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Thoughts on the new Clown? What changes would you make to him?
Personally as a Clown main, I've been really enjoying this Clown rework. I feel like this was a good step in the right direction for Clown, makes me excited for more reworks towards other killers that desperately need them. Things that I have liked.. Clown finally has his own chase music, the new set of add on combinations you can do is great, the reload buff is massively good, really like how realistic Clown's bottles look now, really do enjoy the antidote for how good it is in chase definitely something to learn and master, and very much enjoy that Clown's skill ceiling has definitely been raised (obviously way more skillful than Freddy). Although I really do enjoy the antidote, I've been having a struggle trying to get the timing of it right around the killer shack. I think I have the idea of what I can do with the antidote around killer shack, my problem currently has been me forgetting to switch between antidote and tonic which has lead to me accidentally throwing two antidote bottles. Definitely feel like there's more things to learn with the antidote, and will definitely experiment around with it more. This is all what I currently like about the new Clown.
What sort of changes would I make for the new Clown? At times I've always felt that four bottles just isn't enough, so I've kinda always liked the idea of giving Clown Sticky Soda Bottle as basekit. But since his reload speed has been buffed, maybe it's a change that isn't necessary but I'll always think about. I'm not to a big of a fan of giving killers insta down add ons, looking at you especially Iridescent Head. Clown of course also has an insta down add on known as "Redhead's Pinky Finger." There's a lot more you can do with this add on instead of it being insta down bottles, I like the idea of changing it to where Clown gets the undetectable status effect after he enters the tonic or antidote clouds for a certain amount of time. Tattoo's Middle Finger add on shows you the aura of survivors who are intoxicated or invigorated, I honestly don't really see much of a point to running this add on especially with the change to Cigar Box, makes this add on even more worthless than it already is. I was thinking why not change it to where it tremendously increases the blurred vision for the survivors, since we don't have add ons that do that anymore. Kerosene Can gives you the blindness status affect once you intoxicate survivors, this along with all other blindness add ons in the game just don't really feel worth using the slot for. Maybe if the blindness duration was increased it could be good, but I honestly don't know what I would change about this add on that's very meh at best. Lastly the map mobility for the Clown still isn't the best, and with the antidote it's still not to good. Unless you run the invigorated add ons along with extra bottles, or do double invigorated that can give you some sort of map mobility. I've always liked the idea of giving Clown a bottle that he can drink that would give him a massive speed boost to help for his map pressure, and maybe make it to where it last for a good thirty or so seconds, and of course it would have to have a cooldown put on it. Maybe this idea could make for a good ultra rare add on maybe? That's how I feel with the new Clown, would love to hear what others would think and would like to know what sort of changes you would make to Clown?
Comments
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I think you and @TheClownIsKing are gonna like each other...
As for how I, someone who doesn't main Clown, feel about it...
Eh. I probably still won't play him that much. I can't think of anywhere where the Antidote is going to incredibly useful. It barely gives you any saved time when using to travel. In chases, his Tonic will always be more useful.
Again, I'm not a Clown main. If you had questions about Wraith, I'm your man.
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I don't actually have clown so I can only make my observations on the few times I've fought him.
- The new music kicks ass.
- The speed smoke not sure how much it helps me. I tried running through it and didn't feel much. I wasn't able to figure out if it let me improve any loops.
- His slow smoke is just as nasty as it's always been.
On the whole I didn't notice any difference from the survivor side. No idea how he plays.
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All I would do is give him 5 bottles base. I feel like while the new reload is nice he has to reload a lot more often now so having one more bottle would be nice.
They could change his yellow capacity addon to do something else
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I don't really like these Antidotes, they don't fix what made Clown bad in the first place.
I came up with an idea for Clown a little while ago.
Basically Clown would be able to lay down a canister of his Tonic. It would permeate through the area and stay there for a long while. Any survivor that enters the area would be affected like they were standing within a normal Tonic.
I know it's not that good, but I kinda thought of it off the top of my head.
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I'd make the antidote bottles separate from the tonic bottles so that clown has 4 bottles of each and switches between them.
It'd make it so you can use both bottles a bit more with less reloading overall. Other than that he's probably fine.
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I really like the clown rework. I'm happy they didn't just pull a freddy and slapped on some strong mechanic abilities and called it a day.
Trying to figure out where to place which gas is really fun and the payoff is there for the most part.
The rework didn't really make him that much stronger though. It improved his already strong chase game but left his weakness of map presence intact.
For some people that will probably be a bummer but personally i prefer fun B tier killer to strong but boring A tier killers.
If i would change something i would like to see how it would be if when the gasses are placed on top of eachother that they create a chemical explosion instead of just cancelling eachother out
Would probably be too strong but it sounds cool
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It can be really good once you know to how to use it properly in the chase, of course it's not the best for map traversal. I'm still testing to see how it's gonna work at killer shack, it's just the switching between bottles has been my struggle at that shack because I forgot to switch at the perfect time. Also speaking of Wraith haven't checked out his buff yet, saw Otz play him and he was having a ton of fun with the insta pallet breaker Wraith.
