Will the Ds and OoO Nerfs kill this game?
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Camping and tunneling is a core issue within the game and it was never solved by a perk (probably never will be). If a killer wants to tunnel you, he is going to tunnel you. I think in order to get rid of these killer "strategies" they would need to implement a new system into game's fundamentals.
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The only people I can see leaving the game due to this change is salty survivors, or incredibly toxic ones. Good! Don't let the damn door hit you on the way out.
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Anyone who thinks the game is going to die from the nerf of these two perks is hilarious.
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Well, you see, thing is, when this game came out, Survivors were broken overpowered... So every step away from his golden era feels like a betrayal to the country he once knew.
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Lol this is a ridiculous statement.
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But in a serious note.. Literally anytime a survivor complains even once about a bad nerf/change, you only have to bring up the pig
Almost every single survivor nerf had a reason behind it that made sense, even if misguided.. then there were the pig nerfs.
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This doesn't make sense tho, since DS is still the ONLY perk that deals with tunneling. If you aren't using DS as an anti-tunnel perk, what are you replacing it with. This is exactly like killers saying they would never use Ruin again when it got it's massive change, except most killers stopped relying on a perk to solve their problems way before Ruin, so the complaining was somewhat less
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Since you've changed your post from the time I originally made my comment, I decided to respond.
Quite frankly, if you are having such a miserable time, leave. This game clearly isn't for you.
To address your actual points though:
Decisive Strike meets all the conditions that got Old Ruin nerfed. Decisive Strike has been a hot topic ever since it was released. DS gives completely free pressure for simply existing.
Here are a short list of problems with current DS
- It can be used to account for bad positioning.
- It can be used to BM opponents.
- It can be paired with other perks to create something uncounterable.
- It gives the Survivor the ability to work on Objectives with zero risk of punishment.
- It allows Survivors to go for unhooks, when they really shouldn't.
- It puts the Killer into a lose-lose whenever someone unhooks.
- It lets Survivors have a get out of jail free card for 60 seconds.
- It is completely unfair in the EGC.
I think you get the picture.
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So much tears, like if you are against the OoO and DS rework, then you have no clue whats going on with killer gameplay. NO CLUE!!
Ds and OoO are needed to make your survivor qeueus go lower, yes you heard it. Cause killers are absolute sick and tired of going against it. The way its going to be its like it shouldve been all along. The perks have been abused into oblivion for all the wrong reasons.
You'll see more killers, less qeueu time for survivors after the nerf, i guarantee it.
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As a killer main, i absolutly hate DS.
But i feel like DS should be disabled when you are fully healed. Either by yourself or by your teamates. Not when you start healing, cause thats OP tbh, especially for killers who run Nurses calling.
All the rest is a good change
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no
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Killers catch Meta Nerfs: #########...not again...
Survivor's catch Meta Nerfs: TO THE FORUMS, THIS WILL KILL THE GAME!!!!!!!!!!!! I am unable to adapt!!!!!!!!
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Bye
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Huh?
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Yes
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"Survivors are used to nerfs" i dont even have to say anything else, that phrase is a joke by it self
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I dont use DS and if I did after this change I would stop using it and go for something else.
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Survivors get nerfed since 2016. Not saying that those Nerfs are not justified, but Survivors got way more Nerfs than Killers. Even if Killers are always acting like the Devs are survivor-sided when one slight thing on the Killer Side gets nerfed.
(We will see in a few weeks when they address Freddy)
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Survivor Q times are instant during the day at red ranks EU.
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I'm guessing this is a joke since this english is at eng'r'ish levels of bad. No one will take you seriously if you don't fix that arse spelling and grammar.
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Why though? It still deals with tunneling, what it’s meant for. Why change it out for something else after the nerf exactly, you’re still gonna be able to stab the Killer if they tunnel you.
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Because after the change I cant even heal my saviour without losing it, it will punish Survivors for doing their objective or even doing secondary objectives.
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The title was interesting, the comment you copied more so.
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I believe the reason for that though is so you don’t do things in front of the Killer’s face like Generators, Totems, Healing, and Unhooking. It’s meant to be a anti-tunneling perk, and so it is one. If you are being tunneled, then by all means, use it, it’s what the perk is made for. If you’re not being tunneled and believe you’re safe from the Killer, then do those actions and save it until later because you’re not being tunneled.
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no
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In that case you can go down and get slugged, thats how I deal today with bold DS users, especially the ones that follow you around to eat a hit, people being cocky with DS were already being punished.
Then again, main problem is not regular walking Killers like Myers or Doctor, is the racecars, the ones you think you are safe because they were far away and 5 seconds later are on top of you because they can cross the map in seconds.
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If you manage to deal with Decisive Strike users like that, then you should also know that Unbreakable is used alongside it, meaning even if you slug them, they’ll get right back up and leave or 99% the recovery so someone can come pick them up. If you watch Killers at higher rank like Otzdarva deal with Decisive Strike and Unbreakable, you can see it’s very much a pain to try and play around, especially if the entire team has it and is communicating with each other. Each second counts in Dead By Daylight and if you get stabbed by 4 Decisive Strikes, you just wasted 20 seconds, almost guaranteed you lose the match.
