Can someone explain to me why people seem to downplay how busted Dead Hard is?
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Dead hard can be annoying sure, but if you think like a survivor would it can be pretty easy to work around. Its what I try and do, but thats just me.
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"killer can't do a whole lot about it except hope the survivor somehow screws it up"
That's why it wrecks the low tier killers the most. These killers for the most part rely on survivors to make mistakes, when a survivor finally makes a mistake and then has an UNDO button it might take another 30-50 seconds or so before they make another mistake. That's huge in terms of gen time.
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Dead hard can be annoying but usually when its used on me I messed up some how by swinging early or something like that. The perks the infuriate me the most is anything that gets the survivors 10,000 miles ahead of you like sprint burst. especially when they are on a gen and run away and there is like no point in going after them because they are so far away. Makes me so mad
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Good1 m8
We can certainly compare ranks and achievements if you want.
Unfortunately, it won't prevent your continued ignorance on the topic at hand, but I appreciate your weak attempt at saving face.
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Keep crying about DH
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I don't recall crying about DH at all.
My only comment was referring to its optimal use and your ignorance of such.
By all means, though, feel free to explain how DH to avoid an attack is superior to DH for distance, as per your initial stance.
The whole forum is your audience and, I imagine, could really use this revolutionary information to shake up their gameplay.
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This was always going to be predictable, the moment DS got nerfed (which was needed) people would start going after something else. We've had threads crying about spine chill, Dead hard and I'm pretty sure there was one about sprint burst recently. Yeah it's a pain to go up against but for christ sake some people just want every survivor perk gutted to the point of uselessness. A lot of killers have powers that can either nullify or at least offset DH's impact in a chase.
You have to be injured to use it, it's not hugely reliable and it gives an exhaustion debuff. If the survivor is in a loop its entirely situational as to whether they'll get value out of it and if they're in the open you just as easily can bait it out. Quite bluntly this just sounds like people who aren't that good at killer are upset survivors actually have some decent tools in their arsenal. With the exception of Gideon Meat Plant, most pallets are gone, there are tons of unsafe tiles now and maps have generally been made smaller. Generator speeds are a problem, as is the lack of meaningful objectives on the survivor side. There are legitimate issues to be concerned with but Dead Hard isn't one of them.
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I've seen many good players lose entire games because of an early game DH. Survivors second chance perks should not be happening before the first hook.
And then if we count the amount of times I've chased survivors only for DH to give them the extra few meteres they need to make it out of the exit gate.....its hands down turned the tide of more endgames than I can count
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Sure, I don't dispute it's been a contributing factor for the loss, but I don't buy the insinuation that dead hard alone cost them the entire game. However, by that same token you can make that argument about every perk in the game and that doesn't even factor in all the games you, me and other killers have won where dead hard provided none to little value. Personally I've seen a while timed sprint burst cause more problems than dead hard.
You cannot simply nerf something on the basis it might have won / lost a few games when every perk in the entire game can be argued to have done that. What's next, do we nerf adrenaline because it stopped a killer securing some kills or nerfing windows of opportunity because it allowed the survivor to chain together some loops? Of course we wouldn't because that would be absurd. Dead hard is no different in principle, it's a one time use in a chase (due to exhaustion) that requires a favourable situation to get value. I've seen more people dead hard into walls than losing a chase due to it.
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Two Killer's I watch regularly on Twitch with probably 10k hours combined between them both name Dead Hard as their most powerful (or least favourite) survivor perk, so tell us again how it's only people who aren't good at Killer who find a problem with the perk.
Also I don't think any powers nullify Dead Hard, it's the opposite way around lol (DH avoids Nurse blink, Huntress hatchets, Trapper traps, etc.)
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quoting myself because
"And then if we count the amount of times I've chased survivors only for DH to give them the extra few meteres they need to make it out of the exit gate"
Speak of the devil. Just had 2 games and this actually happened in both games. 2 free escapes granted because of a stupid perk that propels you forwards 2 meters.
Meanwhile get an extra kill or two with NOED and survivors say it's OP.
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The game is designed for Killers to win chases. You are faster (typically), have special abilities and, can use perks to reveal Survivors.
The "second chance" perks only really delay the inevitable and waste the Killer's time. Without these perks Survivors could only rely on strong loops, windows and, pallets, basically at the mercy of the map tiles and pallet spawns.
Perks and build combos that slow down survivor progress essentially do the same thing, waste survivor time. It's a game of time management really. You're overall build, style of play and, choices in the match will often determine who wins. Aside from hatch escape.
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Whoop de do, if we're going to play that game there's plenty of killers (including streamers) who still demolish teams running Dead Hard + whatever other meta perks. Those players don't lose because of a single or even 4 dead hards, they lose because the fundamental problem of aggressively sitting on gens and having some moderate looping skills causes a huge amount of pressure before even factoring in anything else such as perks. That isn't a problem exclusive to Dead Hard, it's a problem with the underlying game design and nerfing the former would do very little to change that.
