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Saying "just do totems" to people who complain about NO ED is lazy and dumb advice that lacks nuance
Doing this in a SWF is easy as you can say how many totems have been done. On top of that, in the case of some hex perks like NO ED, you can 99% some gens or delay completing all gens until all totems are done to prevent it.
It's a different story in solo queue. You can't prevent anyone from doing generators no matter how much you try. Even if you are relatively familiar with totem spawns and are actively wanting to look for totems, you have no way of knowing how many are done by other survivors without individually checking where each totem is, wasting your time and pretty much not doing any objectives, particularly generators. Also, multiple maps have dreadful totem spawns that are difficult to find, particularly Swamp. On top of that, you still have many totem spots that cannot even be cleansed and they're glitched.
Even with Small Game and a map with add ons, you still have to roam around the map wasting so much unnecessary time that you might as well have done generators, so perks in particular don't help out that much in many scenarios. Detective's Hunch is awesome but not consistent unless the team gets generators done, and it's still a ######### situation to have to bring a perk dedicated to totems because of what I just said. It's like telling a killer player who doesn't like DS to play The Executioner if they don't like DS so much and to get over it. Or saying "just wait 60 seconds 🤪."
It's analogous to if there was a survivor perk that gave 25% bonus repair speed as long as there were breakable walls up and simply telling the killer "jUSt BreAk wAlls." For all you know they could have prove thyself and a good toolbox they found out of a chest. I don't understand how people don't get this.
Any time wasted not pressuring survivors is giving them free pressure on you, and the inverse is true as well: wasting time running around the map for several minutes doing totems is giving the killer free pressure.
It's just ######### advice that lacks any context. You're giving the killer free pressure for a perk they may or may not have, and in some cases it's not even worth trying to cleanse totems because of how the game is going. So when people complain about no ed and hex perks in general and just respond with a snarky response of "JuST dO tOtemS", it strikes me as actually not understanding the nuances of what they're talking about.
Comments
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Just leave the trial after you do gens
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No, no it does not, lack nuance that is. I play both Killer and Survivor, and better than 90% of my Survivor play is in the Solo que. There are only five Totems, and four Survivors. Every Survivor spots between 1-3 Totems as they move about the map. If they take a break from self-caring or urban evading about, they can spend the 16 seconds to cleanse at least one. This basic, commonsense behavior doesn't require the communication of the SWF's 5th Perk (Comms) to complete.
Can SWF do it easier? Sure, they can do everything easier, but that doesn't change the fact that Solo can manage it just fine. The reason there isn't more nuance in the solution/advice you are being given is because there are no other nuances that matter. You either do Bones or you don't. It is a gamble; you may profit from cutting them out of your time resources, or you might pay a heavy price. That is the same gamble a Killer takes when they bet one of their Perk slots on something that might be gone in the first twenty seconds of the game.
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Saying "Do Bones" is just a way to finally admit - Look, I'm tired of having this conversation about NOED. The conversation never goes anywhere and the most insightful topic about NOED has been the debate on whether BHVR should add a Totem Counter. Then that leads to should Dull Totems do something else and the conversation dies there. Every other topic about NOED is usually just a survivor biased player complaining that the killer utilized a perk in the roster when you can shut the perk down relatively easily and play around it. The only thing that usually makes this perk excel is when a survivor lacks map knowledge (Totem Spawns) or doesn't assume the killer might have an ace in the hole for later in this case being NOED.
Personally, I have all totem spawns memorized - Yes I actually do. On occasion a rare spot surprises me but I usually have all totems cleansed by the time the 3rd or 4th generator is done. Doing totems is just understanding a balance of map movement, when you need to hop on a generator and when you need to do a totem. From experience the real problem is a lack of time because some survivors have zero idea how to run the killer. The weak link on your team is usually why NOED gets utilized not because totems are hard to find. If a survivor goes down under normal circumstances in under 30 seconds for example they have pretty much likely cost your entire team the game. To me this is a survivor issue not a perk issue.
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I don't get what significance you citing playing both sides has...it's irrelevant for the most part.
The problem with your solution is that many people in solo queue don't bother doing totems, even in red ranks. I used to run detective's hunch/small game as my general build and 90% of the time I was the only one doing at least 3/5 totems and most of the time all 5, and I typically did not do them fast, either.
The issue isn't so much the words behind "just do bones" but the sass behind it. It lacks context of actually playing the game, because playing solo queue everyone can witness the lack of quality of teammates. If they suck in looping, aren't efficient on gens, and do dumb saves and whatnot, what suddenly is going to compel them to do totems? Right: nothing. They should know, but they don't, so your explanation is hypothetical and not actually realistic. If it was realistic, undying+ruin would be a non issue as totems could be knocked out relatively fast.
I can easily say to someone who doesn't like DS "just wait 60 seconds" because that genuinely is the counter. But there's obviously more nuance behind the annoyance of DS, and similar in this instance.
I don't see what past NO ED discussions have on my topic.
I'm not sure if you actually read my OP because I already discussed what you talk about. Memorising totem spawns help, but that doesn't alleviate the problem of solo queue that people very often do not do totems, hence why undying was such an issue. Not doing generators is giving the killer free pressure. On top of that, memorising totem spawns isn't precise; they can spawn in a variety of areas, especially on some maps that have multi-levels.
