Will the Ds and OoO Nerfs kill this game?
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The games going to be fine. If you can't enjoy it with these changes that's a you problem.
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Honestly, I think it should have just been deactivated in exit gate. Sure, it can be abused in some situations, but that was the only one that just felt stupid to me. As it is, if I knock someone down that just got off the hook, i pick them up just to check for DS, then drop them back down.
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This is such an obnoxious point of view. I'm gonna assume you've changed your mind at this point after getting this amount of attention, but I'm still going to talk about it as if you haven't. DS is meant to be an anti tunneling perk, but the way it worked before let survivors use it to progress the game in an offensive way. It is still a viable perk, and can still be use to annoy the killer, but it doesn't allow survivors to progress the game with no consequence anymore. I'm sure you'll still enjoy the game just as before.
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OoO wont make a different i barely see it and if i do its rarely used efficiently.
DS is closer to what people want it to be, but reduces the “no f’s given” aspect of it.
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Ds still don't needed this hard Nerf a simple "can't used in the Egc" would be enough.
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No it's a problem for the game health. If you can't see it then you should Play survivor, just a littel bit.
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I play more Survivor than Killer.
DS needs a change, just like Ruin/Undying did.
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I play survivor for about 75% of my games, so I would consider myself a survivor main. The DS change changes NOTHING about how the perk works at its core. All it does is disallow cocky survivors from finishing objectives in the killer's face and still get away with being downed for 60 seconds, which is a long time in this game.
I see no issue with the DS nerf and IMO, everyone who's complaining about it just doesn't like that they can't abuse the perk anymore, likely including you. DS is not a perk any good survivor needs.
I'm new to the forum, but not to the game, having played it since 2016. I have never once run DS other than to get Adept Laurie, and even then I didn't actually use it as I managed to escape the trial without getting downed. Why did I never once use DS in all that time I've played the game? Because I still consider it an awful, cheap, free escape perk. I refused to ever run it back in 2016 and will continue to do so likely for ever, since I don't see this perk ever losing it's cheap get-ouf-of-jail-for-free aspect.
If you feel that this nerf will cause survivors to quit, then I say we'll be better off without those players in the long run.
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Honestly, the text for the "New" DS was written by killers. I've seen that idea posted on the forums several times. It is a bad fix to what is a lethal perk. It doesnt need a nerf persay but a change as it is abusable. Now if a survivor runs DS, they can do nothing for 1 minute if they want to use it. Which means now they'll most likely try run into you or jump in a locker. They cant do any interactions bar maybe snap out of it or mend. So they are useless as a team member for 1 minute if play. Which honestly gives the killer the better benefit of knowing that. NOT A GOOD IDEA.
Yeah theres dogshit killer combos that still need reworks I.e Bubba chain sprint beats Sprint Burst for some reason. Not to mention unless you're by a loop and not the abundance of dead zones now, you're going down by something out of your control. Infectious Sloppy on Oni, Spirit, Billy. Undying and Ruin. Legion with Thanat, Dying Light, Blood Echo, Sloppy, Broken pin, Blindness Pin. Too many to list. Heck, even had a Demo yesterday with Franklin's and he put portals on the items so we had to cleanse portal before we're allowed to pickup the item. And seeing as how he gets notified, good luck trying.
Even OoO change wasnt great. It was generally used for team play. Now it feels more solo. Which is ok but with that change, there are better aura readers like Better Together where everyone can see the gen a teamate is working on and see killer for 10 seconds when complete.
The devs didnt create this perk change ideas. They just copy and pasted the forum idea. Which is hilarious and lazy. Yes these among many perks need some changes, but not these dogshit changes.
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Hi, so another stupid survivor nerf might not kill this game but it is killing it slowly. As I quit a long time ago but all this game has is stupid survivor nerfs and I'm a player that never enjoyed that. When stupid doctor was buffed and survivor had nerfs? And I'm not surprised to randomly come here and see another stupid nerf because a baby killer can't tolerate a perk in a video game. These nerfs are a joke.
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You're blinded by your own ignorance dude.
I play both sides and I don't even use ds.
I still have loads of fun as survivor even if I get tunneled.
I have no problem looping the killer for a while, either he gets me eventually (at which point he lost the game) or he gets annoyed not getting me and leaves me alone.
I think you rely to heavily on 1 perk so I suggest if it bothers you so much, you change a little bit of your playstyle.
Ds isn't a necessity for survivors to have fun, i can tell you that much.