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Of course I know theyll be up, especially the people who are very keen on eating a hit, but someone slugged is someone slugged anyway they are still wasting time and either they use their Unbreakable or wait for someone to heal them and save it.
In any case the best way of dealing with bold DS users, especially the ones who follow around after an unsafe unhooks is to avoid them and go for the savior, odds are he will linger trying to bait you wasting time doing nothing at all.
The case you say is super rare and its more a problem with SWFs than DS itself, Im rank1 Killer, the SWAT squads abusing DS in abrasive ways are extremely rare, that being said I dont play the racecars and rarely tunnel so DS is usually a non-issue for me, cant remember the last time I ate one which wasnt intentional on my side like "I have 6 hooks and they fixed only 1 gen, lets get DS out of the way since Im doing good" and stuff like that.
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I realize queue times vary depending on region, day, time of day, and rank. Not everyone can play during the day, and I'm in central North America. Survivor queues aren't great even in the afternoon, and during the evening when I can play they're long as hell.
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I know, sometimes the truth hurts.
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Honestly don't even try.
I am actually starting to think these forums are swarming with Killer mains who don't really care to listen to anyone else but themselves.
Instead they would rather make a meme or a joke about their opposite stance. Just watch how they treat a new forum member who might not be up to date on everything, claiming something is OP. None of them share the same respect, they show each other when talking about balance inequities.
Like, just think back when Ruin got nerfed, pages upon pages of complaints.... and regardless of how you feel about that specific nerf, there is a big segment of this community that will act like it's only survivors doing the complaining.
Survivors got Pallets nerfed, Structurally maps were nerfed by adding annoying dead ends.... core survivor mechanics. Meanwhile, Camping, Tunneling, and Slugging remain the exact same. So we ALL know survivors have been hit the nerf bat, and they have adapted.... but you are better off talking to a wall at this point.
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i'm personally planning on not playing at all after next patch (i know that's not the ds nerf patch) because of the UI being pushed through despite all of the negative feedback. the ds nerf was just the cherry on top. (i don't mind the nerf that much but the games are hard/frustrating enough as a solo player)
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I think it’s worrisome considering how much of an issue tunneling is currently. It will only get worse.
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Yes
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The game will be a tunneling fest, so yeah, the salt will be increased and tons of players especially casual will drop the game. Me personally I don't care, i play survivor only for challenges and dailys
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The change will not affect people who are actually being tunnel it will work just how it always works however if you are working on a generator and progressing the objectives you cannot justifiably expect the killer to ignore you.
I legitimately don't get how people can see something that stop survivors from choosing the perk as it's gonna leads to more tunnelling.
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My man, you're delusional. The reason survivors got most of their nerfs were due to actual balance issues. There was no reason to nerf pig, but they nerfed her. They didn't have to nerf Trappers bear traps to the point you can walk past them in a narrow corridor, but that's what happened.
You keep talking like survivors have it the worst because they received nerfs as well. And what are you survivor only players doing right now? Forum post after forum posts crying about DS nerf. The only difference between now and the Ruin nerf, is that killers who didn't use the dn perk didn't cry about it because it didn't effect them. Meanwhile, every survivor jumping out the woodwork complaining they can no longer forward their progress at the expense of the killer (because that's literally all the proposed nerf changes do) complaining about a change to a perk I'm sure they hate to admit they need every game.
All this talk about killer sided this and that.. lmao you must not have been here when survivors were planning to boycott the game because if Freddy didn't get nerfed (which ended up happening because survivors actually did it..)
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So basically you're complaining about something you don't even use? Thanks for providing evidence.
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You got anything actually substantial to say? I love how you bring up Pig's nerf as if that is the only example we have of killers that needed adjustments.
I am pretty sure this conversation is about survivors adapting not dissecting that was nerfed.
Seriously if you don't have anything actually worth reading, go bother someone else.
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Because its a perk that depends on Killer actions to be used, I dont tunnel so people using DS against are playing with 3 perks, I apply that logic to what I equip, I tend to avoid RNG based perks like Hexes and perks that you are not guaranteed to get to use them like DS or Deliverance. And me not using a perk now doesnt mean I didnt use them in the past.
That doesnt mean I cant have an opinion on them or acknowledge they are good/bad or if the changes are justified or not, I dont use Undying and I believe the change they are making to it is wrong.
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Sounds like everytime a Killer perk gets Nerfed/fixed.
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I've seen it said numerous times already by different people, and I still don't understand the logic: "Tunneling will rise with the DS change".
Tunnelers are going to do that anyway. They do that now, with everything DS allows. They would do that if you BUFFED DS in some fashion, because that's how they play the game. They'll keep doing it after the changes. Nothing will change the behavior of those killers.
