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Any thoughts on changing last survivor hatch escape?
I recently got back into DBD and have played a number of killer games where I kill 3 survivors and stop them from doing any gens but the last survivor just uses the hatch. I feel like this indirectly penalizes killers for killing survivors since he loses his earned advantage. Any chance they would bring back 2 generators completed requirement before hatch spawns opened?
Comments
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Personally I think the Hatch should be earned by the last Survivor and not given. I think after the 3rd Survivor has been sacrificed the last Survivor gains a huge bonus to their repair speed. The Hatch does not open untill the last Survivor has finished a Generator.
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I think hatch can be replaced with EGC at this point so the last survivor has to earn their escape, not just luck into it. Of course door spawns would have to be fixed as well so they can't be on the same wall, ideally they would be fixed location across the map from each other like on Lery's and such.
1 survivor left, EGC starts and hatch spawns in closed and a key can open it. Keys still have a use, but only 1 survivor can use it, and hatch challenges/achievements are still doable. Gits rid of the luck based hatch race.
Just my personal idea.
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As a Killer main, I don't really feel the same way. If I've killed 3 Survivors, I've already "won" that trial. The last guy having a chance to get out is fine and it being RNG-based isn't much skin off my teeth.
This is doubly true with the hatch rework. As the Killer, you have (effectively) won if you find either the Hatch or the Survivor, the Survivor needs to find the Hatch before stumbling into and getting downed by you. This automatically puts the Killer at the advantage in the hatch endgame, as it should be.
While I'm not against the idea that other concepts for endgame could be more interesting, I've yet to actually hear one. To critique the three options presented so far in this thread:
This would mean if the Survivor team gets truly stomped and can't complete two gens, the game will essentially slow to a crawl once the last Survivor is left standing. Doubly so if they didn't even complete one gen.
Once again this would most likely slow the game to a crawl especially if the Killer has set up a successful 3-gen. Besides, I don't think there is a level of repair speed buff that would make gen patrolling against a solo Survivor a fun and fair situation for both sides, it would either result in even mediocre Killers being able to totally lock down the game, or a Survivor repairing and finishing gens before a Killer can physically reach the gen. Generators as a mechanic really, really require multiple Survivors to be in play for them to work.
Even if we assume Exit Gates are rebalanced so they aren't adjacent (and while we're at it, let's also assume the spots where you can watch both gates at once are also no longer a thing), Killers will essentially never lose against a solo Survivor with the Exit Gates being powered unless they ######### up monumentally with the Survivor able to successfully hide somewhere after putting some power on an Exit Gate.
I mean, think about the current hatch endgame. If you close the Hatch, how many times does the last Survivor actually manage to open an Exit Gate? Excluding the times I've allowed a Survivor to do so, I don't think it's happened to me once.
And on top of that, many Killers like Hillbilly, Demogorgon, Huntress, Trapper, ecetera have the odds tilted even further in this situation towards their side.
TL:DR: Yes, the hatch endgame is essentially a roll of the dice as to if the last Survivor makes it or if the Killer gets a completed 4K. In my opinion, that isn't a problem.
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I completely understand your point of view and I know that what people think of the Hatch will always remain an opinion, some people are fine with it while others are not.
I would like to explain why I believe what I do.
As a Survivor main my favorite moments in the game were the moments when I was the last Survivor remaining in the Trial. The thrill of trying to beat the Killer on my own were my favorite moments. That is also the reason why the old version of the perk Left Behind was my favorite perk. The introduction of The Endgame Collapse completely took that away. Of course I won't deny that The EGC was a big improvement. What I would like is to bring that kind of gameplay back to the game and improve it so that the Survivors do not have the ability to hold the game hostage while also not make the Survivors completely hopeless. I am writing my own ideas for this.
Of course this will alway remain my opinion and I doubt that I can convince enough people of my ideas, but I can hope. :)
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Ah, so basically old Left Behind!... which would lead to survivor hiding most of the time because just touching a generator would most likely be a death sentence (unless the bonus is like.... 400%?).
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I agree. Whatever gets changed needs to make it so the last survivor doesn't "luck" into finding the Hatch, but rather makes them work for it. Unfortunately I think any change to this results in what Killers already believe is "unfair" to them, becoming "unfair" to the Survivors. Killers can attempt to avoid this situation by slugging the 3rd survivor while they search for and finish off the 4th, and it sometimes works but still kinda comes down to luck, it's just a bit less favorable to the last survivor since they will only be able to crawl in search of hatch, but somehow they still manage to get there, again, lucking into it by being downed near where it spawns or the Killer taking too long to finish the 4th survivor and then losing where the slugged one crawled off to.
Regardless, I have some ideas:
- Hatch doesn't spawn for last Survivor if there are still 3+ gens left. At 2 gens remaining, it spawns. My thoughts on this are that 2 gens remaining is a decently close game, so last survivor should be given a chance at escape. If 3 or more gens remain...the Killer did their job, so the Survivor can take the L and die with dignity or, continue the fight - no free hatch.
