Dead Hard needs a nerf or a rework from the ground up
I'm so tired of seeing this OP perk. If all 4 survivors have Dead Hards they're almost unbeatable. It's used as basically a third health state, which is insane. And while survivors with bad connections are locked out of using it in this way, we're not gonna take that into account because that's a different issue. "But you can bait it out." Not all the time. PC survivors will literally have a macro on the button so they can never get punished for waiting too long to use it. And even without that, they usually have a godlike connection to the server, allowing them to use it exactly as the killer swings anyway. Some people say Sprint Burst is the best exhaustion perk, Balanced, Lithe, but the best players know it's Dead Hard. It's the only exhaustion perk that gives literal invincibility frames, making them go through the killer's body, over bear traps, etc. That's not even remotely fair.
I've got 2 ideas for it:
Nerf it: Only let survivors use it once a match, or if you need a compromise, once between hook states.
Rework it: I don't know what it would be, but just not the same perk as it is now.
But it needs to be fixed ASAP. It's carrying way too many survivors out of games they pretty much deserved to lose in. It's their 3rd chance, 4th chance, 5th chance getaway perk. It's like DS where you're absolutely undaunted by the killer as you do a gen in his face while injured, and then you get the benefit and the killer gets more and more wasted time. I don't know how this perk ever made it to live.
Comments
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I think its fine but if it was reworked I would say limit the number of times you can use it by putting it on a token system.
3 tokens and once all the tokens are used they can't use dead hard again and permanently have the exhaustion status.
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This
Rightly used, you just make it always to a window or pallet. It does not matter that the killer allready knows you have it, because if there is a window / pallet, you just make it there. It's just so broken, that it has only a CD.
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This change would also put a skill factor to it. As its skillful to know when its best and when its not best to use dead hard and save it for another time. It would also keep the killer guessing if the survivors have it or not.
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That wouldn't solve the problem since survivors can use medkits and really save their dead hards for the right moment.
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As it stands, people can use it once per chase, they get to 1 more pallet than they would have before, and your chase is longer for it.
If you really think a token system would be better, I'd love to see how you'd fare in that chase when they can extend it three times based off tokens. 4 survivors, each extending their first chase 3 times. You'd have your first down at the EGC if you're having trouble with it once in a chase.
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Which in my opinion is still skillfull. You want to save your dead hard for the right moment.
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As a survivor main who has Dead Hard unlocked, I never actually use it cuz it feels very clunky whenever I use it.
My main perks are: Spine Chill, Iron Will, Self Care, Borrowed Time.
When I play killer, it does feel weird though.
It's almost like a must: Decisive Strike, Dead Hard, Sprint Burst, etc. Every survivor runs them.
I think a slight tweak would be nice so that other niche perks get to shine a little more.
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Holy hell someone with a brain.
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I think what should really happen is that No Mither & Dead Hard get merged together, and David gets given a new perk.
If players want their DH, they remain broken the entire match.
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Dead Hard used to be an auto-include for me as well, but then I kept getting exhaustion on the ground for half a second due to being on console.
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That's so good. I like it.
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As it stands right now, Dead Hard is my most hated survivor perk, (excluding Ds+Ub).
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I don't think it needs a nerf but it does need to be fixed so that survivors can't wait for you to swing and still hit it every time. I have chased the butt of a survivor for 10 seconds trying to draw it out and then swung, and they still timed it. Something is wrong when that is possible.
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A re-work would be better then a straight nerf... But A token system wouldn't work
My take on it would be longer exhaustion the more you use it... ( same for the other exhaustion perks though)
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Why wouldn't a token system work?
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Alternatively, make it so you can't drop pallets or vault for a few seconds after Dead Harding so you can't E to Outplay.
Just bait it out at that point.
There, balanced.
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lmao 3 tokens is all you need for most games.
Start with 1 and earn others through safe unhooks
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its the dbd latency effect. Try that as survivor and you end up on the ground without DH activating.
Its like how if you don't press M1 within a 0.001 second window you can't grab a survivor thats unhooking in front of you, but when you play survivor the killers can interrupt your unhook at any point within the entire animation and grab you
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Maybe I should've said that I personally don't like the token system
But having limited uses might be an issue
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Well for something as strong as dead hard its going to need limitations isn't it?
