DS ins't changing at its Core so, why all the salt?
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Freddy was buffed to be godly and leatherface too. Myers hasn't been touched but he's already strong. All licensed killers buffed and mostly OP. It's nice that they buffed PH to offset the nerfs they gave him. Too bad that doesn't happen with survivors. Laurie has been nerfed to absolute hell and Ash is totally garbage after they ripped everyone off. Others too. There is a very clear bias in the devs. If you don't see it, then I can't help you.
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Freddy and leatherface godly...... While I agree there is not that high of a skill cap for either they are nowhere godly, Myers strong? You are the first one that I've seen say that, Myers has the worst start of every killer, he is also tall and his addons are not that great in fact the best ones are green and you could argue that the irri ones are really strong but against competent survivors they are not.
And after many years we got unbalanced and unfun stuff nerfed now we can say the same thing that survivors tell us, just adapt sounds like you are upset because you won't be able to do gens with DS up, DS will be a real anti tunnel perk.
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Because people won't be able to abuse it anymore and that makes them feel bad.
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Its an unhealthy change for the game. It looks fixed at it's core but its gonna encourage killers to tunnel more.
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I saw the stats, Myers was like #5 or something out of all the killers. Your expectations of a killer are too high.
I don't care about using a perk where I'm punished for doing the objective and then the killer decides to return and tunnel and a "decisive" perk is not there to use. I'm happy waiting for better games.
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This depends on the mechanic that's introduced if its introduced because if its block gens it could be but if its slower repairs at the start of the game or find switches to kick start the gen before repairs that can be pretty fair
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"Everything get nerfed that is worth using."
Really? Where are the nerfs to BT, Unbreakable, DH, Adrenaline, Iron Will then? The whole survivor meta perks were literally unchanged for years (with the exception of BT and DS, which actually got changes, but you hardly can call them nerfs). Or do you watn to imply that the named ones are not worth it, only current DS is?
"Killer meta has been the same since leatheface."
######### are you smoking? Yes LF brought BBQ, but the perk on it's own is mediocre at best, only a threat with high mobility killers, and still has PLENTY of counterplay. 80% of the killers only use it for the bonus BP, and would switch it out instantly if it wasn't for the BP.
Meta has not changed? So Surveillance, Bamboozle, Pop, Discordance, Corrupt, Infectious, Thrilling and ESP. Undying have not changed anything? At least Pop and Ruin-Undying were crystal clear meta changes, the the latter was then changed after jsut a few months already. Compare that to the survivor meta, not changed for years. So if you are really complaining about a stale meta. don't be a hippocrite and complain about the survivor side as well.
"And as far DS, you won't even be able to work on the objective."
If you have time to work on a gen, the killer is not tunneling you. Whats so difficult to understand there? If you want to make extra sure, let yourself be healed before jumping on a gen again. The only thing that won't work anymore is using DS aggressively, doing gen or unhooking in the killers face, a thing that should NEVER have been possible! Heck, jumping in a locker and even taking protection hits will still work!
"Undying is not even getting nerfed ..."
We will see that, it's not as set in stone as you make it out to be. The current Ruin-Unduying can be very devastating if you have to go through all 5 totems until Ruin is gone. With the new one, your DH will have two lives at max. Given how crappy many totem locations are, it can still be cleansed within the first minutes. And there's no synergy anymore with multiple Hex perks besides Unduying. Only the first hex found will get a second life (if undying is not the first). Also, as if DH has no counterplay. If you know / expect it, unhook early so the killer does not have time to get far enough for their stack. Or bring Detectives Hunch, with the "gutted" DS you now have a slot free, or not?
"Killer perks don't get nerfed"
Like Pop's decreased timer, you mean? Ruin change alone was certainly no buff. It only became viable with Unduying. Old ruin had universal, albeit inconsistent effect without the killer having to do anything. New ruin has a consistent effect the killer has to work for. New Ruin is no threat at all on low mobility killers, except you three-gen yourself and do not find the totem. Old ruin did at least help a tiny bit there, if only for the removed skill check bonus.
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I saw stats that nurse is the worst killer, what is your point? Both you and I know that is a lie.
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Even the so-called worst killer kills 2 on average. I would imagine an outsider that was looking in at this game would roll their eyes. Luckily for this game and the devs, the survivor player base is desensitized at losing and are happy to play the game and accepting loss. Killers certainly don't accept it.
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BBQ and RUIN have always been killer's two favorites. Ruin was change into buffed. A variation of the two other perks always limited to a few popular ones, same as survivor. It doesn't matter which ones. You can't name a killer perk that has been nerfed like DS. Self-care as well but not as much. Balanced Landing was once a meta perk, I used to love that perk as well. What happened? Totally destroyed. I don't remember the last time someone used it. I'm not wasting my energy to think of others, but I know there is others as well.
