The community's reactions to the ds changes
I stayed silent about this topic, because I really wanted to see the community's reaction. These are simply observations, so let's dive straight in.
Starting from the killer side, some killer mains when they heard the news, had to quickly change their pants, because they have almost 30 forums complaining about Ds and bhvr finally heard their prayers.
The other 50% of the killer playerbase, maybe less than 50, don't really give a #########, because it was something that they could predict and play around, but it was a good change, they suppose
On the other side of the spectrum, some survivor mains deleted the game the moment they heard about the ds change, because they were so addicted on running it. They think it's totally fair to do a gen in front of the killer because they have ds, or finish 1 gen with a teammate, get downed and still having ds active. These players either complain in the forums or they cry in bed because bhvr betrayed their trust.
Now the other half, and more reasonable survivor playerbase are kinda annoyed that they can't do gens because ds will deactivate, but they guess that the change was worth making because ds was mega powerful. They will probably remove it from their build, but it's not the end of the world for them.
What do you guys think about my observations? Notify me down below.
Comments
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The DS change is fair. But tbh for me the only difference will be that if i get hit by a 59 second ds i can comfort myself that survivor didn't do anything for a minute.
I don't think I'll be able to unlearn the play around ds playstyle though.
I am pretty happy they were able to look at a perk. Find the problem and fix the problem while still leaving the perk strenght intact
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actually what you could see forum is killer biased and survivor mostly dont really care about ds changed. only some survivor protesting about it.
meanwhile when survivor insist undying change you could see some hatred from killer.
anyway I'm more waiting for spirit stridor nerf and freddy.
while i also wanted trapper to be buffed and plague to be buffed a bit. The rest should be okay
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I have yet to see anyone seriously claiming to play around survivors using DS for free gen time, free unhooks, free totems, etc. Mostly they just claim to power through it.
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I dont think something gonna change, bad killers still gonna complain about it and bad survivors gonna use lockers more often
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Outside of of people who admit to abusing DS I have seen nothing but positive feedback on it.
Heck from what I have seen there's hardly any apathetic responses to it because it is the face of the meta so everyone had to deal with it in one way or another.
It also doesn't hurt that the perks main purpose of being anti tunnel.
No dev has ever said otherwise also peanits(A community manager not a dev) only said it once while directly contradicting the developers QA on the rework thread. So peanits made an honest mistake and was wrong on calling it not anti tunnel.
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I’m rank 1 survivor and have never unlocked DS. Which half are you putting me in?
I am red rank killer and am in the half that doesn’t care about DS. It’s so insanely easy to play around.
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Wait what?
There are 7 threads about DS on the first page. Starting from: "gonna uninstall" over "want a refund", "this can't be real" and asking why. To buff ideas and negotiations to make the nerf less severe.
Basically the 5 stages of grief.
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Yeah those seem like killer mains LARPing. I can’t imagine anyone cares that DS is getting this slight nerf.
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yeah you could see the amount of hate ds nerf compared to undying nerf. Both are killer protesting, survivor main usually dont bother about it, DS is rarely activated on match. sometimes i wonder why most killer protesting it while they usually just slug survivor
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Nah, it's the same like 5 survivors that come on here and go nuts against killers, fellow survivors, and hybrid players that disagree with their "points". Most of them, when replying on other threads, will try to shift the conversation to nerfing killers/claiming survivors receive a constant barrage of nerfs/try to start fights and arguments unrelated to the topic.
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All I'm gonna say about the nerf is; IF A SURVIVOR HAD TIME TO DO A GEN, WORK ON A TOTEM OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT, THEY AREN'T BEING TUNNELED.
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well like i said this forum tend to be killer based. I think right now after DS nerf and undying nerf we could agreed on it.
Survivor didnt complain as much as killer regarding DS nerf than killer complaining about Undying nerf.
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I'd say probably 90% of the forum community has reacted positively to the DS change.
Most people seem pretty happy with it, survivors included.
I even saw a post reacting positively to the DS change with over 100 upvotes...on the forums that many upvotes is extremely rare.
