums much, but I am pretty sure those were killers complaining.
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I personally cant wait for the beginning of the game mechanic so gens dont get done in 3 or 4 minutes. Thats when the real salt will come.
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Survivors complained about ruin and it got nerfed. Survivors complained about new ruin + undying and guess what?
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You said you don't partake on the forum much, and yet you have over 3000 posts?
Also, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Survivors have a history of getting salty when their overpowered perks get nerfed.
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This was basically "scrapped", or, to be more precise, evolved into something different (no infos about it yet).
And IMO an early game mechanic is not needed.
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I mean, I don't. I don't come on here every single day of the week.
The point that I am making is that you only think survivors are salty because DS being nerfed is the flavor of the week. When Ruin got nerfed, it wasn't survivors complaining.
Having a different opinion isn't being salty. Being salty is being immature about the feedback you give. If it's constructive why does it bother you?
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They should focus on poor early game killers instead, and not every killer in this category... I play Oni most of the time (but I'm putting real effort on learning the blinky girl) and an "early game colapse" could make oni be the best killer in the game since as soon you've got the blood flowing in the map is really hard to counter his snowball besides spreading, imagine if I could do it before 2 or 3 gens got done (most of the time tooks 1 or 2 gens to get this going with Oni)....
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Because the survivors who used it as a crutch now have to rely on their skill.
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This is another thing, it is really hard to balance. Something which is alright for Trapper or Wraith, which are weaker Killers might be totally oppressive on Spirit, Oni or other really strong Killers.
So totally agree.
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I've been here longer than you, and I even I don't have that many posts (3000 is a lot).
Anyway, the reason I said survivors were salty was because it was the only logical answer to OP's question. Why would anyone who is knowledgeable about the game be upset over the DS changes? It's because those people were abusing the perk and now they can't abuse it anymore. Simple.
Also, for the record Ruin did not deserve a nerf. Killers used Ruin because it partially remedied one of the core issues with DbD (aka gen rushing). The only compensation killers got from the devs was a toolbox nerf and a few other minor changes.
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Just like how killers got upset when their crutch perk undying got gutted? Hmm. Goes both ways. (:
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Not everyone who is upset at the DS changes were abusing the perk. I for one, only care because they didn't adjust the thing it counters from a core mechanics perspective, even though that can be easily abused.
As for Ruin, I agree. Ruin didn't need a nerf. The reason I brought it up is because of the implication that "survivors get salty when something gets changed". When Ruin got nerfed, the pages were filled with complaints, which some like you would classify as "salty".
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Sure it goes both ways.
But it's more satisfying when overpowered survivor perks are nerfed because of all the favoritism survivors enjoy.
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Yes! Exactly! You get it!
I will say undying was 'better' for the game than DS was, as undying didn't invert a core feature of Killer-survivor interaction, but both were over-preforming and did weird things to the game and its power level, and weren't very fun to be used aggressively and constantly, so both got changed, and in both cases people got salty over it!
I have more sympathy towards killers over undying (It was unilaterally nerfed in the way it was meant to be used) than survivors over DS (It was nerfed in a way that doesn't affect the nominal appeal survivors pretend it has of anti-tunnel) but ultimately neither are necessary for either side to have so big belly aching about it is weird. I also can see the 'meta' complaint of killers as the Devs... well they don't favor the survivors per-say (the game is killer sided actually) the way they interact with the community biases VERY hard towards survivors, so the undying nerf being on the first 'meta' perk killers got in a while that changed the game and made it less hectic (I think ruin-undying proved killers need more base regression even if not THAT powerful) definitely makes the salt extra salty.
So its the same, but the survivor salt is extra unjustified. Not that it matters, people are gunna be salty over EVERYTHING. Survivors were salty about hatch standoffs going away for crying out loud, and killers were salty about losing the Machine Gun build. What matters more than belly-aching is 'How good is this for the core gameplay loop of DBD?' And DS was clearly... very much not.