Killer meta perks are never nerfed to an extent they are never used. Killer perks are never a detriment to use. Killer perks do not punish the killer for doing their objective. Killer perks do not require a survivor to do X or play in a Y manner. But I will say this...killer perks will punish the survivor for doing theirs.
"If you have time to work on a gen, the killer is not tunneling you."
Until he comes right back with his chainsaw. Or a Spirit phases right back.
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Dude stop. The "DATA" is utterly BS. If your argument is based on "big data" and graphics you're already wrong and there's nothing you can say to change it.
DBD doesn't really work based on data since it cabe be easily skewed.
It's like the devs saying that OoO and Keys aren't usefull since most of its users die totally ignoring that these survivors are hardcore tunneled and just screw the game experience for killers.
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You remind me so much of Almo the dev, just because it is on the statistics doesn't mean they are the best, according to the stats pig is the best killer also the most popular one.
Stop basing your things on stats as well since even the devs said "don't use stats to prove X thing".
Bbq got nerfed, ruin got nerfed, undying is the only reason people use ruin.
I don't see people not using DS after the first nerf in fact I see it more than before.
You must be over reacting or trying to troll one or the other.
Ruin didn't get buffed it got nerfed, before it was used for a bit just to find chases after that people didn't cared about it, it went from free early pressure to mid/almost endgame and even then it was horrible without undying.
If you can't hear a chainsaw then that is not the killer's fault is it?
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Stats are facts. If 75% of a population in a country is white and 25% of the population is black, then that is precisely what that means. If 75% of people die in Dead by Daylight, then that is precisely what that means, only 25% survives. You are saying that a certain committee, namely the killer committee has had a meeting and declared that stats don't actually means anything.
In real life stats are solid facts and they are solid facts in a game. The developers can say whatever they want to satsify their players. If they say "ignore" they are probably trying to make you happy with the stats. I don't even think everything has to be balanced at 50%. But, when you have killrates at 68%, 73%, 76% and even higher, I don't think you go nerfing fair and decent perks that might actually increase the killrates even higher.
At this point, I'm going to say you are trolling when saying BBQ was nerfed. It's purpose is still intact. Decisive Strike's purpose is not intact. "There is nothing to be afraid of" - is supposed to be an escape from the killer's grasp. Being afraid to do the objective or you will lose it is now the theme of the perk.
Scenario: The billy is on the other side of the map. Survivor believes he is chasing someone else, but in trying to be a good teammate he works on the gen. The billy returns.
No it isn't the killer's fault, but the survivor lost a privilege for simply working on the objective. It is punishment.
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You really gotta be trolling at this point, you really are like Almo but at least he can back things up with his stuff.
You never see variables only stats, OoO users die the most, why? That is what they don't show, most killers will tunnel them out of the game asap.
So going by what you say since stats are facts then let's bring back 7 blink nurse.
DS purpose is still intact which is an anti tunnel perk, now it will be an anti tunnel not a free 60 seconds of pressuring gens.
Killrates are higher because survivors now a days are bad going against killers that actually know how to play the game, we have been getting good stuff for a while now and now survivors complain? What happened to the "we use DS because we get tunneled" or the git gud from the survivors to the killers?
Fair decent perks? OoO is a fair decent perk with a swf? Not at all, solo I guess, DS used offensively is fair? You must be a survivor only gamer if you think those perks are fair.
What is next? Old insta heals were fair? Old bnp? Old moris? Old infinites? Sending yourself to haddonfield with balanced landing is fair?
On your scenario: survivor is doing gens instead of healing? Guess you aren't getting tunneled for being a "good teammate", I guess it is hard to turn around to see if the killer is coming your way.
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"Killrates are higher because survivors now a days are bad going against killers that actually know how to play the game"
Somehow in DBD survivors are all bad gamers and killers are all skilled gamers. Sounds very entitled to me.
Now I know why DS was unfairly nerfed. The devs actually has to cater to people like you. The ego must be protected.
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You are the one crying about the nerf not me, every post I see you, you are always entitled to "survivors this survivors that" killers bad blah blah
I'm guessing you are the type that plays only with meta perks just by how you are complaining about the nerf.
Currently you are the type that is saying that DS will be useless, which by how the devs stated it it's not, can't play without the free 60 seconds?
Unfairly nerfed lmao sure buddy whatever keeps you asleep.
I may be an entitled killer that has been playing survivor more than killer these past months, just doing fun stuff like using pebble or head on since I know how to play without meta perks.
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Hold your horses killer mains. This is Behaviour Interactive we're talking about, I wouldn't be surprised if they change it to 90 seconds to compensate.