Also again, you seemed to actually have not read what I said, because if you did I did not discuss about the perk needing to be removed or whatever. It was talking about how in solo queue people do not do generators and as a result you (the player who actually cares about totems) trying to do them gets punished as a result (giving the killer free pressure).
Like thanks for the response but if you're actually going to engage in the conversation I would appreciate actually reading the subject. You pretty much reiterated a lot of what I already said and it's not a rebuttal to anything I said in actuality. Like you talk about it being a survivor issue and if you actually read what I said...I pretty much exclusively talk about survivors making it worse, not talking about how the perk functions itself.
Really wonky people are giving thumbs up to responses that show the person didn't read more than two sentences of my op lol
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I did read the topic but I assessed it as the following
- You don't like that NOED forces you to waste time looking for totems when they are potentially cleansed or not already
- You're not even sure if the killer has NOED
- You feel it uses too much time just in general
Is that a correct assessment?
If so then that's why I basically stated
- It's a survivor problem due to lack of experience whether it be the person looking for totems or someone who should be distracting the killer for you to properly search for totems.
Would you say this is correct?
To address one thing - Not being sure if the killer even has NOED. How should you be sure about any of their perks? You generally have to figure it out based on how the killer plays. For example Blood Warden, HEX: Devour Hope, Pop Goes The Weasel and Nurse's Calling are a few examples of perks that you shouldn't know exist but you can generally figure out a killer has them based on how they play and through process of elimination on other likely perks. I feel this isn't a problem granted of all the perks I will give you this - NOED is the most exhausting to deal with when it turns out the killer didn't have it.
In fact here I'll give you a bigger tl;dr
This is a survivor issue - If it isn't you it's the weak link on your team or someone else being useless. You could very much say yes the solo survivor issue you stated is correct but ultimately I've played enough that this can be an issue in SWF's as well. Not every SWF is a tryhard squad and they have weak links too.
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Heh. I know you don't get the significance of why I cited it, but then again you are still relatively new. To get truly good at Killer or Survivor you have to play BOTH. You have to see the maps and objectives from both perspectives, and Totems in particular require this context to understand them. And when I say you have to play both, I mean you have to play both for extended periods of time. This isn't a game where things come natural. You have to pay your dues, and learn your lessons. There is no way around it, period.
I want to point out, again, that everything you said back to me illustrates SURVIVOR problems, not issues with Totems. Bad teammates are just that, bad. It isn't game design flaw. It is the game. This is a 4v1 challenge, and you are only as good as your weakest link. You either:
- Start playing in a SWF to make use of their 5th Perk (Comms)
- Or you keep playing until your few, proud Solos get to the point where they are worth something.
For the record, GOOD Solos are amazing, and often far better than SWF Players who got to where they are carried on the backs of others. It is about paying those dues. The best loopers, evaders, aggro-style manipulators, and so on all come from the crucible of the Solo Que. Some of them may play in SWF from time to time, but they cut their teeth the hard way. I play Solo most games because it is harder, and I want to get better. When I play with my friends, it is fun and all, but I don't improve. I only get better at information management, not actual applied skills. Do you follow?
In the end, everything I'm telling you is moot if you don't WANT to hear it. You will either accept this is the game, adapt, and fight the good fight or you won't. There is no magic bullet. The DEV aren't going to fix it because it isn't broken. The nature of this game is the 4v1 and the strength of the Survivors is also potentially their greatest weakness. You have stated it in your own words, clearly illustrating the failure is on the part of Survivors in the matches that trouble you. Do you see my point?
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For heaven's sake, just do the bones
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Oversimplification, and not my point.
I highlighted how even when memorising totem spawns, you are still not doing the foremost objective: doing generators. You are giving the killer free pressure for a perk they may or may not have.
Survivors do not do totems either in my experience. Having to manually check each totem is wasting even more time as you don't know how many totems were done in solo queue.
The conversation is not about should NO ED be changed. It's about the sassy response of "just do totems" when it's not always, and often not that simple, particularly in solo queue. The response in and of itself is not inherently sassy but when people complain about NO ED and whatnot and get mocked at as if it's their individual fault not all five totems were done when it's meant to be a team experience, and it's often not. That's my point.
Similar logic of "just do bones" can be applied to killers have ire about DS. I can simply say "just wait 60 seconds" or "eat the ds so they don't have it anymore". That's technically the solution to DS as killer, just as "just do bones" is to survivor, but as we can very clearly see the conversation around DS was more nuanced than that because it actually is simple as "wait 60 seconds or eat ds" in every single game.
Your response isn't really rebutting or sharing new information either, as I basically already stated survivor teammates in solo queue are a very large part of the problem. There was no discussion about NO ED as a perk, and I'm not sure why you brought that up in your first response.
Lastly, my point about "not sure if they have it or not" is that it's wasting time for something that should be a simple team effort, but often is not. It's not a complaint about not knowing the killer's perks. Sometimes it's easy to tell if a killer has NO ED or not, and sometimes when I presume a killer has NO ED, they actually don't.
