Just if anyone’s curious about reverting the hud.
They can revert a bad change but simply refuse to, what a shame.
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So they actually can go back.
why did they ever say they couldn’t?? Do the devs really think only they know how this stuff works?
I can understand not wanting to lose months of work, but really those months were already a waste of time
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Imagine not wanting to immediately undo the last 6 months of working on a project just because people on the forum are whining. How dare they not immediately cave to y'all who think so little of their time?
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I like the overall 'we don't give a [BAD WORD] about our playerbase's opinion' undertone.
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you can avoid having to revert months of work if you're more transparent in your design choices and if you're planning on making significant changes to the game, you can also run it by your players before you spend months working on those changes.
It's just so amazing how much bad PR they get just because they are so poor at communicating with the community.
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I mean, if they planned it months in advance, they should have seen months in advance that the new UI will not be good.
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your telling me that mess of a hud took 6 MONTHS?! people made far superior ones in 30 MINUTES...
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Exactly this, you have said it practically perfectly. I hope they just learn for the future; showing us the proposed change for Object of Obsession is taking a step in the right direction. I hope we see more of that, communication and listening/responding to feedback.
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Imagine being so incompetent that it took 6 months to do a HUD that a teenager in his parent's basement could have done in a single evening.
And lol at "all the systems we had to redesign to work with the new HUD."
LOl whatever. If you had to spend 6 months to figure out how to get the new HUD to work with your existing engine that is just sad. The real issue with BHVR is that their programmers have no idea how to program.
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The HUD has an entire new system behind it. It's not just about look and layout. But thing is that the logic here doesn't make sense. Reverting it and keep working on the new system would be an option. An option that they even approached with the MMR e.g.
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Tell me, which game UI have you designed? What games would we know your work from?
I didn't realize that DbD counted so many professional game designers among their fanbase.
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Oozing passive-aggressiveness. Not really a good way to handle communication. Ironically, coming by a community manager that just yesterday said communication should've been handled better.
Also, maybe don't invest months (suspicious figure by the way) into something nobody asked for and come up with a terrible product, while ignoring the plethora of years old bug that the community has been complaining about.
Plus, this confirms once again that when they pushed this mess to live, they were lying when they said they wanted to hear console feedback. And they wasted our time giving them feedback in the PTB as well. It was already planned, decided and sealed. They didn't give a ######### about what we thought until we raised out voices.
They're digging their hole even deeper, as far as I'm concerned.
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You must have made some real bangers. What multiplayer game do you design and help develop for a living? Don't be shy, promote your work! I mean, unless you are just guessing and have no actual idea what work is entailed in game design, but think playing games makes you an expert regardless.
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Imagine planning working on something that is as bad as this for months lol.
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It's not terribly hard to design a UI around a small amount of information like what is needed for a game like DBD. Now for games like Crusader Kings or Stellaris where you have economies, armies, intrigue, and politics, the difficulty in designing a crisp UI increases dramatically.
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For the record. I like the overall look, but have some wishes for changes. I just don't think my dislikes overrule every concern that goes into such a large system overhaul, and am actually willing to give the devs time to show what stuff they want to add in and change. They've kept the game going for years, I think that entitles them to more than 24 hours to prove the change was for the better.
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I'm actually taking beginning level coding for my Engineering degree right now.
I had to design and code my own UI the other week. It was difficult for me, but I imagine not super difficult for professionals.
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I remember those courses from when I was a lad. Good luck, seriously, I hope you do well in class.
The difference between the stuff you'll be doing in your first few years of school and the stuff you'll do in your career once you graduate is a bit like the difference between building a soap box racer and an 18 wheeler. And that's if you only have to worry about people who speak your native language and the visual language of the company you work for already as far as who you design for.
Building a system for speakers of multiple languages to be able to play together with the same level of information, across everything from a handheld gaming device to the highest end pc, while keeping everything a base level of legible, is like building a bus, while standing on top of another bus that Keanu Reeves won't let drop below 50 mph.
That's why I think so many of these "they could fix it, build a better one, etc in 30 minutes" troll comments are so #########.
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The thing is though, the old and new UI work exactly the same, apart from the hook counters. I'd be very keen to know what "system" they were working on for 6 months to power the new hook counter, and the fact UI elements have been moved to different sides of the screen.