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It would actually be good. They can change it to 5 minutes if it means that the survivor can't to actions to progress the game for that time. Might as well play a 1v3.
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"Killer meta perks are never nerfed to an extent they are never used."
If the meta perks are not problematic, why should they be nerfed? BBQ may be meta, but on its far from OP / problematic. It only can get oppressing with high mobiltiy killers. It has multiple counters. It rewards the killer for switching targets and thus incentives anti-tunnel. It can lure the killer away from important gens. Old ruin was deemed problematic / frustrating / unreliant, so it got changed. On its own its mediocre, needs high mobility as well, can be totally taken out (cleansed). It got problemaitc with Unduying, since it could remain active the whole game using 3 rewspawns. So that will be changed tomorow. If Undyuing+DH turns out to be to much, they will adjust for it as well. Pop got it's timer removed, because it allowed to do to much different things in the whole minute. And thats it, there are no more real meta perks on killer side. There are some strong ones as well, but no perk is really problematic.
But we had Metas perk that were totally gutted in the past. Remember machine gun build? Both STBFL and Unrelenting were total meta and heavily nerfed, bc they were highly problematic together. Unrelenting is still weak since then. STBFL got a buff some years later again, which made it usable again. So your claim simply does not hold up. In the recent years, sure there was no killer perk gutted. But thats bc it was simply not required. Devs are very prone of releasing very situational or mediocre perks for killers with the last chapters, and the only really strong / problematic one will get it's change tomorow (undying).
Lets look at survivor perks:
- Mettle of Man was totally busted on release, granting an additional health state for no effort. That got changed fast, albeit so much that it's hardly usable now, not gonna deny that. It was not wrong to nerf that, they just went overboard with it.
- Balanced Landing was highly problematic on certain maps (haddonfield), since it opened up near infinites just with its stagger reduction alone. (Near) infinites should never be a thing, one survivor alone should not have the power to run the killer for multiple minutes, without much the kilelr can do about that except giving up. It's still a 4vs1. So stagger reduction was linked to exhaustion, and total noise reduction was added as compensation. It may not be as strong as before, but it's still very good, far from gutted, esp when used stealthy. I encounter it occasionally, and when used right (playing the stealth aspect) it can be a real pain.
- DS on its release was totally busted as well. All could strike instantly. That got changed to only the obession being able to strike instantly and the others after wriggling. But this version was still problematic, since the killer had no means to avoid it (except dribbling), and the survs can use it practically without effort. Facing a 4-man with all DS was a real pain, so that was changed again to the current form of being an anti-momentum perk. This iteration is considerably better design-vise, but still very exploitable, as many, MANY survivors will prove you in every other game. It is seen as an anti-tunnel perk, and defended as such. But then used very aggressively, to allow unhooking or repairing in the killers face or to force the stun on the killer by letting yourself be grabed (from locker, medium vault, gen ...). This very aspect is to be fixed / nerfed with the upcoming patch. It keeps it anti-tunnel aspect, but the use out of that is heavily restricted. That does not make it useless at all, lockers still work, DS+Unbreakable still works, but you just have to think about your actions now, whether you can afford to lose your DS by proceeding with objectives or not.
- OoO grants way to much, esp. when comms are involved, then it's just beyond broken. It can single handedly cripple some killers (Trapper, Hag). Even in solo queue, even with stealth killers, if you know how to use it it's spine chill on steroids. This one heavily needs adjustments. The change proposed by the devs would make it much more balanced, since it grants counterplay to both sides (tricking the survivor / killer into a wrong direction) and even gives you some nice boost in a chase, given the killer uses aura reveal mechanics like aura bottles from clown, aura an madness tier up, blights addon reveal addon.
The only one "nerfed to an extent they are never used" would be mettle, the others are still very much usable.
"Killer perks are never a detriment to use."
Surviror perks neither, thats a stupid argument, perks are there to help you by definition. Tne only perk falling in this category would be No Mither.
"Killer perks do not punish the killer for doing their objective."
Survivor perks do neither.
"Killer perks do not require a survivor to do X or play in a Y manner"
Really? Never lost a hex totem? I require the survs to not find or cleanse them. Never got your DH stack denied bc the survs unhook instantly? Never got your BBQ aura totally avoided by all survs being smart?
I guess you mean that you need the killer to actually tunnel so you get value out of DS. But honestly, if the killer does not tunnel so you do not need DS, isn't that a good thing? DS is an insurance perk, the new one even more. You take it with you for the occasion, not the general effect. The same could be said about Calm Spirit (in case of a doctor) or UNbreakable in case of slugging. Or using Pop together with Ruin, in case Ruin gets destroyed.
"killer perks will punish the survivor for doing theirs."
Sure, end game perks or coup de gráce for example. But not all are this way. And it's exceptionally hypocritical to complain about that for killer perks, when (current) DS works exactly the same against a well performing killer.