Nullify isn't quite the right word, but powers can reduce the impact it has. Nurse, spirit, Freddy, huntress (situational), deathslinger (situational), pyramid head etc. all have ways of dealing with a post dead hard situation. If you use to get to the window you can still be caught by specific killers mid animation lock. Trapper is obviously the biggest sufferer under dead hard and that should certainly be fixed.
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Well sure, the main problem is always going to be gen speeds vs 12 hooking and lack of objectives for survivors. Dead Hard can still make that worse though, as it can significantly extend chase times and make this imbalance in Survivor/Killer objectives even worse (the classic 2 gens popping in the first chase is even worse when the chase is prolonged by DH, and then the chases after that...)
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People whine about it all the time. What gets downplayed is how buggy the perk is since dedicated servers. Which is worse with the new hitbox issues. I dont mind it. The issue isnt dh its that some variations got too many interconnected loops. Its value for anything but distanc3 goes out the window once you know they have it. Also because of the bug.my only gripe is that the other perks are less desirable aside from sprint burst. Head on fot example deserves a buff.
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Of course it will make it worse, but my problem with complaining about dead hard is that it's trying to solve a symptom rather than the root cause. You could very easily make the same argument about nearly every exhaustion perk (I'd argue sprint burst or lithe is worse because it gets them to safer loops or escape to another safe loop from an unsafe one). Losing 2 gens in itself isn't a problem if you have solid map control over where the remaining gens are (hell as Trapper / hag you're expected to let a few go early). But let's say for argument's sake that the dev's did nerf DH, you can be damn sure they won't fix gen speeds at that point because then they'd have to go back and undo a load of nerfs to perks people complained about. Fix the fundamental problem, then we can see whether dead hard or any other exhaustion perk needs tweaking.
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If DH wasn't that great you wouldn't see it on 50% of all survivors every lobby.
I know the devs have their "stats" but nobody cares about them, we all play the game, we all play high rank, we all know there's 2 DH minimum per game and it's quite possibly the most common survivor perk even more so than DS.
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It helps against nurse, one of the strongest killers in the game...how is that an issue? She's just gonna blink again and get them next time.
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Oh yeah good point I forgot that every killer in the game plays Nurse. Problem solved.
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Everyone still loves to throw this ‘significantly extends chase time’ yet seem to forget all the things killers have that significantly reduce chase times. Both sides have these to help them.
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OK but it's not like survivors then just don't use it when they're facing a weaker Killer. No they're gonna extend that chase into a 30 second chase against other Killers from Oni to the Trapper.
The same way people who claim they are using Iron Will to counter Spirit, conveniently forgetting that it gives them a huge advantage in stealth and mind games against all the other Killers too.
Yeah I suppose, Dead Hard is easier to fix than introducing a new objective or overhauling the current game mode :P
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I was addressing what OP said about it hard countering Nurse. Other killers don't get countered as hard by it. You're the guy who conplains about DH being used for distance and you get looped so much you have that as your username...maybe just...git gud? Like most of the other killers who think it's fine.
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The problem with people wanting to nerf dead hard is that if you nerf it literally any way it becomes pretty useless and nobody would ever run it then.
Whether people like it or not it's a perk that requires good game sense and some skill in using (Predicting a killers actions) and it either saves your life or ends up being a WASTE of exhaustion perk potential.
Someone running dead hard could easily use a much more consistent exhaustion perk like sprint burst which killers also complain about and I think that at the end of the day this all boils down to killers having a major problem with exhaustion perks in general since I've heard complaints about literally every single one.
Personally I'm on the side of dead hard not getting nerfed since it is entirely possible to play around it. It's pretty obvious when survivors have it and are looking to use it and that's how you exploit it. I understand it's pretty unfair against Nurse but idk, seems like an acceptable counter to me just like bringing Iron Will actually gives people a chance against Spirit.
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If by "people" you mean killer, yeah, they do actually complain about deadhard, quite a lot actually, WAY more than Unbreakable and Soul Guard. As you said, it's basically a free health state if used right (and it's really not that hard to use it right, unless you are in the middle of an open field).
The thing tho, unlike stuff like DS or OoO is that it kinda feel "fair enough" when use by the surivor, when thos two other perks just feel like total bullshit.
Edit: Also I feel like the dev have fixed one of its main "bullshit factor"(or maybe its yet another bug, since it wasn't present anywhere in the patch notes): you can no longer DH trough the killer.
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Yes thats exactly why I chose this username because I get looped for hours 🙄
How about instead of telling me to git gud, you git gud? and the survivors? I did git gud, I mindgame the survivors so bad they need a literal UNDO button in the game, they need a second chance....but of course its the killers that need to git gud right?
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Rank 1 killer main here who has no problem with DH.
Dead Harding for distance isn't abusing or exploiting the perk, it's using it exactly as intended. If it makes you lose extra time during a chase, well... that's exactly what exhaustion perks are supposed to do. It can even be counterplayed... sometimes. If a survivor Dead Hards to reach a pallet they're going to panic-drop that pallet 95% of the time. If the loop is short enough you can run to the other side and hit them before they can vault back. It's not foolproof, but it's more counterplay than you get against a squad that 99s their Sprint Bursts.