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I think this is a good change to the game. Unlike some other reworks I can think of, this one won't make the perk useless. They could have taken the old MoM route and gutted the perk so it's no longer useful at all. Instead they actually catered to both sides with the DS change. It will still counter tunneling off the hook but it won't be 60 secs of immunity anymore should you choose to do something.
This is reminding me of when BHVR added exhaustion to the game. People bitched and moaned on the forums but deep down. Most agreed being able to recharge SB while running was not fair. Or when BHVR added the mechanic to block infinites after 3 vaults. Sure people complained because they would have to adjust but these changes improved the game.
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DS nerf was unnecessary. DS does what any other perk does: give the survivor an advantage.
DS works good against tunneling killers, why does that mean that this perk should only work against tunnelers?
If a killer uses tinkerer he is supposed to go to the gen and sneak up on them, but if he finds another survivor instead, does this mean he is "abusing" tinkerer??? The reason for the nerf is just so dumb, imagine a survivor perk giving an advantage to a survivor...
This much used argument that the survivors with DS have 60s godmode is way too exaggerated, acting like you cant hit the survivor when hes doing a generator or something else. Its litterly a whole perk slot for just that 1 advantage that you get , just ONCE per match, and more than half of the time you dont even get to use it.
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I kinda feel the same way. When a very skilled team uses DS+UB aggressively, there is no such thing as "playing around it". This combo guarantees saves or objective progress and there´s nothing that can be done about it.
Seasoned Killers just have become so skillful that they can win despite the fact.
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I don't think there is anything logically wrong with your thoughts. The only issue I take is the notion that this Forum is the "community" when it most certainly is not. It isn't even a good representation of the community. For every person who has EVER posted here, there are hundreds upon hundreds that just log in and play the game. They are oblivious to the existence of this Forum or simply cannot be bothered. Do you get my point?
Forums are not a poll. Forums are more like a call in radio show. The only people who bother are the people so easily angered and self-righteous (note that post here too) that they cannot help themselves. Most people, the actual community, are quite satisfied. Thus it is always dangerous to apply any lessons or trends we see here on the Forums to the actual game or populace of people playing the game.
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This isn't necessarily true and is one of the reasons I have issues with the new DS. A lot of the people are under the assumption that tunneling is only possible when camping. The killer can decide to not camp and still tunnel you out of the game and the DS changes are going to make this very easy to do so.
For example:
Survivor A is a weak looper and goes down and gets hooked. Killer leaves to go down Survivor B. As Survivor B is being hooked Survivor A is unhooked by Survivor C and figures since they can't hear the killer's terror radius they are OK to start working on a generator. Seconds later the killer shows up and sees both Survivors A and C. Knowing that Survivor A has touched a gen and is a weaker looper the killer chases them without fear of DS and places them back on the hook. This can all be done in less than 30 seconds by the way. DS will still counter hard tunneling, but its going to encourage a different type of tunneling even more and I worry for weaker survivors that rely on DS to keep them in the game. And if they want to ensure that they don't get tunneled they have to basically take themselves out of the game for 60 seconds which is not healthy gameplay.
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My issue with DS is almost the same as your example but one big difference.
"Survivor A is a weak looper and goes down and gets hooked. Killer leaves to go down Survivor B. As Survivor B is being hooked Survivor A is unhooked by Survivor C and figures since they can't hear the killer's terror radius they are OK"
Survivor B is hooked. Survivor A unhooks B right in the killers face. The killer assumes survivor B has DS+BT so they go after survivor A. Survivor A still has DS. In that situations it doesn't matter who the killer picks. Both are a waste of their time. The killer wasn't tunneling and they still get punished by DS. Slugging was also a waste if they brought UB. That was the problem I had with DS and I am glad that will no longer be a problem.
As for your example.
"Survivor A is a weak looper and goes down and gets hooked. Killer leaves to go down Survivor B. As Survivor B is being hooked Survivor A is unhooked by Survivor C and figures since they can't hear the killer's terror radius they are OK to start working on a generator. Seconds later the killer shows up and sees both Survivors A and C. Knowing that Survivor A has touched a gen and is a weaker looper the killer chases them without fear of DS and places them back on the hook."