That could possibly work as well. But is 3 tokens really too much? I have been in chases multiple times a game and being able to use it more then once.
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With dead hard, completely changing it would not fix the problems and possible just force survivors to run just sprint burst or lithe if they’re feeling spicy.
Currently, Dead Hard has two functions, one of which was not intend and is the least like part: To dodge/avoid a hit and gaining distance while being completely immune to any hinderances (I.e. bear traps, hits, etc.).
To remedy Dead hard, you need to choose of the functions to keep/buff to remove/nerf the other. Will dead hard stay true to it’s essence and be an avoid a hit perk or a guaranteed/safe distance giving perk?
If the first option, the invisibility frames must be increased at the cost of a shorter distance gained, likely at restrict a survivor’s normal locomotion to only being able to running (no vaulting/dropping pallets).
If the other option, decrease/remove invisibility frames while giving a longer faster, speed boost (might even allow a survivor normal locomotion.
Limiting dead hard to tokens completely removes the validity of exhaustion as it would become too encumbered by its restrictions and “draw backs”.
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If DH gets fixed with the latency issues, I would love this change. DH is my favorite exhaustion perk to run as survivor and I think this would be healthy for the perk.
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I don't understand where you got that gaining distance is not an intended function of DH. The perk description literally tells you that you dash forward quickly.
What you're saying is the equivalent of saying that avoiding a swing with Sprint Burst is not intended, because the perk should only be used to make distance.
These perks have a description of what they do mechanically. As long as they do that, how you implement it in your gameplay is within your purview.
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Rank 1 killer main here who uses Dead Hard every time he plays survivor.
Yes DH is strong, but it's also the most skill based exhaustion perk. It is not OP. It is not "press E to outplay". Dead Harding for distance is useful and can be clutch in a pinch but you have to plan and route it correctly, which if we're being honest is true for every exhaustion perk.
Most of the killer games I play people panic and goof their Dead Hards. Most of the time you can bait it out. When someone does DH the last few feet to a pallet I don't get mad. I think, "nice Dead Hard" and then I win the match anyways.
Also, can we stop with the 'PC players are using macros for their DH?'. I'm not trying to start a PC vs console fight, I just don't like it when people make accusations of cheating with no evidence.
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What? 1 token consumed after that you are exhausted. So one token per chase with the usual CD of dead hard.
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With reworked maps I'm not as frustrated when ever someone uses Dead Hard to get to a pallet. The pallets usually aren't safe after all and can be mindgamed, whereas before you literally just had to leave the chase because unless the survivor is terrible, you wouldn't catch them at the loop.
The reworked version The Game does raise some concerns though because it's filled with safe pallets and god pallets.
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Remember it's more so if the killers connection is good enough to use DH to make them miss a swing. As soon as the ping is high for killer you cannot use it reactively anymore. Can we get a nerf to high ping killers?
I wouldn't say dead hard is better than sprint burst imo, however, it is definitely more versatile than sprint burst. It's not really a third health state because you get very little distance from the killer with it.
You do realise it's not a walk in the park using dead hard to its full potential. The ones where they hit the window on an obtuse angle and manage a fast vault with it being the only option to not get hit? Those are clutch moments and its what keeps people coming back.
I do agree it's 40 second exhaustion is pretty generous, however, it shouldn't be a one time use perk. It's not THAT good.
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Never had a problem with DH, not even pc rank 1 survivors. And yeah you can bait it out all the time IMO.
I can agree to a degree that a 40 seconds cool down could be too generous for the exhaustion perks in general, they could be 60 seconds with a buff to Vigil (Quentin’s perk) to reduce them to 40 - with no chance to stack. That could slightly shift the meta.
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asking a DH nerf is uneeded , it can be brain by killers , it's easy . DH dont work atm doing plenty DH on the ground
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If you have more than 2 brain cells you can bait dead hard making it most of the time useless. It is fine as it is.
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So i see more nerf DH threads.
I played a long time with dead hard and switched recently to sprintboost.
First OP is wrong when he thinks that dodging a hit is even close to useful most of the time. Macro or whatever doesnt matter. When you near enough to the survivor you can lunge and hit him at the end of his dead hard.
Dead hard is mostly about gaining distance. This is so strong bc there are many good loops, reaching one of this loops extends a chase a lot. If the loops were weaker the time loss against dead hard, wouldnt be so crucial for the killer.