The point is simply to highlight how "just do totems" is not that simple when you are often in contact with teammates who never do them and you are pretty much subjected to doing almost all of them if not all yourself, on top of having to do every other objective like save/heal/do generators and strategise. Because if "just do totems" is going to be infantilised to such a degree then I'm going to pretty much just say "wait 60 seconds" to anyone who complains about DS because the counter is easy on paper.
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So now you are saying the point of this thread isn't the issue of Totems or bad Survivors, but rather that you don't like the simple, straightforward "Do Bones" response because you feel belittled by it? You need to thicken your skin. Of all the things to waste a thread on, this has to be one of the most lame I've seen. People say "Do Bones" simply because that is the ANSWER. There is no other. The shortest distance is always a straight line. You don't like the answer because it isn't an easy answer, it allows no room to deflect blame. It is either you do the work or you don't.
I always write long, thorough essays. I rarely just say "Do Bones" alone because I like the sound of my own voice. :) Or, at least that is what most people believe. The truth is I'm my own harshest critic and agonize over every typo or mistake in grammar I make. I probably should just say "Do Bones" whenever I see posts like yours, because wasting time on explaining it to some of you is very frustrating. Why? You made your decision before you even wrote your post. You are looking for excuses. I hate to say this, because I'd rather think the best of everyone, but you are arguing with us simply because you are being willfully ignorant.
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Your response isn't really rebutting or sharing new information either, as I basically already stated survivor teammates in solo queue are a very large part of the problem.
To be honest same goes for you - Nothing new is being said and that's why I mentioned the first part of my post. Nothing new is being discussed and I'm giving it to you straight.
To clarify
First part of my post addresses the mentality you made the thread with
Second part addresses and summarizes the actual context of your post.
In fact I'll quote @Moundshroud above
I probably should just say "Do Bones" whenever I see posts like yours, because wasting time on explaining it to some of you is very frustrating. Why? You made your decision before you even wrote your post. You are looking for excuses. I hate to say this, because I'd rather think the best of everyone, but you are arguing with us simply because you are being willfully ignorant.
If this wasn't the intention I'll be honest with you that's the immediate impression I got from your thread. Which is again why the first part of my post is there otherwise it would have just been the second paragraph with possibly more parts to it.
Similar logic of "just do bones" can be applied to killers have ire about DS. I can simply say "just wait 60 seconds" or "eat the ds so they don't have it anymore". That's technically the solution to DS as killer, just as "just do bones" is to survivor, but as we can very clearly see the conversation around DS was more nuanced than that because it actually is simple as "wait 60 seconds or eat ds" in every single game.
Yeah? So what's the problem. If you suspect they have Decisive Strike then wait the 60 seconds?
The real issue with Decisive Strike wasn't even 60 seconds of no hooking it was the fact that the perk was far more abuseable when BHVR is intending for it to be an anti tunneling perk. If you're doing objectives you're not getting tunneled but some survivors will use this to make sure the killer can't build up momentum. Do I see it as fair strategy? Yes. However I feel you don't fully understand the difference between those two perks.
With NOED you can prevent it from activating in the first place.
With Decisive Strike you have to constantly respect that a survivor may have the perk unless there are no obsessions. You could argue that in a way it's easier to play around this way compared to NOED which has no tell but again you can generally tell based on what killer is being played and how they're playing. This comes with experience.
The better comparison was recently Pop Goes The Weasel's timer was nerfed because killers had too much time to do other things and still use it when that's been the issue with DS this whole time.
See unlike a lot of people I have no issue playing around perks or the idea that they may be in the game. It's just understanding the current meta as stale as it is and knowing the game. This is really a black and white issue of -
Do totems - If that's not working likely your team or yourself isn't pulling enough weight.
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Your condescension is boring. I don't even know you either but yet you're acting like you do. The way people try to act elitist on this game is...something.
My topic isn't founded on being a totem problem in the slightest. Yes, very obviously I wrote the issue with totems is from other survivors, not on the mechanics of how totems work. That changes nothing about what I said.
Elaborate to me where I said it was totem issues? The only thing that comes close to that is totem glitches, which are rare, and that was far from being my central point, and it's an irrelevant addition.
I also never said totems need to be reworked or anything. Never said the devs need to fix it either.
You're trying to make this hard-to-swallow advice but you're doing nothing but reiterating what I said and then slapping a "this is going to be difficult for you" vibe to it, which is a bit pretentious.
People still are not understanding the prime topic at hand. I'll requote myself:
The conversation is not about should NO ED be changed. It's about the sassy response of "just do totems" when it's not always, and often not that simple, particularly in solo queue. The response in and of itself is not inherently sassy but when people complain about NO ED and whatnot and get mocked at as if it's their individual fault not all five totems were done when it's meant to be a team experience, and it's often not. That's my point.
I'm used to solo queue teammates being trite. There's nothing to adapt to. Doesn't mean I can't complain about it.
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Yeah yeah we've heard this about a million times at this point and we all know it's false. "Only easy and valid in swf. Hard and invalid for solo." Just move on and find something else to complain about.
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The response isn't new because I'm simply stating you're not bringing in any new information and reiterating what I said. You responded to my thread initially with a mix of irrelevant information and then paraphrased information of what I already said, and bringing no new discussion points.