In that sense yes the killer would go after survivor A because they are injured and know they don't have DS because they touched a gen. However someone already answered that question for me.
When survivor A was saved by survivor C. C should have healed A instead of being greedy and working on a gen. The change to DS will make it more anti tunnel and less of an offensive weapon. If you get unhooked and you decide to do a gen, you made a choice to forfeit your protection.
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I'm willing to eat my underwear and say the change presented, is not the change we will get. It will be somehow made better for survivors to continue running it.
Mark my words.
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I think they went with the worse option of the 2 most popular change ideas for ds but I guess the change is ok?
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pretty spot on.
ive seen ppl say it'd still be OP, ive seen ppl say it'd be balanced now, ive seen ppl say that it might need some smaller buffs to it now and ive seen ppl say it was utterly useless now and BHVR hates survivors.
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I still think locker ds is bullshit
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You are acting like killers are a hive mind that thinks in the same way as all of the others. You need to realize that all people are biased by nature, and not all of a group thinks the same way.
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"You are not allowed to be biased in a place that is all about sharing your biases, while I show my own bias because I'm doing it and not you". Do you not know what forums are my guy?
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I thought the same at first but then I realized I will hardly ever run into that situation. Just let me point out, I wipe my @ss with the survivors rule book. If it is in my best interest I will tunnel, camp, mori or any other dirty trick that doesn't result in a ban. Having said that, the only time I chase the person I just hooked is there is no one else.
If I see 2 survivors and one is injured. I will go after the injured one because it's a quicker chase.
If I see the same scenario but I suspect the injured has BT and/or DS then I will go for the person who made the rescue.
The only time I go after the person I just hooked is I ran into them by chance or someone saved them and sneaked away. I come back to the hook looking for the rescuer. I can't find them but I see the injured's blood trail. I consider that team induced tunneling because there is no one else for me to go after and passing up this opportunity hurts my objective.
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I feel like your missing a bit of the player base who feel like the nerf is going to kill the perk. They needed to make the perk better at anti-tunnelling to warrant people continuing to use it but they didn't.
I don't mind the nerfs, just wish they fixed it's main use.
I'm just happy I didn't see more people talk like tru3 did about the perk. He was genuinely complaining about the fact killers still need to respect DS lol
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I'm ok with that, both as a survivor and as a killer. From a survivor perspective, though, even though I never even tried to force DS from lockers or that kind of stuff, I feel like there should be a hard counter to tunneling, and I hope they add that with upcoming chapters. I mean, I sure as hell don't like to be chased until I die either of old age or boredom. They have to find a way to punish those who commit to a chase for too long, and it has to be unlinked to gen progression. People always use the "but gens fly, meanwhile" argument. And sure, they do. But as a player on my own, I don't like being forced to give others the chance I will never get.
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I didn't create a forum post with Captain Obvious level observations with the intent of insulting survivors under the guise of communicating both sides of the discussion. Quality comeback bro. 👌🏻
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DS is just a different flavor of the week.
These forums aren't known to not have any reaction.
It's funny how a lot of the DS threads seem to be from what it looks like players who just didn't like DS, now trying to belittle those who aren't happy with the changes. Too predictable even for these forums.
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Kinda aggressive comment, but sure thanks for informing me I guess.
I'm a hybrid player, I just find it funny that there are surv mains that lie on their beds crying because a perk was nerfed in a videogame.
I don't really give a ######### about your offensive language tho I'll be honest <3
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Thanks for openly admitting the intent of your post. It was obvious and I just wanted to call you out on your bullshit. <3
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please dont use personal attack when addressing arguments. if you said my arguments was wrong then at least we should see more survivor protesting on DS changed but now instead of survivor protesting mostly in forum you could see most of survivor dont care or like the change, meanwhile killer is happily saying that nerf was deserved.
compared it with undying changes, is it more killer complaining ? yes on my observation.
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I don't tunnel but I'm happy about this DS change because I'll no longer be DS'd by the 3rd identical Dwight that divebombed the hook with BT 30 seconds after he was saved. This new DS wont punish good killers who dont tunnel which is nice. People that are complaning about it still working in locker are outing themselves as hardcore tunnelers as if its active in that situation in this new version than you literally could have only tunneled off hook.