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Also, as to the real reason for the belly aching:
This IS a core change to DS. Survivors never really needed an anti-tunneling perk that does anything besides stop slugs, which BT already does. Tunneling is already a self-defeating strategy if the survivors make any attempt to counter it (A survivor can do 2.6 gens during a camped hook kill, so the killer WILL lose if they camp and don't snowball off it due to survivor error), so that was never why DS was popular.
DS was popular because survivors like having the ability to do the one thing survivors shouldn't be allowed to do: Ignore the killer's presence as an obstacle. As an anti-camping tool it is completely superfluous. But as a method of forcing progress into the game it is more akin to say... an extra brand new part, or a free medkit syringe, which obviously is really powerful when you think of it that way: It allows you to basically ignore the killer for one activity in a game where the killer's time is so tight that messing up say... twice... makes a game unwinnable if the survivors play well.
So that is the real reason for the belly aching. It isn't even just that people recognize the core perk isn't being nerfed, its that the core appeal of DS and why it was a meta-perk was because that was never the core appeal in the first place.
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I don't think it is satisfying either way tbh. As someone who plays both sides pretty consistently (rank 1) I see both sides and their concerns.
There is a degree of epicaricacy in these forums, that I would rather not fuel. It doesn't help balancing the game and certainly doesn't make these forums a less toxic place.
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The main salt is due to the utter babying the Devs give to low skilled players. It's starting to slowly become like WoW; where instead of putting in the effort to learn how to play and grind the hours to get better.. they just cry and cry and cry until it gets nerfed to their skill level. Some examples:
Ruin = Nerfed because survivors cant hit skill checks
Bloodlust = Added because killers didn't want to learn how to mind game
Undying = Nerfed because survivors don't want to look for totems
Infinites = Removed because Killers refused to leave a survivor and catch them off guard later.
Decisive Strike = Nerfed numerous times because Killers still refuse to not tunnel survivors.
Hatch = Made it so Killer gains closing priority
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The irony in this post. Imagine defending ruin/undying.
crutch perks are gone. Git good.
for the record I’m red ranks both sides and use neither ds or ruin/undying. I don’t need crutches
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McClean said on Twitter that DS will only deactivate based on the player's actions. So unless you're progressing the game, DS will still function. In other words, a true anti-tunneling perk.
Also, I use the word salty when someone complains about something that shouldn't be complained about.
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Please quote me defending Undying. You just made a strawman argument.
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It isn't really your decision to decide what "shouldn't" be complained about. For people that enjoyed using DS has a right to be distraught at how the perk has went to hell with constant nerfs for sole purpose of making another side happy. DS users bought and played the game the same as you.
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Bloodlust was added in an era where infinites were a real thing and entity blocker wasn't. You were not going to mindgame the auto haven wretched shop when it had two windows open right next to each other and a longish wall connecting them. You chase them, they hop over, you go around, they hop over, you fake, they hop right over again, eternally.
The problem with infinites depended on where they were located. I never had a problem with the silo because it was off in the opposite side of the map. But when the loop is in the center like iron works or wretched shop, it's too accessible for it be ignored. Every chase leads to it because how easy it is to reach with 1 damage boost.
Most of the problems of this game has been caused by whoever green lights maps and only now are they starting change it but after they added so many bandaids.
Personally I see the hatch change as a neutral. I don't think anyone liked 10 min standoffs because making the first move meant you lost.
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In my opinion an early game mechanic makes sense, give the first chase less weight and therefore give killers who are worse in chase a more even playing field with those who are great in chase.
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Your first statement is well taken. Although, to be fair that's a pitfall nearly everyone falls into.
Just remember that people aren't doing the community any favors when they defend overpowered perks. They're just making good change more difficult.
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When killers win an overwhelming majority of matches with ease, there's no such thing as an overpowered survivor perk.
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I don’t think you know what a strawman is. Big oof.
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Survivors didn’t use it for that they used it as a get out of jail card
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"The typical straw man argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition through the covert replacement of it with a different proposition" hes saying you created a strawman argument because you brought up undying he never said anything about it and you said he is defending it aka a basic strawman argument.
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Thank you for this word, I'm gonna stuff it into my next essay somehow. The Germans can keep their Schadenfreude
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I mean..you answered your own question.
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Because bully squads are now only left with flashlights, body blocking, and head on to troll killers.
