Dead Hard sucks the fun out of this game
![[Deleted User]](https://forums.bhvr.com/applications/dashboard/design/images/defaulticon.png)
Good and beloved videogames tend you reward you for playing well and learning the game and predicting your opponent.
In DBD you watch the survivor, you predict their next move, you call it, then make a mistake, you feel rewarded because you predicted them and now you get a hit....but oh no wait they just press E to undo.
It's so bad. It just goes against everything that good games do. When you make a good prediction or make a good play good videogames reward you for it with success in DBD it's all nullified by a stupid perk that lets basically acts as the "undo" button in windows. Just press E and it's all magically ok.
This is such a stupid perk. I know people rag on DS and BT yadda yadda but for me this one perk stands above them all, it's the only perk that makes me lose the motivation to play and I just feel like facecamping because....why not? it's easier and less hassle than chases. Like if I'm not being rewarded for making the right moves in a chase then why bother? might as well just play hook defense. It's basically a kick in the gut for making a good play. All the other perks even current DS I can cope with but this perk really makes me only want to stick to 1 or 2 killers like spirit or PH.
Something needs to change because it can't carry on like this.
Comments
-
Second chance perks in general do.
6 -
Well once you know they have it you can predict them like you said at the start, it's not a big deal. It doesn't even do what it's supposed to half the time anyway.
6 -
Agreed. I hate Dead Hard with a passion rivaled only by Ds+Ub.
4 -
There you encounter Dead Hard, and feel outplayed by E, later you'll encounter Sprint Burst, you'll think holding W is dumb, same for Lithe (just find pallet or window) and Balance Landing (actually it's more difficult to use sometimes you are not in a situation where you can use it, plus there are maps when you can't use it (and it's not normal)). Oh and I won't talk about SWF Head On, that's not broken but HELL it's frustrating.
2 -
Ignoring the people who uses DH to avoid a hit instead of gaining distance and then complain about being exhausted on the ground, yes DH is what you said, an button that allows you to outplay the Killer.
It's especially strong against Nurse, If this perk didn't existed, everyone would be down to a good Nurse in mere seconds.
5 -
Generally when survivors dead hard for distance to a pallet or window, they will 99% of the time drop that pallet or vault that window immediately. Knowing that they will vault or drop a pallet means that in some situations you can just walk around to the other side and hit them.
4 -
So true, sometimes, at short loops, you see the survivor is not looking his back, and the way he's greedy can (and I want to say it has to) lead you to think he has Dead Hard, you can actually play around it, and catch him on the other side of the pallet.
0 -
NOED sucks the fun out of the game for me but "just do bones" I guess. ✌️
4 -
Actually the best way to counter NOED is to NOT cleanse totems, because you'll know where to search. ;)
And if NOED is not one of the totem you knew
Well
Bad luck
0 -
LOL 👍️
1 -
Yes, I chase a survivor towards a window or pallet, I predict they will tap E for distance, they tap E for distance as I predicted....can't do ######### about it.
What a genius comment I can tell you're a pro at this game!
3 -
sometimes you cant do anything even if you do predict it as I mentioned above, when you're gonna be within lunge distance at a window or pallet but the survivor taps E so they have enough distance to make it safely.
Other times you have them make a mistake at a pallet and they vault the wrong side, you gotta take a swing before they vault back. If they dont have DH they vault so you gotta swing immediately, if they do have DH they just use that thus nullyifing your swng. Hmm guess it's my fault for not being psychic.
Its funny DH either requires you to be psyhic or in some situations literally has no counterplay but nerf spirit am I right? tapping E is highly skillful but spirit takes none.
0 -
I know right?
2 -
Comparing a perk to a power is stupid.
A power needs actual hours to learn to use to any levels of effectiveness.
Most if not all perks can be utilized at almost full efficiency in less than one.
Powers change what you are playing in its entirety, and each power gives completely new abilities.
Perks are there to assist you in what you can already do, or give your existing abilities a substantial upgrade.
You shouldn't have to predict a perk, since the only way to tell if someone has them is to see the perk come into play, which can take the whole game. Plus, as I said, they mostly just empower the user to do something they can already do, just better, so for all you know the player could just be really good in most cases.