Even played no mither without ds and escaped.
So is the nerf killing this game?
Not even close.
Is the nerf a problem for the game health?
Nope also not even close, it's actually a good chance for the game health.
It's just time to wake up and open your eyes and see that it was a necessary change to the perks.
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I think your issue is that you feel you're somehow entitled to get to use the perk at all cost.
DS is an anti-tunnel perk. If you aren't getting tunnelled, then it shouldn't activate. It's literally that simple.
People need to realise that not all perks are meant to be used in every trial, there are several that only activate in dire circumstances and help giving you a second wind if you need one, and DS will be one of those, which is fine. It'll be like burning a White Ward, because you're afraid of losing a good item and then surviving with it regardless.
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People are STILL posting bait to the forums. Why?
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We'll lose some survivors who are bad at the game and rely on broken perks, but those players will be replaced near instantly.
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Killers will now have to wait an eternity in the lobby! I'm pleased!
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If HEX perks had no counterplay, undying would not be needed. That statement just shows a ähm. öh.."deep understanding of the game" or so...
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This is disconcerting, but for a different reason.
You're claiming that there are enough survivors willing to quit the game over a nerf that solely impacts the abusive side of DS (but leaves it intact for its intended use as an anti-tunnel perk), that it'll impact killer queues.
Honestly, I think the game will be better off without such players.
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And still you will wait an eternity in the lobby as a killer. Because many many many many many many many many many survivors will stop playing.
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I think that, currently, people are overreacting to the rebalancing of OoO and DS. In its current state, DS is more effective as anti-momentum than it is anti-tunnel. If anything, the killer is more likely to tunnel for DS to remove it from the game early rather than have the potential for it to be available in the endgame.
The change to DS solidly defines it as anti-tunnel, since if you're being tunneled you can't work on gens/heal/rescue survivors/cleanse totems. All too often, someone will complain about tunneling despite being left alone for more than 30 seconds. All too often, DS will be used as a free pass to do whatever you want for 60 seconds. Continue working on a gen in the killer's face, unhook in the killer's face, jump in a locker mid-chase.
OoO on the other hand was being used by SWF as a way to provide constant information on the killer, or make looping easier.
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Conversely, it can be easily said that the game will be better off without Freddy and Spirits players, or killers that use NOED and Ruin to crutch and have a significant advantage. See, it can always be turned around.
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Interesting argument.
So on one side we have people who abuse a specific perk.
On the other you've chosen to put people who dare play two different killers you don't like.
That's a whole different level of entitlement there.
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I'm assuming you are referring to abuse as the survivor working on the objective within the 60 sec timer. Guess what? The killer can down that person and take the DS to disable their perk or leave them on the floor. What's next? Nerfing sprint burst because they have it cocked at a gen while they are working on it? It is safe to say killers are the ones entitled here.
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No, you aren't entitled at all, you just don't want people to play killers you aren't good against.
No entitlement there, lol.
Gotta say, never saw anyone saying any particular survivor shouldn't be used, but hey, you do you.
I'm not saying there is no entitlement on the killer side whatsoever, but come on, it's a different level when you're trying to say people shouldn't pick entire characters because you don't like them. That's just ridiculous
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Actually, I have to take that back. I have seen multiple posts saying Claudette is bad or toxic somehow. All made by survivor mains.
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When their argument involves the word "Entitled" after I explained that it does need a change, just not a killer main forum made change. I hate the word entitled on this as everyone is just so pre judgemental.
It's a powerful perk that needs balancing for sure. But why not take time in making the likes of Pharmacy or Deja Vu better. So many perks forgotten and unused and they're nerfing the most used down to the same forgotten state. If this nerf goes through, so many people are not gonna play, and if you think getting "New player base" is a good when they're all just gonna get tunneled and camped by Undying Ruin, Infectious, NOED (Which is free), then it's kinda sad to think that's a gg. 🙄
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A post like this one shows who actually plays both sides relatively equally vs. those who've likely never played a killer round, or so few, you could count them on one hand.
I play about 50/50. My Survivor queue times are so long, the game should be renamed Lobby Simulator. The killer rounds I play are instant matches, no matter what time day or night. I'm into games so quickly that I can't even throw an offering up before I'm staring at the opposing team I'm facing. The number of people that would have to quit to completely reverse that would have to be a ridiculous number -- and obviously illogical, considering there have literally been dozens of other far more important things -- bugs, as a primary example -- that would have caused that type of exodus previously rather than a simple rework of a somewhat busted perk.