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I've been wanting to see how the speed is for survivor, but the Clowns I've gone against have always been intoxicating me..
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That's an idea that I always have been thinking about, wouldn't know how everyone else would feel about it.
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Sounds interesting but with how fast pace the game has become in turns of how quick survivors do gens, it would probably be a very struggling power to use.
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saw Otz play him and he was having a ton of fun with the insta pallet breaker Wraith.
He is a man of quality. At topic, I can see how the antidote could be useful, but to me, it just feels like the Tonic is always going to be more useful.
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That sounds really good actually, plus I think that would actually help for learning the antidote since you have four bottles to work with for both tonic and antidote.
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Love the music
Glad they sped up his reload
His new bottle doesn't change a whole lot and wasn't what he needed. The attitude triggers too slow and I hate that survivors also can benefit from it. A second bottle type (especially one like that) doesn't help him enough. The fact that the new bottle has potentially more cons than pros over just doing old bottles alone is a bad sign. I just dont like a killers power to be able to buff survivors. He also needs more bottles overall if that's what they wanna do with him
I just got back into dbd and played clown pretty exclusively after he was first released .
Id much rather give clown a second ability like a trap jack in the box (kinda like pop goes the Weasle perk look) to make chases interesting with trying to guide survivors to certain areas more. If not that, maybe a water flower on his chest that you trigger to shove a survivor forward but does no damage (could make chases more dicey). Could do something balloon trap related as well
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Yeah it's the same thing with Bubba, buffed in chase but still suffer from no map mobility. Freddy is still better than Clown by all means, and he always trumps him with being able to teleport across the map. But with the Freddy nerf coming sometime soon, depending on how drastic it could be Clown could potentially become stronger than him. Also how we all miss old Freddy... Maybe with the nerf they might be able to bring back the mechanic of him needing to put survivors to sleep, I can only hope though.
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Nah I like thicc boi Clown
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Honestly if they removed freddy teleport, replaced with go to sleep faster, slowed down his current sleep progress, and fixed his weird m1 attack range he would be fine
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Well the option of using the tonic is still there by all means, still feels like you're playing old Clown but with just a decreased reload time.
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There's potential of the antidote being really good, it's only been day three so far and everyone is still trying to learn the basics of it. Not a fan of it speeding up survivors as well, and the antidote delay could be half a second or two.
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Oh, I know, I just wish they made the new aspects to his power more useful. Every rework so far has felt substantial, while making the killer better. This does make Clown better, but I don't think it's substantial.
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Primarily thing is I'd give him 5 bottles or increase his movement speed while reloading - That's it.
New bottles have much to be desired and once survivors actually get how Clown is trying to use them you're going to see Clown played around even more than before.
For starters the new bottle makes his power require twice as many bottles to take advantage of both. The reload speed buff was nice and all but it doesn't change how bad his brief downtime is using his power. People don't seem to understand that even if the reload speed is short you're still taking moments just to lose vision on the map to reload your power. This is why I would increase his reload movement speed even if just slightly. Potentially even giving him 5 bottles because I'll be honest you need to play him perfectly for mediocre payoff. In comparison to other killers Clown's kit is still underwhelming.
You may ask why compare Clown to other killers? Shouldn't he be in his own lane like every other killer?
Most killers power can be reset while they're on the move on the map and they don't need to take time to slow down and lose vision on the map because they're unable to patrol at full speed. The few that do need to legitimately stop to refill their power do so because their power outright can end a chase such as Huntress, Deathslinger and even to an extent Trapper. For killers that don't such as Wraith, Ghostface, Legion and Doctor to name a few examples their power recharges as they run around the map. Even if they're in mid chase they can recharge their power with little inconvenience to them and even with that in mind they're not great.
So with that in mind - Is it so much to ask for a slight movement speed buff to Clown while he is reloading? I don't believe it was unreasonable from the start to ask that. Especially since not much changes with Clown aside from some excessively longer loops Clown can now deal with. However even with that in mind Clown will likely depend on Brutal Strength because his Tonic's aren't great. Someone did some math on the PTB and in my view was a justifiable reason enough to give Clown other buffs.
This within reason is one of a few reasons I believe Clown needs something else. I don't feel the numbers need cranked up extensively but a couple of seconds would be ideal. However my view is an increase in capacity by 1 to make his base bottles 5 as well as an increase in movement speed while reloading would be welcome. I still feel like he would be a weak killer who is punished heavily for making mistakes with his power and I feel like is still heavily addon dependent but at least it wouldn't feel so garbage making even a slight mistake in your predictions with the power.
tl;dr - Power isn't good enough to be so punishing for making even tiny misplays - Could use an extra bottle and an increase in movement speed while reloading.