Absolutely, people with no engineering experience who compare it to a mock up they did in Paint is laughable, but I think it's also laughable to say the new UI took 6 months when it's literally new graphics and moving elements, as far as I can see.
If they gave us something concrete other than "systems", that would be great.
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Although I'm saying "6" months based on Asher's post, the screenshot only mentions "months", so that could be 2/3/4?
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We know they took a single piece overlay and broke it up, which means new scripting under the hood to stop the pieces from jumbling. I'm guessing the vast majority of the work was for stability across platforms, as well as prepping for the elements they want to add in later. Also they had to teach the system to recognize and display each character, which is more difficult than just displaying 4 white busts with names under them. From the livestream they did, it seems clear they changed everything up primarily to give them freedoms down the line to add elements. It'll probably be easier to update as well, as they won't have to take down and edit the entire overlay, just the widget they want to improve. Hopefully they add the option to make them moveable, but that's a small gripe.
IO did the same with Hitman 2 and we ended up getting the best widget to have in a stealth game (silent assasin indicator)
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Well, given the tweet saying they were reviewing things, and given the fact this UI should be absolutely cutting edge, given the time taken to develop it, I'm hoping it should be easy for them to move some of the new widgets into the bottom corners to alleviate peoples complaints.
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I hope so too, but I think their focus will rightly be on fixing the hitboxes and other game breaking glitches, which kind of underscore how big a change was made, (after all, the ui doesn't register hits directly, so just updating the look should not have messed that up)
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Yeah 100% the desync issues should be the priority! Yes it is bewildering how this update has broken the game in such a major way and also somehow messed up the pipping and ranking system 😅
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If I had to guess, I would say the pip issue is likely because of some update they made to prep for the mmr system to make its (hopefully triumphant) return. They've said when that releases the rank system will serve a completely different purpose, so they probably have to prep for that.
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People complain mostly about LAYOUT of the UI, because it is terrible for anything but mobile. Person who designed it probably never did any kind of research how such stuff should function to be ergonomic for the user.
Thus, we have horrible mess of the UI with crucial information being FAR AWAY from the eye focus and useless stuff that barely needs to be checked are where they currently are.
Also not to mention worthless information being displayed on the screen (killer's hook progression... Why? It serves completely no purpose).
Currently, UI needs to be shifted around, so important Info is close to the eye focus zone and displayed information should be read with just a glimpse of the eye.
It is basic stuff.
Changing this should take a single person just few hours. It is literally just a few changes in the code in regards to the coordinates of widgets and their location on the screen.
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scott was a game designer and has vast experience in unreal engine making UIs (the same engine bhvrs using) and it took him a hour to make a better UI. Also saying "its just a few people on the forums" check their twitter and Facebook sometime. This is alittle weaker then the force for colorblind settings and it was the playerbase that brought it to us sooner. Not bhvr being nice.
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And she’s the Lead Community Manager? Lol ok.
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According to his linked in, scott was a beta tester. Not a designer, not a programmer, which explains why now he's paid to play games, and not make them.
It took him an hour to make an image of a ui, have you or anyone else actually used it? How stable is it? Does it work on every platform, or just pc?
It looks like he made a static overlay. He's a professional streamer, so I would worry about his ability if that took him much longer than an hour, but as you sent a video link and not a link to the game he put it in, or the site to download the mod, it appears a static image is all he created.
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lol his UI is literally two functions he wrote in notepad, it's a toy example. There's a huge difference between writing out some mock example code and actually writing code that compiles, runs, passes tests, and then feels right when you run the game.
Real engineering includes design, implementation, testing, all of this takes time and the process involves multiple teams
Also adding these changes to an existing code base comes with lots of complexity and even more time required to add and test. Scott's example is useless and betrays his ignorance and also seriously undermines my confidence in him doing any real engineering work in the past
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Damn, that's what I get for skipping through the 15 minutes of ranting looking for it. I gave him too much credit.
At least now we know why there are so many people clinging to the "they could fix it in an hour" fantasy.