As is usually the case, not just in this game but in life in general, it's the very small minority that makes the most noise, but who do not represent the reasonable majority, who largely stay silent. As someone who plays a lot of Survivor (and runs DS in every game, and who'll continue to do so since I don't abuse the 2nd chance it gives me to play recklessly without consequences), anyone who wants to rage quit over something that only people that abuse the perk can complain about will only help the lobby times for the rest of us.
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"Killer main forum made change"
That does seem to be the new argument being made, right? Looking back at the pages where this change was discussed, it seems they went with the option most of the forum thought seemed fair, and I see many survivor mains who think it's a good change, but you want to stick to that line, eh?
So what is your change. Exactly what would you have done with DS? The "Survivor main forum made change" if you will.
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Lol it's barely a nerf at all. It's stops the perk being abused, and still acts as anti tunneling.
I'll gladly wait an extra 10 minutes for a match, if it means I no longer get the kind of survivor who would quit the game over this change.
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This thread is full of embarassing and vitriolic comments that are borderline histrionic.
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I think I’d believe you more if you knew how to spell.
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Ugh, the bullies are afoot. All I did was give opinion mate, everyone is getting their knickers in a twist out of this 😅 look, this idea was generated months back, youtubers like Scott and Tru all thought it was great (cause they main killer). Sure some survivors support this, doesnt mean it's a good change. It's just opinion right now.
It IS good they are making it less abused. What's not good is that the "Really balanced super good change" now involves the survivor wasting a perk slot on a perk that makes him do nothing for a minute. Yeah he COULD be tunneled. Can also be downed and plugged anyway. So it's so far same as before. Except now as soon as they get in any interaction, even if interrupted, it's gone. They cant save, cant cleanse, heal, interact with anything but a locker, which in return boosts Thanataphobia. Oni, Spirit. Which means killers can still effectively tunnel without worrying so much. Not to mention pig traps, bear traps, demo portals, can you interact with those? Which is NOT GOOD.
If they made it last 45 seconds, that you cant do gens but can still do totems, search chests for a heal item or at least rescue another teammate either hooked or slugged. OR if you fully healed. It might be better. As it stands, the only way for survivors to use this perk with this change is to be tunneled or run into the killer for the team. And not to mention if you miss. But hey, just an idea.
I dont like forum made changes because it's always too favoured to one side. Devs need to do their own ideas and stop using the forum. The people arent paid for it, it's not their job. Devs need to think these through for every scenario.
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I asked your opinion and now I'm a bully? Because I pointed out it wasn't as one sided as you want to claim? Ok. So
45 sec duration.
Allows totems and chests without breaking
Breaks when fully healed.
Breaks on gen
Do I have that right?
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Ooo actually is getting changed to. Be more healthy like i hope the devs go though with it
If they do.
There will be less bbq is op theards because new ooo means that if someone is getting hooked amd you see killers aura.. Bam you know they have bbq
You vault you see aura... Bam im all ears for definate
If anything needs to happen to any. Surv perk now. It may be a good idea to up distortion tokens so ooo doesn't render Jeff's only good perk doo doo
New ooo means that trapper can plant on cold wind and survs get info a win win for both sides
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"It was never said to be specifically anti-tunnel."
2019 DS redesign dev post:
"players were able to use DS a long time after being unhooked, where it no longer serves the purpose to protect you from being tunneled/ farmed"
Source: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/48381/design-decisive-strike
Little late to the party here but just thought I'd clear that up since I didn't see anyone else do it (unless I missed it). It was intended to be anti-tunnel/farm at the very least from the redesign.
Post edited by MrPenguin on5 -
As I said, I wouldn't want to play with such survivors in the first place be that as having them as my opponents or my team mates depending on the role I choose.
I don't mind trading in queue time for a healthier game. Take all the pleasure you want in the "misery" of others, but neither you nor any other survivor player quitting over something so banal will be missed.
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Not sure what point you're trying to make with this. Of course it would be nice for "weaker" perks to get buffed, but that's not the point of this discussion.
And yes, I do believe that a big problem of the DS malarky is the entitlement its users have about getting to use it in a trial.
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DS change is good.
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That's quite a whataboutism reply, but I'll humour it.
You may think this could be easily said, but I disagree on the basis that the sole reason these survivors will quit playing is because they lose the ability to abuse DS as a 60-second-immunity perk regardless of whether they're actually being tunnelled or not.