When I see a survivor use DH well I don't rage, I just think "nice Dead Hard" and then keep playing.
Also, I use DH when I play survivor. It's not broken. It's just a really good perk.
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Agreed TheWarNung.
I'll be honest, at this point if feels like one of thos perks that should just be baseline, just make the exhaustion way longer and it will probably improve the game a whole (ofc that also mean killers should get something too, and the top of my list would be auto regression on gen with kicks that actually bump them down ala pop but only 5-10%, but that's another topic entirely).
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Auto-regressing gens would've been a good idea if they had done it 4 years ago but with the number of regression perks in the game now (Ruin, Pop, Surge, Overcharge, Oppression, etc) they would have to overhaul a massive amount of the game to make it work.
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Well I play killer and don't whine about Dead Hard like you so yes, git gud.
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I have complained about Dh not working for a long time. At best prior to recent update it worked 50% of the time. Now after the update it is maybe 30%. Some how the killer is able to lunge and hit you even when deadharding. Not sure if it’s due to the enormous hit boxes that seem to have been added to the game, the pallet glitch where the killer vacuumed to the same side of the pallet as you when thrown or just a continued unexpressed nerf that continues to happen. However everytime I bring this to attention I am told I am not using it correctly or to try another exhaustion perk. I shouldn’t have to it’s in the game it at the very least prolongs a chase and at best can save your life.
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what your missing is that survivor is not just about wasting most total-time. Its about waste the most CRITICAL total time. If 3 survivors on a generators and your chase lasts 30-60 extra seconds. that's 30-60 extra seconds on all 3 generators. The other thing that people fail realize about dead hard is that it creates psychology that your able to down someone when there was no chance for you to ever get down in safe loop design.
This is in part why other exhaustion perks are not used as much on good loopers. Dead hard attracts commitment on the killer. The other exhaustion perks such as Sprint burst/Lithe/Head on DIVERT ATTENTION away from the killer. they make you not a juicy target. I mean often killers not chase you if your 20 seconds away from them and you sprint burst, but if you wait for them to approach, you could just been running to a loop instead of walking, so the perk wasn't effective. Dead hard hits hardest when it works and its easiest trigger condition to fulfill. Only old balance landing was really comparable to it. SB was mostly only used when exhaustion was recoverable while running because it was so spammable.
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Exactamundo. Play against 4 red rank survivors and it's used by at least two survivors (often times 3 or 4) in just about every match.
And again, a strong perk on 1 player isn't an issue. A strong perk on all 4 though...
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Sprintboost needs exhaustion management, but its not that hard to use midchase. So while i agree with you that the activation makes lithe and balance weaker, this doesnt apply to sprintboost.
Sprintboost is in my opinion the harder to use but better version of dead hard. For example i waste my sprintboost while repairing so i have after gen completion 10sec exhaustion left.
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yeah but what happens if the killer shows up at 20th second of exhaustion left?. I understand 99% exhaustion sprint burst trick, its just that... its not reliable and the reward is what dead hard already does anyway.
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It doesnt work 99 percent of the time, I'm getting hit during my dead hard most of the time. Yeah, so busted
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Agreed. I must say I do not like the idea of a perk that saves you from a situation where you deserve to get downed, but it definitely isn't broken or OP.
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No perk is perfect. I need to make my guess and manage it like that. Is the killer chasing someone, when will he patrol this gen.
But dead hard has some weaknesses too. I cant repair a gen in a deadzone when im injured, no protection against one-shots, exhaustion addons are hardcounter, etc.
Overall i think sprintboost is stronger. So i changed after two years with dead hard to sprintboost.
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as a killer main, you anticipate it. You assume everyone has it. You wait the half second, you swing. If they didnt use it in their first chase, you assume they dont have it. Getting to that window or vault is something you need to learn to assume so long as they havent been cleared of it. Some killers give the option of providing exhaustion. In these situations you always bring it and you just get to play much more agro. My huntress is ALWAYS increased windup speed and exhaustion of some kind. I quick throw a point blank hatchet, 4 seconds later they are downed because I dont HAVE to be careful. The other counter is anyone who can expose or one down. So, Oni, Myers, ghost face, billy, hillbilly, all counter without add ons or perks. Huntress can already counter as I said. You can't dead hard out of a bear trap. That is 70% of the roster right there. Anyone else can be running haunted, devour, make your choice, or any other exposure perk. These also directly counter DS. DS is the ONLY exhaustion perk that is contingent on the killers' actions. It is the glass cannon of exhaustion perks. The most versatile, and one of the most effective, but by far the single easiest exhaustion perk to counter and deny the use of as a killer. This is why DH is fine
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Its nowhere near busted. You have to be smart to get big value out of it. Plus you overestimate the effect. Those who use it correctly get rewarded. Those who are reckless could end up in an even worse position than they already were.
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because they use it and try to steer the focus away from DH for distance by saying herp derp just bait it out🤪
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