Powers, however, can be revealed within literal seconds of starting a trial, and once you see the killer, you know what power they have instantly.
1 -
I just played a Legion game, where even though I killed one survivor fairly early into the match because they went AFK, I still struggled to get kills simply because of Dead Hard. Every time I'd mindgame a survivor, they'd just Dead Hard right past me and get to the next loop.
I actually counted how much longer David was able to run me because of his Dead Hard, and it came out to around 45-60 seconds of extra time. And that was only the first time he used it, not counting all the other times he used it and the other survivors also using Dead Hard.
After I killed the Laurie and Claudette, I found the hatch and as I was in the middle of closing it, David Dead Harded to the hatch and jumped in it, even though I basically already shut it.
It was ######### comical how hard Dead Hard carried them. It was by far my best match to showcase how busted this perk is, but sadly I didn't record it.
1 -
You whiff a swing because of one and you're more likely than not still going to be able to hit that Survivor again shortly
Not true at all. You can easily make it around an entire loop from one whiff. More importantly though is the fact that 90% of the time it's used for distance in which case there is no whiff because you never swing. Its like everyone here plays in green ranks where survivors just DH in an open field. Yeah those dead hards have never been the problem, the problem is its overpowered at high level play
0 -
thanks for that this is my entire point. It cripples M1 killers because the entire chase mechanics revolve around the survivor making mistakes, when they have an undo button it acts as a third health state. It's not as annoying a perk on killers like spirit or PH - killers that can get hits at loops because you often have a chance to get hits with them but it's so bad against myers, legion, pig etc etc
It can grant the survivor 5 seconds in a chase or it can as you say grant them 45-60 seconds. It's kind of like DS before the work against enduring, its power depended on where it was used. Use it in a dead zone and it adds a few seconds at best however use it near a strong pallet or window and this allows you to carry the chase on and combo it into more loops.
Other exhaustion perks can be annoying, particularly sprint burst, but at least they don't operate as an undo button. If you make a mistake in a loop or get mindgamed, you can't just tap E to balanced landing or lithe to correct it. That's the big difference between DH and other exhaustion perks imo. Others are situational, DH corrects survivor mistakes and takes away the rewarding feeling killers should have when outplaying a survivor
1 -
You said it was just a few seconds, now you’re saying its comparable to sprint burst....on demand....with no downsides.
and killers judging from these forums and any youtube comments dont feel they have control. Sure theres always a vocal minority but I cant think of many people happy with the state of killer
0 -
Yes I am, because it carried them. I'm not mad I got a 3k, I'm mad that I was more so playing against Dead Hard than actual survivors.
0 -
If a surv has Dead hard delay your hit if you can.
0 -
This title can be said about a lot of perks that don't even cross your mind. Prove Thyself can make gens pop before you can cross the map, but no one really thinks about it.
0 -
Gens popping is a part of the game and it's inevitable, that gen was already likely to go if it was at the other side of the map, the whole game is about selecting an objective to secure and you have to sacrifice them. Prove Thyself just makes the process quicker.
Also Prove Thyself requires 2 people on 1-gen which might be preferable to having people spread on gens, so its risky.
Dead Hard is a little different as you have dedicated time and effort into that chase, and essentially that time (and more) is wasted when it is extended with Dead Hard.
So I guess Dead Hard is always literally in your face which is why it's more of a visible problem.
0 -
Yeah the second-chance kind of perks always feel like a kick to the gut. If you had the choice between making gens 10 seconds shorter and giving survivors free kindred vs bringing back original MoM or original DS most killers would pick the shorter gens because it doesn't feel as awful as playing well and then getting a big F-U for it.
1 -
It's as simple as not swinging until you're right behind a Survivor. The ######### is Dead Hard going to do then?
Dead Hard is a very strong perk, yes, but it's not the Survivor's fault that you're too bad to play around it. I'm a Demogorgon main, a Killer who struggles a decent bit against Dead Hard because of how bad it is to miss a shred, and I haven't felt that it's overpowered in the past 100 or so hours of playing. At red ranks. If a red rank Killer main who plays a low tier Killer doesn't see the problem, I don't think there's a problem.