Saying "Do Bones" is just a way to finally admit - Look, I'm tired of having this conversation about NOED. The conversation never goes anywhere and the most insightful topic about NOED has been the debate on whether BHVR should add a Totem Counter. Then that leads to should Dull Totems do something else and the conversation dies there. Every other topic about NOED is usually just a survivor biased player complaining that the killer utilized a perk in the roster when you can shut the perk down relatively easily and play around it. The only thing that usually makes this perk excel is when a survivor lacks map knowledge (Totem Spawns) or doesn't assume the killer might have an ace in the hole for later in this case being NOED.
First of all, you aren't in any place to tell me what my intentions are for making the thread. Let's discuss the rest:
- You being tired of the conversation is irrelevant
- Your opinion of "it doesn't go anywhere" of other NO ED topics is irrelevant
- bringing up totem counter when I never talked about that
- bringing up other alternatives to what dull totems to do which I never talked about that
- brought up "survivor bias" when I never blamed killer players for anything and I purely blamed survivors
So what are you on mate? You judged erroneously based on past NO ED topics.
If this wasn't the intention I'll be honest with you that's the immediate impression I got from your thread. Which is again why the first part of my post is there otherwise it would have just been the second paragraph with possibly more parts to it.
Let's see here: you co-sign a post calling me ignorant but yet you lot did nothing but reiterate what I already said. Interesting.
Also not sure what excuses you're talking about...? What I wrote is pretty simple but it seems like you lot are having a hard time understanding, and you're superimposing irrelevant information for whatever reason
You talk about me not understanding what the perks are, yet you are slapping BS about DS. Devs never said it was intended to be anti-tunnel:
Mind you, this was in response to a thread titled: "Have the devs confirmed ds is supposed to be a "anti tunnel perk"?"
I made my point simple, and you lot are talking about something else that's pretty irrelevant and I'm about done trying to parse through it since my point is pretty easy to understand. I will requote what I said as a summary of the general topic:
The conversation is not about should NO ED be changed. It's about the sassy response of "just do totems" when it's not always, and often not that simple, particularly in solo queue. The response in and of itself is not inherently sassy but when people complain about NO ED and whatnot and get mocked at as if it's their individual fault not all five totems were done when it's meant to be a team experience, and it's often not. That's my point.
And topics are repeated all the time on this forum. I'm going to talk about what I feel like, not my problem if you have an issue with it.
You can move on and go to another thread and complain about something else instead of being snippy about a topic you don't like. The irony of complaining about complaining.
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@kyogul I wasn't being bitchy. I was just saying we've seen this same post a million times at this point. Instead of making everything sound like a complaint how about you just read the freaking comment like a normal human being. Thank you and have a nice day.
I don't care that it's repeated, I just meant (in a really weird way) you shouldn't expect to get more people on your side of the argument when you aren't bringing any new information to the table. Repeating the same information isn't going to get you anywhere.
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Damn this title is ironic.
No dude, the people who refuse to do totems and complain about NOED are lazy & dumb. I'm a solo survivor main and if I can find the time to focus hexes/dull totems, you can too. You're either entitled af, lazy or dumb. Take your pick. Do the totems and then you won't have to worry as much, at least you'll know you did what you could to nullify NOED.
At lower ranks, yea I'd say its a lot harder to counter NOED. At high ranks (red), you have no excuse.
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They could be all 3
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Not sure why my other post was deleted but apparently it's still readable (?). I'll give it some time and retype part of it maybe
You were being quite snippy, and for no good reason.
I don't care how many times you've seen it. Topics are repeated all the time on this forum and in the community in general. I'm going to talk about what I feel like and if you don't like it then move on. You didn't do that and instead tried to be patronising and catty, meanwhile failing to realise your irony of complaining about complaining.
What you initially said isn't indicative of your supposed point in the slightest. Either way, the conversation wasn't about getting people on my side, it was more of a brain dump and then discuss.
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Gotcha, then I'll also call the people who complain about DS and get pissed off because of it lazy, dumb, and entitled because when I play in red ranks I never have an issue with it and I can easily avoid it. If I can avoid it, everyone else can too and they shouldn't have a problem because I said so and my experience superimposes everyone else's.
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Well devs said just do bones...
It's a side objective it's fine as is, I solo q and I'm usually the only one doing totems, but every now and then I find broken totems on the floor... That's how u count totems on solo q....
If u can't see broken totems then maybe u shouldn't play this game competitively and complain?
And no u have enough time to search for totems while doing gens, just don't gen rush and look around the gen, that's where the totems are most of the time, rest of them u should find on the way to another gen
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DS is abuseable. Thats why its getting nerfed. The only ones who are complaining about this nerf are bad survivors who relied on it as a crutch and abused it. Not even in the same ball park as destroying dull totems in preparation for NOED. If you want to focus gens and dive bombing your teammates for easy points, you do that. But if you get to end-game and NOED pops up, you have no one to blame but yourself as well as your teammates.
Hell, there's been plenty of games where NOED has popped on my team, while 1 person gets hooked, and the 3 of us remaining go back in despite being right at the Exit gates, to find the totem and possibly save the teammate.
Doing dull totems throughout an entire match vs complaining about DS, a broken perk that people loved to abuse, particularly in SWF, are not the same.