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The only two reworks I'll never happy about is Freddy and Billy. What we had with old Freddy was such a unique treat, and I would definitely trade the current boring Freddy for the original not so good but fun to play old Freddy. And Billy didn't need a rework at all, a lot of people will still agree on his add ons were the problem not the killer itself.
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- Separate the bottles. 4 bottles of both antidote and tonics are dumb, Clown needs more.
- Reduce the Antidote delay to around 1.75 seconds? Maybe more or less. There needs to be a delay to add some strategy (but also help you out a bit as Clown) but the current delay is too long.
- I would personally increase the speed boost. I really want it to be a little more useful for mobility, as its currently not, and it still wouldn't be even with a 5%+ increase, but at least it'd be slightly better. However, its intended use IS using it in chase, and making it a little stronger in chase would encourage more use of it.
- Now that Clown has 2 different bottles, reduce the bottle-throwing cooldown. It's a little too long considering the fact that you have to throw multiple bottles now. Nothing too crazy, but just by a bit.
- This is iffy, but not because it'd make Clown OP or dumb (that's not happening lol), but I honestly kinda wish they made bleach (Increase of Tonic slow) base simply because I want Clown to have more chase advantages over Freddy, and I think an increase of the Antidote speed would compliment this well. Can be argued, but I don't really think it could be argued well, as like I said, it's not going to make Clown OP or anything, it's just not a completely necessary change.
I still think Clown would be underpowered, as he lacks map pressure completely still, but this would help him out significantly in my opinion.
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How would you feel if Smelly Inner Soles was basekit? What was once a brown add on, is now a green add on. It fixes the problem that you were mentioning of him slowing down when reloading, plus he keeps a very good close amount of distance towards the survivor he is chasing.
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#########, your right, I forgot about Billy.
I rescind my statement. Billy just needed add-ons changed.
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Im thinking about increase his reloading time much more. But doesnt slow down him.
It will make him always ready for a chase across the map. But punished for wrong throw.
And instead of reloading always have to be full time for full bottles (like Huntress). Make it 1.5sec for a reload, +1 bottle, keep holding button to keep reloading.
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If I were to buff clown I would
- Increase number of bottles by 1
- make it so directly hitting someone with the afterpiece tonic gives them a extra 5% hindered
- hitting someone directly with a bottle makes it so they cannot do any actions for 2.5 seconds
- increase movement speed while reloading to 105% speed
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Disclaimer: I haven't played much Clown before the changes but I'd like to think my bottle placement at loops is at least okay.
I have a lot of fun with him in chase but it feels like he really can't down survivors fast enough to win if they just hold W and drop pallets nor can he get around the map quickly enough to pressure gens. Granted, the perks I have unlocked on him aren't great but also aren't bad.
I was excited for Antidote but in practice it feels like it isn't worth the reload time and all it seems to do is give you something to do with your last bottle before you reload or make already unsafe loops unsafer. Feels like it either needs more speed or a longer duration.
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I had a match yesterday on Midwich, and the antidote is very helpful for the hallways when survivors are just running forward.
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I've constantly suggested making his reload movement speed addons do something else and giving him at least 100 ms while reloading. It just doesn't feel like enough because his power has too much downtime. To fully utilize his power you pretty much use all your bottles and you cannot make mistakes. You'll either ignore the tonic's completely or spend twice as much time reloading. I feel the movement speed while reloading buff is even more so necessary now.
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i played a little bit of him and i think his antidote is kind of bad. the speed boost it gives you isn't impactful enough and the duration is like 5 seconds.
i think it would be better if the speed boost amount/duration was more or if it gave you something like faster action speed while under the affects so you could break pallets or vault windows faster.
otzdarva suggested in one of his videos that clown bottles would regress gens when a bottle is thrown at them, that would be cool.
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I feel like Clown's still pretty much the same after the rework. The antidote when used correctly allows you to get downs slightly faster but that's about it. Using them for map travel really is a waste of bottles and the delay on antidote makes it a bit tricky to do your galaxy brain plays around loops. Clown's still pretty weak on larger maps and gen rush in general. For buffs I think that invigorated should give two buffs: the 10% movement speed and a 10% buff in action speed. For survivors that means slightly faster repair, healing, vaulting, etc and for clown it means slightly faster vaulting, breaking, picking up downed survivors, etc. I think the small bonus in action speed will go a long way and can combo off pretty well from perks like bamboozle, brutal strength and fired up. Antidote just needs a little bit of extra 'oomph' to it and I think the action speed bonus fits perfectly into it and the theme of his power too, hence it being an "ivigoration" of sorts.
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As suspected, bothering to use his yellow bottle can usually only hurt you. What some people call a "new and interesting" rework, I call a lot of extra work. You're much better just playing Clown normally with only the purple bottles. I'm disappointed.
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