- In addition to the above, increased heal/mend/repair speed for the last survivor. No sure on an appropriate percentage to use here that'd be fair, I'd say at least 40%, maybe even 50% minimum, with further increases from items/add-ons/perks being possible.
- Give Killer the Hatch aura. Might seem OP but it gives the Killer the option to defend the Hatch, at risk of the Survivor (with their buffed repair speed) getting the last 2 gens done. Alternately, (and probably more frequently), the Killer could just close Hatch, but this is also a risk as the Survivor could be waiting by a door for that to happen. Also prevents the game from being delayed if survivor decides to just afk or something.
Some of this may be too much. I think the first point should be a primary consideration though, along with the second point. I know some will say even that isn't "fair" because the last survivor could have played really well while having crappy team mates that suicided on hook, were AFK, etc, and so the last survivor shouldn't be "punished" but imo, that's just the way it goes. You can't balance the game based on those sorts of things because it's impossible to know for sure WHY they played (or didn't play) the way they did. Besides, the whole reason we're even discussing this is because some Killers feel it isn't "fair" that they do their job and the last survivor gets a free escape. So, what IS "fair?"
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Like I said I am still working on my ideas, they are not finished yet.
A 400% bonus would mean that a Survivor can complete a Generator from 0% in only 16 seconds, I think that is way to much.
The bonus must be just right so that neither the Survivor nor the Killer feels completely powerless.
I was thinking that the repair speed bonus increases for each Generator completed during the Trial. This is to reward the Survivor and to compensate for the fact that the fewer Generators are left to be completed the Killer can patrol the map faster. I was thinking about these numbers:
- 5 Generators left--> 75% bonus--> 45,71 seconds to complete a Generator from 0%
- 4 Generators left--> 90% bonus--> 42,11 seconds to complete a Generator from 0%
- 3 Generators left --> 105% bonus--> 39,02 seconds to complete a Generator from 0%
- 2 Generators left--> 120% bonus--> 36,36 seconds to complete a Generator from 0%
- 1 Generator left --> 135% bonus--> 34,04 seconds to complete a Generator from 0%
Of course these numbers could still be tweaked if it would turn out to be too much or not enough.
Basically my idea is the following:
- After the 3rd Survivor has been sacrificed The Endgame Collapse activates, the timer will have to be longer.
- The Hatch now becomes now visible, but it does not open.
- The last Survivor gains the repair speed bonus (see numbers above).
- If they can finish a Generator, the Hatch will open and the Survivor can escape.
- If the Killer gets to the Hatch first they can close the Hatch and the Survivor has to finish another Generator.
This is of course simplified and a lot of details need to be worked out, I am working on that.
Thank you :)
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I have an idea too on how we can bring this about
The last Survivor should earn the Hatch:
- After the 3rd Survivor has been sacrificed The Endgame Collapse activates, the timer will have to be longer.
- The Hatch now becomes now visible, but it does not open.
- The last Survivor gains the repair speed bonus (numbers could be tweaked).
- 5 Generators left--> 75% bonus--> 45,71 seconds to complete a Generator from 0%
- 4 Generators left--> 90% bonus--> 42,11 seconds to complete a Generator from 0%
- 3 Generators left --> 105% bonus--> 39,02 seconds to complete a Generator from 0%
- 2 Generators left--> 120% bonus--> 36,36 seconds to complete a Generator from 0%
- 1 Generator left --> 135% bonus--> 34,04 seconds to complete a Generator from 0%
- If the Killer gets to the Hatch first they can close the Hatch and the Survivor has to finish another Generator.
- If they can finish a Generator, the Hatch will open and the Survivor can escape.
This is of course simplified and a lot of details need to be worked out, I am working on that.
Thank you :)
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the last survivor escaping by hatch is fine for these reasons;
- The killer is faster, has explored more of the map by patrolling and chasing, and doesn't have to slow down when looking for hatch unlike survivor if they want to avoid being caught.
- The killer closing hatch has a higher priority than survivors jumping in meaning if you and the survivor press the button for hatch the same time or near the same time the killer closes it.
- The survivor has no chance of escape so they need some initiative to continue playing the killer has also already won at this point so it is fair if they do or don't escape as the killer still wins. if hatch gets closed depending on gate spawn which they often spwn close survivors might not have a chance at all especially if your a mobility killer.
- if the hatch has been found because of the reasons above and the killer sacrifices the 3rd survivor the killer will very likely get to the hatch before it opens and then close it.
The problem with hatch the ONLY problem is how it is opened with keys that aspect of it regardless of how uncommon is complete bs, i have made a rework idea to fix that aspect of it here.
edit: as for the guys who think survivor should earn it that wont happen, last survivor hatch escapes are balanced and fair and also fits the lore of the game where the entity feeds on hope. you guys just want easier 4k's admit it.
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