"Until he comes right back with his chainsaw. Or a Spirit phases right back."
Get yourself healed first before jumpiong to a gen again, or simply wait a few seconds whether the killer comes back again. Also, maybe seek the blame at your unhooker if the unhook comes just seconds after the hook, and the killer did not even had the chance to find a new one to chase. Or if your unhooker stealthes away, so you are the only target.
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I have heard this mechanic is still underwork, yet i have heard it changed into something completly different 👀
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The changes are fine but I think it does need something to make the perk better.
It was mainly used as an offensive perk by high rank players because killers who tunnel can easily negate DS. It was an ok attempt as an anti-tunnelling but it now should be made better.
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I'm sorry that thing they mentioned a year ago?
It's been on the ahem "long list of ######### BHVR said they were working on like 6 eons ago and are yet to be released" some items include: Early game mechanic, moris and keys (long before the mori change), blights POV (like half a year ago), Iri head and I'm sure you can find some more BS they said ages ago.
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No because the perk was never effective at dealing with tunneling. I'm all for changes that narrow the scope of the perk but all of these changes are strictly from the perspective of improving the experience for the killer. I really thought the screenshot was a joke because it's exactly what a lot of killer means have wanted. There's no improvement for the survivor, the victims of being tunneled whom this perk is supposed to be remedial and provide some relief. For the survivors that abuse the perk, I totally understand why. Most killers that tunnel will then go out of their way to circumvent DS so it makes sense that survivors will go out of their way to gain utility out of it.
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Even almo isn't that bad. If sluzz was in charge of game balance DS would have infinite uses, stun for 30 seconds each time and survivor queues would be about 6 hours on average
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No. I'm sorry but the change doesn't do anything of the sort. DS remains exactly as good at being a deterrent for tunneling as before. The only thing it doesn't allow you to do now is jump on an objective in the Killer's face. For the record, I am a Killer main (although I play almost as much Survivor in Solo) and I suggested that DS activate after every hook, not just the first. Please do not try to make this into an "us versus them" argument; it isn't. Most Killer mains also play Survivor, and all anyone is interested in is a fair version of this (and every) Perk.
My own suggestion was as follows:
- DS activates after every hook that doesn't kill you.
- It last for 60 seconds or until deactivated.
- It is deactivated by interacting with your environment in anyway aside from avoiding the Killer.
- DS will not activate during the End Game Collapse, but will run out its time if activated prior and continues during.
In short, I (and most Killer mains actually) were suggesting DS be useful after every hook and not be dependent upon there being an Obsession. The DEV decided to go with the more Draconian approach. I can only assume they have some stats which had more weight on them than us.
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I think deactivating on gen repair was all that was needed.
Deactivating on healing doesn't seem necessary to me.
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Damn bro. Spitting straight facts holy #########
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It does exactly what I state which is nothing. Nothing has changed about the perk in a fundamental way. And don't lecture me about us versus them, I never engaged such stupidity. My point stands and is very clear, not sure why you decided to write a novel. these changes only provide benefit to the killer, and there's no consideration for the perspective of the survivor. The survivor's the one that gets tunneled, yet this perk provides almost no relief. Unless the tunnel is limited to 60 seconds, you go down and are picked up within that time frame and you successfully succeed the skill check once per match. Then yes it provides some relief but if the tunnel falls outside of that very limited and specific perimeter, you're screwed.
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because bullies can't shove it in killer's faces anymore and they're upset their toys are getting taken away
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For someone who claims they aren't engaging in an "us versus them" argument, you sure spend a lot of time doing it. :) But suit yourself... I suggest you not take it since it is so bad in your eyes. Or, go find a game you like.
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You've lost the argument, you address things I never raised and you fail to address the things I did. Since you're trying to be smart, let me educate you. The us versus them argument is the idea that the the devs favor one role over another when it comes to balance changes or adjustments or people that are very exclusive in their views on roles. I never said that nor implied it. I did however state the very clear fact that these changes are exclusively from the perspective of the killer. With that said, the cornerstone of my feedback is that they aren't making quality or balance changes from the perspective of the survivor regarding DS. My position on DS has nothing to do with this upcoming change. It has to do with the fact that imo DS doesn't do enough to deal with what is perceived as the stated goal of the perk. Before you reply, make sure you understand what you're responding to.
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The healing part means healing others, not you being healed, unless you're healing yourself
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Whatever you say champ. ;) Again, since DS is unacceptable to you, don't take it. Problem solved.
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What I said is factual so it can't be dismissed as whatever. And when someone's unhappy about something, they provide feedback. If we went with your logic, nothing would ever change. The only reason DS is changing is because of feedback. The more you reply, the less smart you appear.
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