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I'm a big fan of Scott and love this videos, and while I agree he is in the right ballpark that UI is one of the easier things to fix, I just get triggered when people underestimate any sort of programming task, especially when using such a trivial example. The number one thing I think developers quickly learn is that most tasks are usually going to take longer than you initially think, and there's usually hidden work. Unless you are working on a super clean codebase which you know inside out, and your problem is very well scoped (probably not the case at BHVR, unfortunately)
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I'm the same way with programming or network tasks. Too much time at work hearing "well can't we just make x do something different before the client gets here at noon?" Or for a more real example "hey, so turns out that the client uses lotus notes, not outlook. So we need the system to pull addresses from their linux db they attached to the lotus server indirectly, instead of reading an exchange server. Anyway, go live is in 45 minutes, good luck!"
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I think he was just doing it to demonstrate how much you can get done in like a hour and saying "how tf does this take 6 months" especially since he did work with designers in the past and back then it probably didnt take 6 months to do a UI. He even says hes just disproving them falling back on the excuse "we devoted months to this". Even rpgs dont look like that monstrosity we got. It looks like mobile lol.
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Notice it says month(s) with an S. That could mean two months. Also, they wouldn’t have to worry about months of work being for nothing if they had communicated better and not tried cramming this down our collective throats. Not our fault we didn’t like it in the majority.
i know if I’m going to paint my kid’s room, I at least ask for a few color preferences before I paint it. Just saying.
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I’ve posted threads like this and I got so much hate. I agree with you.
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If that is the product of 6 months of hard work, they need to reevaluate the folks who are doing said work. It shows in the resulting product.
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this could have all been avoided if they just shown us their progress on the UI so we could give feedback on what was wrong with it before it even reached PTB.
Like they dug themselves this hole they released it into the PTB where it was basically already embedded into the code and they didn't ask once what we thought of it before it was already decided that it would go into the live game.
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"We can't go back, deal with it" is what management/authority says to those under them when they realize they messed up but don't want to be questioned about it.
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The UI isnt even that big of a deal, y'all just a bunch of babies. Yeah, it's bad but you guys are treating it like they've just killed your parents or something. The UI just needs some tweaks in the layout of it and not a revert to the previous one. Survivor animations are a bigger problem because they feel slow and clunky and the idle pose looks unrealistic for the situation we are in.
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Y'all really on here complaining about UI. It'll take time to adjust to the changes, but damn... it's not that big of a deal. Critiquing the new HUD for future changes is one thing, asking for a revert of something the team has worked hard on to improve is just childish.
"I don't like this change so revert it."
Be constructive and realistic with your criticism.
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Months to make a UI in Unreal Engine. I don't even know what to say that. Like I'm genuinely mystified. What about this could have possibly taken more than a week for a single person working full time? It's not even aligned correctly. Hello?
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Knew they weren't going to change the HUD back.
Remember the surveys they get us to fill out asking what we want?! No, me neither.
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They don't have to revert it, they just need to move the icons around. That shouldn't be very hard at all.
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The hook-o-meter for killers is especially egregious and pointless. I really hate that thing.
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Why don't they involve the community + get feedback for ideas/proposals earlier? For their sake as well, rather than work on something for ages which everyone then hates.
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I always viewed "we can't go back" meaning it would require so much work, delay other projects, and cost a lot to do they aren't willing to do it. Not that it was literally impossible to make it happen technologically. I dont think thats what was ever meant to be communicated. I think they saw this as something that needed to change eventually and knew there would be a lot of issues with it (the fact the hud would change regardless of how it looked) that they prepared to move forward anyways. Now I have issues with it although much more minor than others.
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Imagine wasting 6 months of development time when you could have consistently updated the community on it and gotten feedback throughout development. At this rate they're gonna fall victim to the sunken cost fallacy. Better to cut their losses now than sustain even greater ones later.
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ScottJund has already made this point. But there's just no possible way it took months to do this. Then again looking at the other post from not queen the devs apparently only do 3-4 days of work in a month so maybe it really DID take months to make. But in all seriousness I entirely agree that they wouldn't NEED to undo "months" of work if they were more transparent about what they're working on.
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yeah guys. it's not that big of a deal. they took out all relevant information and replaced it with large crappy survivor images. just play without info. totally fine.
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yess bring the dramatics
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