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I don't think you understood the analogy. And you're misinterpreting. Comparing =/= equating.
Your post was basically "if I can do it and you can't then you're entitled/lazy/dumb" and I can say the same about anything else, and I chose DS as an example. DS is a non issue for me in red ranks. Other perks are however, DS isn't one of them.
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"Do bones" is not for one person but all 4 survivors to do. that is the fallacy you and others have. the TEAM needs to do bones and it's quick. hey ran past a totem, take 12 seconds to drop it and then you're on the gen right next to it. 4 people do this only one other totem needs be done and it'll be fine. what you see as lazy is actually lazy mental processing of what is needed because the term "Just Do Bones" is directed at the 4 person survivor team not you....
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Noed is fine, its weak, only happens at the end of a match not to mention it isn't even that common. I'm sure you or someone has used ds as an example which was used every damn game by multiple people and could be used most of the trial. Noed really isn't a big deal, get totems or wait till noed pops then get the totem or leave, bothers you so much then run a perk or something to get totems. There comes a time when you need to learn to counter it yourself, give up your meta perk slots or just straight up deal with it and accept Escaping isn't important, doesn't show skill or even mean anything
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And I'm voicing my opinion of why is this still a topic when we know the answer already. Regardless of if you're solo or swf, you know what a totem looks like and if you aren't in danger and there's a possibility of NOED you also know how to break it. I've had swf games where we got hit with NOED because we didn't know the location of the last totem. I've also had complete solo q games where we got all 5 totems and NOED didn't activate (Killer had noed according to end screen). The argument of "It's too hard for solo but it's so easy for swf" is ridiculous and dumb. That's my opinion.
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There was an idea I saw and it said expose everyone when NoEd is activated and I feel like that's the only tweak NoEd needs
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Survivors have like 3 or 4 perks that make NOED a none issue. Instead of using the perks, they choose to take the second chance perks.
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That's precisely my point. And what I said here:
The conversation is not about should NO ED be changed. It's about the sassy response of "just do totems" when it's not always, and often not that simple, particularly in solo queue. The response in and of itself is not inherently sassy but when people complain about NO ED and whatnot and get mocked at as if it's their individual fault not all five totems were done when it's meant to be a team experience, and it's often not. That's my point.
To clarify, when I said "...and it's often not", I meant in regards to doing totems is not a team experience when there's only one person predominately doing them, at least in my experience. Not that doing totems in general is not supposed to be a team experience.
I'm confused? Already when NO ED is activated it makes any living survivor exposed
tbh you don't even need perks honestly. I only find people are a little more incentivised to do totems if there's a hex before the gens are done, particularly if it's ruin
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Yeah but it will visually show you that you're exposed. Rather than waiting until someone is hit to let them know they're exposed
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The response isn't new because I'm simply stating you're not bringing in any new information and reiterating what I said. You responded to my thread initially with a mix of irrelevant information and then paraphrased information of what I already said, and bringing no new discussion points.
As everyone has already told you there's nothing new to bring to the table. Topic has been discussed to death since 2016. The reply was pretty relevant considering the attitude you had and still have you just can't accept it.
First of all, you aren't in any place to tell me what my intentions are for making the thread
It's not my fault your post comes off as someone whose only posting to argue for the sake of arguing. Even in your later post you outright say this thread is about people who say "Do Bones" rather than NOED itself. At that point this thread is you complaining about other players which at that point no it really doesn't have a purpose you just need to get thicker skin.
You being tired of the conversation is irrelevant
If you understood properly this is referring to the common response of "Do Bones"
Your opinion of "it doesn't go anywhere" of other NO ED topics is irrelevant
If you've been here long enough you'd realize it's true - Look at the countless threads about this topic and you'll realize that in fact yes they go no where because people don't know how to put their ego aside.
bringing up totem counter when I never talked about that
bringing up other alternatives to what dull totems to do which I never talked about that
Explaining to you what this conversation usually devolves to - Something that should have been a brief post but again you want to argue for the sake of arguing
brought up "survivor bias" when I never blamed killer players for anything and I purely blamed survivors
Again - Explaining to you why this topic is usually dismissed.
So what are you on mate? You judged erroneously based on past NO ED topics.
Based on how you post I feel I judged correctly
I'll just assume you've had a bad day and you can assume I've had one - As I've said though..
The real answer here is do bones and if that doesn't work someone on your team wasn't pulling their weight. Regarding being offended at the idea of being told to do bones you shouldn't. It's never meant to be a personal slight against you specifically it's literally just people getting so tired of the same 3 varying topics about NOED. This has been an ongoing debate since 2016 to the point where there is genuinely nothing left to add. You can't just go comparing one thing to another either because one game mechanic does not =/= another. A good example is when you brought up breakable walls in your OP. Doing this is just going to set expectations for yourself that cannot be met.
I do genuinely want you to enjoy the game like I want everyone to. However I'll tell you stop taking such statements to heart because they're not meant to be personal slights. If you feel you can't handle it turn off chat, ignore the forums and enjoy time to yourself or with friends. There's no hidden meaning behind that either I'm genuine when I say that.