Thats simply not enough trolling variety.
We cant let trolling get stale now, can we?
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/ means AND OR. Therefore I said imagine defending ruin AND OR undying. Did he not defend ruin? I’m confused. Are we reading the same thing?
Id love to know how that is a strawman. Even the definition didn’t help you :(
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not only do you not know what a strawman is, you don’t know what / means. Sad :(
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Because they want to have 60 seconds of doing gens for free, now with the change they can't do gens so they are complaining.
No more doing gens in front of the killer = upset.
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You can't rely on those numbers because they don't take into account all the complexities of the game.
The general consensus is a well organized SWF team is stronger than most killer setups. Veteran players have been saying that for ages now.
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Not everyone has the luxury of playing in a organized really sweaty SWF to stand a chance at winning.
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/ doesn't always mean and or it can be interpreted in alot of different ways and has multiple meanings, so saying / Is black and white your meaning is just wrong. If you look when people talk about ruin/undying they talk about them as a combo so you even bringing up undying lends to you talking about the combo of ruin/undying because no one was even talking about undying till you started saying "imagine defending ruin/undying". If you cant understand the definition of strawman and how that correlates to what you posted after i pointed it out to you than no one can help you.
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You don't need to be in a SWF squad to stand a chance at winning. Solo players can be nearly as strong as a SWF team.
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There´s also a lot changing for Survivor in a positive way.
Moris, one of the most unbalanced things in the game, are now pretty much without any impact sans 2nd hook DS prevention.
Undying gets severely nerfed soon.
Freddy is up for nerfs.
Iri heads 100% will be looked at in the near future when Huntress is due for her update.
Please try to look at these things a bit more calmly. DS is still as good an anti tunneling perk as it was before. The nutty broken aspects of it are getting addressed. Personally, I was not one of the people that was burning for a DS change, but this seems so tame. I´m very sorry but the complaints about this all sound exactly the same to me as the salty Killer tears when Pops duration was changed to 45 seconds.
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From my experience 25-50 percent of survivors liked to offensively stab the killer now it will be hard and not worth. The only ds play left is to get tunnelled and 90 percent of killers know can keep track of that one. I do think they should pause timer in chase and give a sprint burst after stun if not exhausted. But sprint burst is just better now in every way.
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Nothing is positive on the survivor side. It's a dismal experience. Everything gets nerfed that is worth using. Meanwhile, the killer meta has been the same since leatherface came out. But, because it is a killer DLC they refuse to touch it. Perfectly acceptable that 99% of killer mains use BBQ for an advantage.
I'm calling it now, Freddy will hardly be nerfed. They might give him a very tiny number change and call it a day. He will still teleport to survivor objectives at the blink of an eye, use aura perks, remove objective progress. Meanwhile, survivor has nothing to combat. And as far DS, you won't even be able to work on the objective. Claudettes will hide behind bushes to save their DS and the game will be lost even more than it was before.
Undying is not even getting nerfed, it is getting buffed so Devour Hope is twice as hard to remove. On certain maps the killer will win automatically. Killer perks don't get nerfed. They get buffed (look at Ruin).
I have no faith in the Huntress nerf.
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Because people cant abusing it when the nerf comes out
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*Gasp* survivor meta builds haven't changed since the halloween chapter which was introduced at the end of 2016 it is 2021 now, leatherface brought bbq and chilli but killer meta has been shaken quite a bit, going from ruin for early free pressure to corrupt + pop to ruin and undying.
"Undying is not even getting nerfed" no it is nerfed but devs gave compensation to that which made it not have an aura reading perk on hex totems, no more rng it will be 2 chances so ruin and undying will be less effective but other combinations such as the one you mentioned will be stronger.
They won't touch licensed killers? They did touched PH and nerfed him in some way while made him stronger in others.
Didn't freddy actually get nerfed as well? He doesn't get bloodlust when spamming snares afaik.
Stuff like the one you mentioned "because it is a dlc they refuse to touch it" same can be said about the other side.
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Killers do the same thing? LOL
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This ^
Im a survivor main and i legit am just excited that OoO new affect is cool af.
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