As survivor I stopped using DS well before the current version so I don't really care. If you're deleting the game over 1 perk, either side, that's pretty pathetic.
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I'm not trying to 1-up you, it's just that the fact you start off your response by causing someone for being biased, which everyone is, then get pissed because "nothing new is being said". If you are tired of it, then don't read it!
(Also, You can't really say anything new for something that has remain relatively unchanged for years. Then again, that's what you get when the devs say they consider community feedback. People will constantly give feedback, no matter how much it is regurgitated back again and again.)
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As a survivor main, I stopped using this forum shortly after it was released. Mostly because I felt like most people that were responding to me were Killer players. A lot who mostly just complained and didn't bother trying to give any constructive criticism or ideas to fix issues. (I inserted this to say that Idk how many survivors currently use this thread, so not sure if the responses on here are more killer sided, survivor sided, or equal)
I get that DS needed to be nerfed, but I don't think this change was 100% it. I ran DS frequently simply because there are those games that are so toxic, doesn't feel like there's a choice but to "abuse it" --->. I like to have fun and limit test. But if a killer is being super sweaty, that's super unfun to me because then I feel like I have no choice, but to be super sweaty back. I don't see another options besides giving up, and who likes to give up?
I've seen so many, "you shouldn't be able to do a gen in our face". Well, if I don't think I'm being tunneled, I'm going to do something to advance the game. And about half the time, the killer comes back to the hook area to tunnel.
I think the current DS could be amended. "While Decisive Strike is active, the following interactions will deactivate it 3/3.5/4 TIMES FASTER (while in the interaction):" The idea behind this is basically the same. But accounts for Killers who soft camp/tunnel. If you something to advance the game, your DS will be gone in 13/14/15 seconds. I think being healed shouldn't cancel it, just if the heal is completed. (E.G. someone tries to use their WMI on you, but then SURPRISE the killer is back to tunnel you)
Alternatively, it could still be nerfed in another way. Much shorter duration 15/17.5/20, but gets paused if you're in chase. or 20/25/30 seconds, but gets cancelled when someone else is hooked. (to prevent a DS->BT chain).
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I agree with your changes, but being healed doesn't stop it, neither does second wind. When you heal someone else or yourself, then it is.
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😅 I forgot how to read
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Perhaps because survs didn't get anything in years. That's why killers complaint about old perks
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DS was always extremely easy to counter, i have never had someone use DS on me where i wasnt either expecting it or i didnt down them 10 seconds later. Continue nerfing survivors and buffing killers and eventually all you will ever face is one SWF after the next.
Am sure all the killers would love that :)
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Yes it is. You're saying it takes devs a lot of time to nerf survs. And I'm saying this is because they can't nerf anything that appears in the last years, because as you said we have fun perks, but not useful. So they can only nerf old things. You can see it in the comments, asking for nerfs to tap gens, using W to run,...
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DS only bothered me in fringe cases where I had a whole using it and I got punished for simply playing too well against them. As a survivor I haven't used the perk in years so... meh.
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If the killer targets a weak link they are being efficient as they would generate permanent pressure from removing one player, sadly the only real solution is for the weaker player actually get better, if they depip to a rank which they could manage then they might actually generally get better and rank up.
The sad truth is the ranking system is so bad, people get paired with people out their skill league and get stomped or get paired with people below their skill league and stomp them.
Very rarely do people get balanced teams.
Matchmaking screws over newer players most of the time by pairing them with someone out their league which results in them either getting stomped or carried by better players which prevents them from learning and getting better.
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Nerf Freddy for what lol
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for not being so braindead skilless killer. maybe make him more fun to play against instead having OP power with little skills needed
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The killer part is right I was pretty happy that it was changed. I just found it annoying that I can run across the map and back as blight to find them on a gen while injured and I cant touch them. I personally found it unfair that they can progress their objectives but I couldn't because then I would have to slugging them and I don't like slugging
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its 50% of people saying its fair because you cannot use it for free gen progression while the other 50% of people say that its unfair because its so easy to play around
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