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I always wonder...i play solo survivor 100% of the time, and in most games i get 5 totems done alone if needed. And it doesnt even take to much time, because i do gens, and when i move to the next one, i just check the totem spots on the tile i am on and the tile i move to. Then i do the same after that gen is done. When only one gen is left, i start searching the remaining totems. Yes, it wastes some time, but thats the purpose of that perk. It is meant to slow you down or get punished for ignoring it.
I just dont get the "it cant be done in solo"-mentality when i can do it perfectly fine on a regular basis. Am i that extraordinare as a survivor?
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Doing totems is the correct response.
Problem is that unless all survivors do it it doesn't work. And most survivors seem to be content with being mediocre.
For solo i recommend cleansing 1 or 2 totems near the exit gates and remembering the location of the rest you see.
Cleansing one totem and spotting 2 is already a 50% chance to find noed for a mere 16 seconds of work and assuming the rest of your team doesn't do anything.
If I would make a change to Noed i would give it an ability that helps the killer but also notifies the survivors that it's in play.
Something like screaming when you touch a dull totem or something.
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Well, tbh the totems have basic spawning areas all over the map where they default go..It is up to you in the end to find them all before noed goes off or when It does.
Look beyond this point no one really has a idea of how to fix Noed without just screaming It should not have expose in the very last minutes of the game when all gens are done..Yet no one who complains about It wants to give It a effect worth. well, having only 3 perks active in a trial for most the game.
Me? I would It not make It a hex but token based around the amount of survivors left by the end (1 to 4) and spend tokens to do effects
Hit a exit gate switch locks the other gate forever and the entity blocks the open gate for a set amount of time. For 2 tokens
Hitting a survivor auto downs them. But, effects them with "NOED wraith" For the rest of the match, you can no longer use perks No, Dead hard, no borrowed time no nothing..For 1 token.
If you find a open gate for 1 token you can call the Entity to block It for a set amount of time and survivors in that area get the "Expose effect" for 20 seconds.
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"You talk about me not understanding what the perks are, yet you are slapping BS about DS. Devs never said it was intended to be anti-tunnel:
Mind you, this was in response to a thread titled: "Have the devs confirmed ds is supposed to be a "anti tunnel perk"?"
Yeah but no, already answer to this in another thread :
I don't know where you find that info but Dev have always stated that DS was an Anti-tunnel perk, at least since his rework in early 2019....
QUESTION: WHAT LED TO THE DECISION TO PUT THE TIMER ON DECISIVE STRIKE?
Horvath: We decided to put a timer on Decisive Strike as one of the solutions to Decisive Strike being used too often, we tried 2 minutes internally and found that players were able to use DS a long time after being unhooked, where it no longer serves the purpose to protect you from being tunneled/ farmed
Also :
Horvath: I feel like borrowed time and Decisive Strike serve a similar purpose, but DS is controlled by the person on the hook, whereas Borrowed Time requires a teammate to run it and unhoo k you.
You quote a community manager, I quote a game designer, who you think know better ?
As for NOED, almost never used it and it was when I start playing, with experience and playing against good player you quickly understand its not worth the slot. NOED is not as strong as other OS perks like make your choice, dragons grip, rancor... Cause it have a ez counter (yeah I know, you don't like the DB! sentences but its a fact). NOED is kinda like facecamping, it may grant you a kill but you loose in the big picture, and except maybe for some kids or noobs, its not a win, just a less frustrating L.
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I think that's how it works in general with the exposed status though in regards to perks? Or I may be wrong. I know it is like that for Devour Hope.
I think it's also meant to be an element of surprise in regards to perks. Like for Rancour, the auras you get before the last generator is done tells you that you're affected by it. But ones like NO ED and Devour Hope have no indicator otherwise.
As everyone has already told you there's nothing new to bring to the table. Topic has been discussed to death since 2016. The reply was pretty relevant considering the attitude you had and still have you just can't accept it.
Uhm...no. I never refuted whatever you said about past NO ED topics. I simply said it was irrelevant to mine. How other people discussed the topic is irrelevant. You can't accept that and you brought up irrelevant talking points as a result.
It's not my fault your post comes off as someone whose only posting to argue for the sake of arguing. Even in your later post you outright say this thread is about people who say "Do Bones" rather than NOED itself. At that point this thread is you complaining about other players which at that point no it really doesn't have a purpose you just need to get thicker skin.
And so what if it does? If I want to talk about something I will discuss it.
I also love how "getting thicker skin" is a rebuttal to a topic you don't like. You're in my thread complaining about complaining and this is your advice. Lol. I'm vocal about what I don't like and people may think I'm a hard ass for that reason and that's their take, but that's actually not the case. Also, getting "thicker skin" isn't a case here as I'm not offended nor upset.
This community complains all the time. People complain all the time. You're complaining now about the content of my thread. Christ on a clutch this community really has this back and forth relationship between toxic negativity and toxic positivity.
If you understood properly this is referring to the common response of "Do Bones"
That wasn't clear in your response then. Let's take a look:
Saying "Do Bones" is just a way to finally admit - Look, I'm tired of having this conversation about NOED
This seemed like it was meant to be one sentence, and not to. "...to finally admit" looks rather incomplete, and the dash looked like it was meant to interrupt what you were saying.