I don't see such an aspect with either Freddy or Spirit. Neither killer has a comparable mechanic that would allow them to ignore the progress survivors have made towards gen repairs and reset it back to zero, which would be the actual equivalent. Trying to compare DS to Ruin or even NOED is hilariously ridiculous. Guess what those two perks have that DS won't have until 4.6.0? Deactivation conditions. Talk about measuring with two different measuring sticks here.
And even if you turn it around, it changes nothing about my statement. People who take pleasure in the misery of others are never healthy for any game and them quitting will inevitably lead to a healthier game.
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If you can’t see that Decisive Strike needed the nerf, then you should play Killer at higher ranks. This clearly shows you don’t play Killer as much as Survivor, maybe not at all.
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That is true, but I remember another dev saying it was the community that called it an anti-tunnel perk and that it wasn't strictly what it was intended to be. I just know it will not be a decisive strike now because it is nowhere close to its narrative. It would be like sprint burst perk that doesn't really give you a sprint burst.
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Yes I know that post as well.
"The idea of it being purely to stop tunneling came from the community."
If we just take what they have said, it's not purely anti-tunnel, it is also anti-farm. Just from that alone they would line up. As far as I know that's all that's been said about it dev wise. Just might want to change wording next time since it has been said to be specifically anti-tunnel, just not only anti-tunnel.
I'm not sure what you mean by "its narrative". If you mean the perk name, it's not the only one in the game that its effect doesn't quite make sense with its name. But that's kinda silly to balance around. If you want to advocate to change the name then go ahead, I think that's fine.
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Still dont see how you reference this to me... as I've said it needs a change. Just not this change and not remain the same. Confusion 100 (@_@)
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Why would OoO change anything...? Its not a popular perk. Most people don't run it and not many people defend it either. Decisive? Sure. OoO? No.
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It's your attitude. The whole "You wanna stick to that line, eh?...Exactly what would you have done. The (survivor main forum made) if you will" just comes across condescending and patronising. So no hard feelings if you didnt mean to come across like that.
All I did was give a genuine reason as to why it was a bad fix and just because other survivors agree doesnt necessarily mean it's still a good change.
That change I gave is just one of many possibly better solutions as I feel that it will at least give survivors a choice to either fully heal and keep it for next hook, use it to buy team time or just start working on a gen and disregard it. Whereas with this change its "You've got a minute to do literally nothing. Either do nothing or deliberately run to the killer... which they WILL slug you cause they know so good luck using it. Now it's the same as before but you cant do anything while you have it." Which keep in mind, survivors are meant to PROGRESS THE GAME. Why use a perk that GRINDS THEM TO A HAULT?
Being tunneled makes no difference as you're slugged still anyway. If they paused timer to force killer to eat DS or dont tunnel. Would be better but again (Hardcore Tunneling is a legit strat). As it is, literally all the reward over risk goes to killer for that change.
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I get having it not break until fully healed, but chests and totems I disagree with. At the end of the day ds is active because you got caught and hooked. I do feel at that point as a second chance perk it is appropriate that taking actions to progress the match remove it. Especially as if you have the time to clear a totem, or start searching through chests you aren't really being tunneled.
As far as "buying the team time" why should you being hooked ever start a situation where time is bought for your side? It's not "do nothing or get slugged" it's more "this is there if you need it, but if you are safely unhooked and able to get back to progressing the game, you don't need it, so it's gone until next hook". Breaking totems progresses the game, so why should you be able to do so without risk?
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The one thing in need to remember about this game: No matter how good a survivor you are, you will always get caught. (Bloodlust). But no matter how bad you are a killer, you are guaranteed a kill. If you get a down before a gen pops and you camp and tunnel from start (depending on character) you are guaranteed 2 kills alone. That's not even considering if 1 kills themself immediately because they know they're not getting off. Now you can have 3 potential kills. And what if you close hatch and gate spawns were on the same wall tile or relatively close which is a 7/10 for me, you've now got 4 potential kills for nothing unless they have a key. But apparently its toxic and a definite encouragement to tunnel and camp if they bring a key. So survs lose out in a big way. And if they bring Unbreakable and Borrowed to deal with the camping, it's seen as even more toxic.