The killers who DON'T tunnel -- but who, obviously, have opportunities -- aren't going to suddenly start doing so. When I play killer, I go out of my way to avoid going after the person who was last unhooked. I rarely eat a DS as a result. There's no logic to think that the killers who play like I do will all of a sudden have their "tunneling switch" turned on.
If you run DS to avoid the tunnel, the perk will still work as it should. I played 11-12 matches or so last night as survivor. I ran DS every match but only used it maybe 3 times? I had two matches: one that represented how DS should work, and another as to how it shouldn't. In one match, I was downed next to the killer's Ruin totem. As soon as I was unhooked, I went immediately back to it and tried to break it, instead of trying to get distance and find a safe location to reset. The killer found me on the totem and downed me. That was 100% my abusing the immunity of DS to try and get rid of the totem (IIRC, I actually missed the DS skill check, ironically, lol -- inadvertant karma, if you will 🤣). With the change, I can still choose to make that decision, but now there will be actual risk involved for that reward, instead of all reward (getting rid of a troublesome perk) with zero risk attached.
The other match, I was the first person downed by a Ghostface, who proceeded to pseudo-camp the hook in stealth mode (I could see him through the corn on a farm map lurking by). The second I was unhooked, he went right back after me and downed me again. After I hit him with DS, he STILL kept coming after me, chasing me from one end of the map to the other. We even passed people working on gens, and they kept coming, eventually downing me a 2nd time (but what would have been a death hook if not for DS, since the guess is that he would have simply camped again). The problem for the GF was that, while focusing on tunneling me, gens were getting done left and right. This time, the GF left the hook, I was pulled off, someone took aggro for me, and the last gen popped. I escaped that match, and the extra hook state DS essentially gave me is the reason why. Even if DS had been already changed, nothing about what happened to me in that match would have changed one iota.
That GF was a determined tunneler, and it cost him gens getting done, and DS got me my escape. That GF is going to keep on tunneling, change or not. The killer in the 1st scenario wasn't tunneling -- he ended up checking back on his totem (where he knew at least two survivors had been, myself and the person who rescued me) and found me on top of it (probably wondering why I was so stupid as to not look for safety, before probably realizing I was abusing an active DS). That killer likely isn't going to change their playstyle either.
If you run DS now to avoid the scenario I ran into against the GF -- then you have no reason to stop running it. If you run DS to pull stunts like I tried with breaking the totem, then you should be accepting the risk that will now come with it -- that's the kind of abuse that led to this change. Risk/reward = better balance.
I think the only change that could improve what we're looking at is to have healing yourself NOT deactivate DS, and having every match have an Obsession, regardless if anyone (killer or survivor) is running an Obsession perk (to avoid situations where the killer knows no one is running DS). Other than that, this isn't going to kill the game, suddenly turn every killer into a tunneler, or any of the hyperbole that's being tossed around. Almost all players will adapt, just as they did when Ruin and Pop were changed, just as they did when DS was changed in earlier versions, just as they did when BNP's and toolboxes were changed, etc.
Post edited by ChiSoxFan11 on8 -
i came here because of the Scott video :D
okay jokes aside, this claim you're making is ridiculous.
especially since you're making it for the exact same patch where the Undying nerfs are making it out, which, btw, got hit a lot harder than DS did.
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Read the q&a write up. There simply wasn't enough killers. Hell I barely touch killer or the game itself anymore. Survivors having invincibility and toxic OoO swf are two of the biggest things that really suck the fun out of the game like a greedy vampire.
This might actually help the game in bringing more killers back.
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You know man has good baits when even scott falls for it LMAO.
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Come on that's not the same, Undying is just overkill since it came out without any counterplay.
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First, who?
Secound, maybe because it's not bait?
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Take it easy.
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im not gonna go into much of a discussion here - mainly because im not really interested in wasting tons of time on a bait post like this.
i genuinely hope this is a bait post and you're not actually being serious right now.
but with this community you can never know, so just in case:
go play both sides before making balancing claims.
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Scott Jund, if you don't know him search him up. He's sometimes questionable with what he says but sometimes he's alright.
If it isn't bait then take this, I'll put it in black and white:
The new DS changes have changed DS so you cannot sit on a gen for 60 seconds and get free progress even if the killer comes to contest. The "chase another survivor" argument has so many holes in it I could make a 10 page essay on why it's not a viable tactic under high level circumstances.
Your idea that survivors are weak has been tested and completely disproved by high level players, with most tournaments having strict rulesets for survivors (no more than 2 of the same perks) and plenty of clips showing how a killer can lose due to unlucky map RNG or 1 tiny mistake. In fact maps alone have been proven to be survivor sided in most cases, hence why only about 4 maps are used in scrims and tournaments. The only reason you might think survivors are weak is because of trash matchmaking, which is not a good base to form a strong opinion on.
Your ideas that BHVR only cater to killers are also pretty wrong. Both sides have been nerfed both years ago and in recent months. Whether you think that the devs cater to one side is up to you, but to say they ONLY cater to said side is incorrect.
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