If you've been here long enough you'd realize it's true - Look at the countless threads about this topic and you'll realize that in fact yes they go no where because people don't know how to put their ego aside.
As I said before, I don't think you understand what I'm saying. I'm not refuting whatever you said about NO ED topics never going anywhere or whatever. I simply said it was irrelevant to my topic and subsequently you responding to me.
Explaining to you what this conversation usually devolves to - Something that should have been a brief post but again you want to argue for the sake of arguing
That wasn't for the sake of arguing, it was because irrelevant points were bringing up. I don't care what NO ED topics were like before. I don't care what is normally said. It is irrelevant.
Again - Explaining to you why this topic is usually dismissed.
An even more irrelevant point, particularly when I BLAME survivors? What is the point of bringing up tripe that's not even in my thread?
How is this survivor biased when I'm basically talking shite about other survivors and not saying one bad thing about killers, let alone the perk itself?
Why bring up totem counters when I never did?
Those things being mentioned in other NO ED threads is irrelevant. Irrelevant =/= Non existent. Again, I never said or implied what you were saying above isn't true. I simply said it is irrelevant.
I'll just assume you've had a bad day and you can assume I've had one - As I've said though..
No my day's been fine. Made some birria and it came out pretty well and I'm satisfied with it.
The real answer here is do bones and if that doesn't work someone on your team wasn't pulling their weight. Regarding being offended at the idea of being told to do bones you shouldn't. It's never meant to be a personal slight against you specifically it's literally just people getting so tired of the same 3 varying topics about NOED. This has been an ongoing debate since 2016 to the point where there is genuinely nothing left to add. You can't just go comparing one thing to another either because one game mechanic does not =/= another. A good example is when you brought up breakable walls in your OP. Doing this is just going to set expectations for yourself that cannot be met.
I do genuinely want you to enjoy the game like I want everyone to. However I'll tell you stop taking such statements to heart because they're not meant to be personal slights. If you feel you can't handle it turn off chat, ignore the forums and enjoy time to yourself or with friends. There's no hidden meaning behind that either I'm genuine when I say that.
It wasn't about being a personal slight, and it also wasn't to say that everyone who says "just do bones" means it this way, but in my other discussions about this topic and observing past ones, I saw many people saying "just do bones" or something of those lines pointing to individual blame. It's not about being offended or whatever but I think when people say it in that manner it is lacking nuance.
I've not been on this forum long, and I've seen already the same topics over again. DS bad, swf bad, comms bad, survivor bad, killer bad, so on. People complain about the same stuff over and over again on this game and this forum isn't an exception, so I don't know why NO ED is of special interest to the repetition.
The comparison was for an analogy, and comparing isn't equivalent to equating. The analogy was to point out how, especially alone, doing totems is not always that simple without some sort of cost.
I did not make this topic over being offended about someone saying this to me. I can't remember how long ago it was, but it's been a while, and I didn't even think about that until reading this tidbit from you. I simply wanted to talk about it for potential clarification, but primarily for a mind dump since it made no sense to me. I don't like saying this simply because I don't like using it as an excuse or whatever but I do have autism and so the way you interpreted what I wrote is likely very different than how I did for potentially that reason, maybe others.
I do appreciate the kind words though. Also I will clarify with my response to Nossy I was wrong on what I said and I stand corrected on that, and I apologise that I was too aggressive earlier. I sometimes get carried away with my internet warrior face.
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It's not that it can't be done, but I find it particularly troublesome in solo queue for a variety of reasons. There were many times I did four totems for example, hoping my team did the last one, only to get slapped with NO ED, but I had to go do other objectives instead of looking for the last totem, such as needing to rush a gen due to the circumstance of the game/needing to do a save/etc.
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You quote a community manager, I quote a game designer, who you think know better ?
Evidently not me, I stand corrected.
As for NOED, almost never used it and it was when I start playing, with experience and playing against good player you quickly understand its not worth the slot. NOED is not as strong as other OS perks like make your choice, dragons grip, rancor... Cause it have a ez counter (yeah I know, you don't like the DB! sentences but its a fact). NOED is kinda like facecamping, it may grant you a kill but you loose in the big picture, and except maybe for some kids or noobs, its not a win, just a less frustrating L.
What is DB? database?
I agree generally, and I see the very casual players use it since their perks tend to not be so great and NO ED is the strongest. Or they may not be that good so they think they need it to potentially win. Ironically the only killer I really think NO ED potentially works well on is Deathslinger (so far).
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When I asked who know better, it was between the 2 different answer, not me or you^^ I tend to think someone who design the game know why a mechanics is created for better than a community manager. Its not a player like me or you who should decide or assume what is it suppose to do.
DB was for the Do bones ! that a lot of people love to throw at hex complainant to end a discussion, I don't like it either cause I can understand that for new players or uncoordinated teams it can be hard to cleanse the five before doing all the gens and I'll not be bother if they had a totem count visible for both sides which could help.
NOED is like a placebo for new killers who think the game as killers can be resume as killing survivors, thoughts its true thats is the ultimate goal, preventing survivors to do their objectives is far more effective and 3 hooking each survivors and ultimately killing them before all gens are done is way more rewarding and give the feeling of a real win (And the game points/pip system show that thats how the game is supposed to be played as killers, if you get 1 or 2 late kills with NOED past rank 10, you barely safe pip while you will pip with 2 kills and 6-8 hooks).