Also, you need to learn optimal times to use a perk too. Clicking E at the perfect moment takes skill, just like clicking m2 does. So does 99ing your Exhaustion meter to be running, stop for one moment, and get a Sprint Burst in the Killer's face. Knowing went to use the initial Sprint Burst also takes skill. So does knowing the optimal time to trigger Lithe. Whether you like it or not, Survivors need to have skill too.
0 -
I didn't say I couldn't deal with it. I was responding to someone who was saying that survivors having perks was equal and opposite to killers having powers.
I can deal with Dead Hard, I just find it frustrating when I have to nearly restart one of the two chases I need to down this one survivor.
0 -
I shouldve quoted others and divided it in a way that made it apparent who I was talking to, sorry about that.
1 -
You kinda sound crazy and a bit dramatic, dead hard isn't that good. Wanting to face-camp because you missed a hit because of dead hard? You sound very entitled and toxic.
0 -
If you're playing a killer who isn't great in chase but is effective at camping then why not? it's a strategy with that character, Survivors running to the most busted areas of maps over and over again with second chance perks galore and undo buttons isn't much of an incentive to chase is it? not when you have a killer who can easily confirm kills.
0 -
....
Just wait.
Seriously, dead hard is the weakest exhaustion perk against everyone except Nurse. At best, it's on par with head-on. It doesn't help you at all in 99.9% of situations if the killer knows you have it. And if you're not an ass killer, you'll just assume the survivor does have it.
All it really does is force you to not lunge. If you get in tapping range, they're #########. And don't start with the "dead hard for distance" bullshit. That would be the 0.1% of situations. Not only do you have to be ahead of the killer already enough to get use out of it, you have to be completely out of their lunge range, too, otherwise they can just lunge into the pallet/window with your deadhard and still down you. And in that 0.1% of situations, it bought you no more time than sprint burst would have in the first place.
It's literally only meta because it's such a strong anti-nurse perk. Nurse doesn't have the option to avoid it like other killers, so it essentially gives you a third health state against her. If Nurse never existed, Dead Hard wouldn't be meta. That and there's probably a psychological aspect to it tapping a button on demand makes you feel more "involved" in using it.
If you're crying about "Dead Hard", you really do just need to get good.
0 -
"If you're crying about "Dead Hard", you really do just need to get good."
This coming from the guy who plays at rank 15. Know how I know?
" And don't start with the "dead hard for distance" bullshit. That would be the 0.1% of situations."
That's why. Saying it's 0.1% of situations, no good survivors use it for distance the vast majority of the time.
"Not only do you have to be ahead of the killer already enough to get use out of it, you have to be completely out of their lunge range, too,"
See this really makes me think you're playing against noobs because you don't seem to get it. If I'm using say Myers and chasing a survivor who is a little ahead of me towards a pallet or a vault, I know based on the distance between us and a general feeling of speed whether or not I'm going to be able to catch up to within lunge distance by the time the survivor gets to the pallet/vault. This is when DH for distance comes in handy, because you tap E and now the killer has no chance of getting within lunge distance in time.
0 -
Dead Hard is not that a OP perk seriously...
First of all, dont press the attack when you are in hit range... wait to see if a surv will use dead hard...
If you ever notice a survivor using dead hard, just remember who it is and don't let you get by this again the next time you pursue this surv.
This perk lasts like... half a second... survivors must use it on the right moment... take that at your advantage.
I play killer, yes sometimes dead hard pisses me off, but I won't say it is a OP perk like a lot say (which I don't understand seriously)
0 -
What planet are you living on?
0 -
Explain to me why killers have such an issue with Dead Hard, DS, Unbreakable. Dead hard doesn’t even work a lot of the times and is easily predictable, most survivors don’t use DS as an. Aggressive perk just to prevent tunneling, unbreakable isn’t a big issue either. But then again I am a Spirit main so I’ve never cared about most perks
0 -
- Although I dislike them, I only hate Ds and Ub when they're paired together.
- The problem with Dead Hard, is that when it's used for distance it has no counter. Which is why I hate it so much. You can always tell when a survivor is going to use it, but as I said if they use it for distance, you can't do anything about it.
1