I get it, they often make reckless plays with no consequence, that needs to be addressed. But making DS turn you into a potato for 1 minute brings no benefit to anyone but killer. Sure you're not being tunneled but you're not able to interact with literally anything for a minute. The killer knows this and thinks, well, I dont have to worry about you for a minute (if they're holding the DS), if not its (oh, I can down them again with nothing they can do).
What they are doing with this now is going back on the word that DS is not an anti tunnel perk. Now they're saying "Oh, well... it is now". But they have not come up with a solution themself, they've lazily used "popular opinion perk" instead. And that is not a good thing.
I'm just saying, unless the other issues of slug snowball builds and all other balance wise are taken into account, you cant be making a survivor perk that brings more benefit to killer now is not a good way to go.
I've seen plenty of streamers use the likes of Oni with Sloppy, BBQ, Infectious and Tinkerer, Snowball everyone before 2 gens are done and as soon as Unbreakable gets up it's like "Uhh, free perks, totally outplayed". Its an arrogant attitude to these perks. They shouldnt be nerfing them to the degree that discourages its use. (Which this is now), They should be tweaking them to perform slightly differently in a more balanced way while maintaining its use.
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1. No, killers are never guaranteed a kill, I've played enough matches as both surviver and killer to know that's not the case, so why are you claiming it is? As far as the first part? Yes, if the chase goes on long enough the killer should ultimately almost always be able to catch you, that's why you have 3 teammates and they just have themselves. 1 on 1 should always give advantage to the solo team in any asymmetric game.
2. Honestly it seems like you don't play killer at all or if you do, it's in the lower ranks. Not meant as an insult, just how it comes off from the many assumptions you are making about how easy killer is. If it was as easy as your personal experience as a survivor made it out to be, there wouldn't be a killer in the rankings with under 75% kill percentage.
3. Several quotes have been listed from the dev team where DS is described as being an anti-tunnel anti-farm perk, so I don't see how they are going back on their word now.
4. DS changed how it is listed doesn't turn you into a potato for a minute unless you are of a mindset that is detrimental to your team. If you are safely unhooked, and are not actively being chased, refusing to do gens or totems or heal others is a choice you are making for yourself, because you want to keep ds active and not wait to see if you may actually need it. If you aren't being chased immediately off hook, you simply aren't being tunneled, and don't need the protection against tunneling.
5. I don't care what streamers do. They aren't real players, they are performers. I don't think any game should be balanced around what streamers do or say while they are performing for their audience, any more than I believe laws around fighting should be based on pro wrestling.
6. Personally I run WGLF, Kindred, inner strength and BT. I'm not great at loops, but have a good safe unhook percentage and rarely have to deal with NOED when playing solo survivor. Maybe if I ran DS I would be as attached to its current form, but I don't find myself tunneled enough to need it, even when I bring a key. (Though to be fair, if I'm playing with someone who is clearly better at staying off the hook, I'll give them my key)
7. what I have noticed with DS playing solo is a lot of people will go for unsafe unhooks and other bonehead plays because they seem to count on, and overestimate the protection it offers. The changes will stop that, which would make my survivor matches much more fun. When I'm playing killer I honestly don't care about DS, as if I see you do dumb stuff right off hook, I assume you have it, knock you down and set a timer on my phone to get you after it expires if you haven't been picked up first.
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So camping Bubba, Billy, no BT Freddy, other exposure or easily able to camp tunnel killers that make it near difficult to rescue if they're face camping... we're just gonna forget those exist? I can literally use Rancor for a free kill even if I do nothing all game 🤣 so yes... no matter how bad you are. You're garunteed at least 1 kill. End of.
Ok. Look at this point, it seems you're stuck of the opinion this DS isnt as big an issue as it really is. Which is fine, thats your opinion. I could argue till the sun comes about how I play more killer than survivor at rank 12 getting nothing but reds and smurf yellows with reds but i still know when something is not balanced for even sided gameplay,whatevs.
With this change, DS will be ruined to the point people wont want to use it and if they do, itll be simply countered the same way it's always been, and new players that have their experience ruined by it will leave. Unfortunately whether peopke see that fact or not is up to them. But as sensibility goes, this perk is getting bad treatment.
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Campers definitely exist. DS does nothing against camping, so I didn't think it was relevant. (As if you are playing a real camper, you aren't getting the unhook, safe or not, while he's squatting on the hook) I don't know how many times it's been said, but the counter to face camping killers isn't a perk, it's doing gens to pressure them away, and going for the unhook when they leave. If they don't leave, it just became an easy 3 escape match. (Which is losing for the killer)
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