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To be true, it does happen to me too, although very rarely.
However, that is not the problem with the perk, its a problem with your teammates. If you do 80% of that job, and they cant be bothered to do the last 20%, i dont think its the problem of the task at hand.
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Personally I just take the responsibility of doing bones if its a killer i think has a high probability of using noed or if I know they have a totem active. I dont mind it that much. I typically run small game just to find them a lot easier. Doing bones with that is fine for me personally
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Just do bones.
And bring inner strength. That way even if they don't have NOED, you are getting a benefit of a free heal, which is great in solo where you can't always count on one from your team.
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Do bones or go home.
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Seriously though. These always go the same way. I know you feel like you are bringing a fresh argument, but after 4 years I don't think there is one to be had. NOED went from a perk that couldn't be stopped, to one that could be taken out before it has a chance to activate. That's a huge change
The argument that in solo you can't depend on your team to do the secondary objective has been brought up multiple times, hell from the threads made today it seems these days you can't even count on them to do the primary objective. Fact is, that's the best argument to make NOED hurt more if it activates, or add more dull totem based killer perks, to teach new survivors about the risks of leaving the bones untouched.
If you don't want to cleanse each one, or feel like you don't have the time, then spot and remember, then if NOED activates you can check each spot and just clean the glowing one, once again completely taking that perk out of the match.
A lot of people recommend small game or detective's hunch, I prefer inner strength for my totem slot as survivor, because I play solo a lot and find a free heal to be a really useful perk. The totems aren't hard to see at all in the reworked maps, so tracking them via perk is going to be less and less useful each patch.
I understand "just do bones" sounds condescending, but after 4 years there just isn't another answer, you either cleanse the dulls, or you see NOED pop up. If it helps red ranks hardly ever use it, because they consider the game lost when 5 gens are powered up.
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If sweaty survivor teams have time to run around, body block, flash light flicker , loop and all that stuff then they have time to do totems...and should. It's become a game of just looping now ..survs need to work on more things to win instead of goofing around .
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Technically speaking you don't need to get rid of all the dull totems, you just need to get rid of the one that lights up after the last gen is finished. Run Detective's Hunch, do some bones if they're convenient through the match, then when the last gen pops, look around and memorize the locations of the remaining totems. If NOED activates hunt down the totem, otherwise continue as normal.
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Devour Hope and No Ed show you're exposed when you get hit. Rancor shows you as soon as the last gen pops. I'm wondering how much harder that would be to add for No Ed?
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hilariously you can say the exact same thing when it comes to "don't tunnel" and "don't slug" when DS and Unbreakable inevitably enter the discussion, both arguments are stupid and lack nuance, the only difference is which side is saying them
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No i was aware of what you meant, it was poking fun at myself
NO ED is what I would call the killer's blue shell of the game. For survivors, it would be DS and maybe unbreakable.
I'm aware. I never blamed the perk. Not sure why people are insisting I am
This is what I don't get. This community talks about the same things always. DS, OoO, comms bad, swf bad, dcing bad, so on. It's the same tired topics all the time and I don't understand why I'm not allowed to talk about a previously-discussed topic but everyone else is. Also I never claimed that my talking point was original either.
"do bones" in and of itself is not condescending but I noticed in particular it being used in some ways towards individuals complaining about hexes as if it is their individual fault. Again not saying this is what it means in general, I'm just talking about a particular instance.
I like the element of surprise honestly. And I think that's the purpose behind it showing in such a way. If rancour didn't show auras before the last generator activated then I also think it would show the exposed status upon being hit too.
Yea that was why I brought up the DS comparison and people didn't seem to get it for some reason. But when people say "just dont tunnel/just wait 60 seconds" in response to complaining about DS that excuse isn't acceptable even though that's literally what you're meant to do to counter it.
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"Devs never said it was intended to be anti-tunnel."
2019 DS redesign dev post:
"players were able to use DS a long time after being unhooked, where it no longer serves the purpose to protect you from being tunneled/ farmed"
Source: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/48381/design-decisive-strike
Just thought I'd clear that up since I didn't see anyone else do it (unless I missed it). It was intended to be anti-tunnel/farm at the very least from the redesign.
That Peanits post was in 2020, and he used the word "purely" for a reason. That means yes its supposed to be ant-tunnel, but its also for something(s) else. As far as the devs have said, that something else is anti-farm. "Not purely" does NOT mean "not at all". Its not "no its not for anti-tunel" it is "its not only for anti-tunnel."
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On the original topic, if you don't like doing all 5 totems then just do the 1 NoED totem at endgame. That's what I do. Yeah the killer might down one person but you have to choose between saving time or disabling 1 of the killers 4 perks while your side has 16 and theirs only activates at the end of the game.
So ether use time now or take a gamble and risk using time later.
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I run Small Game, and it's funny because when NOED lights up in my games (if it does while I'm in the game at all), the Killer never defends it because - well, they need to NOED camp.
So I just cleanse it and we 4 escape anyways. Seriously, information perks help so much in Solo.
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