Gaining distance has another strong effect. There are many mindgames for the survivor with high risk/high reward. When the killer falls for it, the survivor gains a lot of time, when not the survivor is down. But when the survivor has dead hard there is no risk, so the survivor tries this mindgames more often.
But i switched not to sprintboost bc i think dh is too op, i think sprintboost is stronger.
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Oh yeah. "Just bait it". What if there is a pallet in front of them. How do you bait that?
What if they use it to gain distance for a flashlight or pallet save? How do you bait that?
You must not play red rank killer that often. Most games vs 4 red rank survivors you're going to see at least 3 dead hards.
"JuSt BaIt It!"
Such a dumb argument. It's the "just do bones" argument for survivor. Zero nuance or real life application.
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Considering I have 4k hours in this game and I'm at red ranks, more often than not, like someone said above, survivors will panic and waste it. If they get a flashlight save and a pallet save because they used dead hard, it seems like that was a you problem, for not paying attention to your surroundings/looking at a wall. I never get blinded by flashlights, those are one of the easiest things to avoid in this game.
"Just do bones" is actually a good argument for SWF groups, for solo, not so much.
Dead Hard can be avoided, and yes sometimes it gives you an advantage. By that logic, why not nerf all perks? They're all supposed to give advantages.
Just get better.
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More hours than you and also red ranks. You gave me a circular argument. My guess is it's your survivor perk of choice and you'd hate to see it nerfed.
I've said it before, DH on It's own with one survivor running it isn't terrible. Going up against groups of 3 or 4 that are running is. You're simply not going to catch people out in the open where you can bait it all that often, regardless of what this 4k hour red rank dude claims. It's used to get to create space to the next pallet or window. You simply can't bait that.
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Actually as a solo player, my perk of choice is kindred, but thanks for the comment.
"This red rank dude" has a name, so try to be more respectful next time. You clearly know nothing about what you're talking about, and if you have more hours than me as you claim, you wouldnt get blinded by flashlights that easily.
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we already getting decisive nerf coz of people like you , git gud noob
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You're the one that brought up ranks, guy. I get flashlighted from time to time, so does everybody.
My point was that there are more uses for Dead Hard than just avoiding hits.
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If there wasn't more uses for DH it would be a dead perk. Perk is fine as it is. Bait it. If they get to a pallet with it they're now exhausted and can't use it again. IMHO Sprintburst is better. End LoS before it starts.
If someone uses lithe to extend a chase or get to a pallet should that be nerfed too?
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If Lithe were as strong as DH, you'd see more people running it. Let's not pretend that they're equally strong perks.
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Lol imagine complaining about a perk that doesn’t work 99% of the time and leaves you exhausted on the floor most of the time due to the killers “Amazing” PNG. Craaazzyyy.
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That seems too overboard and a bit too harsh.
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DH only works half the time for me. the other half I'm exhausted on the ground. I like to run it because I like to resilience gens so I run around injured alot. I run self care and a med kit with it and 99 myself so if killer comes I just got to quick tap my self to be ready. DH on console sucks lags whole game and barely works. I don't think has to be nerfed would prefer other things look at first like KEYS IN A CHEST.
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What an ice cold take. 99% of the time it doesn't work? Why do so many people run a perk that doesn't work 99% of the time. Oh that's because obviously your take on Dead Hard is blatantly and factually false.
Post edited by Rizzo on2 -
Do you realize how condescending you sound? Ew. Either add something intelligent to the table or stop posting.
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I’d say it needs a complete rework since it is both buggy and too strong
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Can't take this serious, even more so considering this is coming from the same guy who considers 360's cheating and that it requires zero skill to pull off. I bet that's the only reason he's absolutely fine with the current movement since he'd just get spun to oblivion like a legit rank 20 before lmfao.
What a clown.
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Add something intelligent? What, like "DH doesn't work 99% of the time?" Or "Sorry you get flashlighted"? Or "I'm a red rank with 4000 hours"?
Like c'mon, for real?
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Those are valid arguments. Calling someone "this guy" or calling people children isn't. :)
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"Dead hard doesn't work 99%" is a valid argument?
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Umm...
I'm speechless. How is that a valid argument?
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Because it is related to the game and topic at hand, and not a snarky personal attack.
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