Yes, it's about DS
I mean it needs a change. Yes. But does it need the current idea change, fuckn hell no. And let me explain why:
Current change is basically now: Once unhooked, you have 1 minute of DS at tier 3 so if you go down by tunneling, you get an escape of shoulder free card. But doing literally anything will negate it. Ok. So same as before but now you cant do anything.
Heres why that doesnt work for survivor more than it does for killer.
A survivor with 1 minute DS must now make a choice.
Option 1: Be useless for a full minute doing nothing to progress the team for the sake of holding on to DS. Deliberately get tunneled but killer picks up on this... slug. Useless anyways.
Option two: Waste DS in that split second thinking the killer is going for someone else, attempt heal, 20 to 30 seconds later, killer spots you, downs you. DS useless.
Option 3: jump in and out of a locker in Hope's the killer will grab you. Killer realises you're being useless... DS useless.
Option 4: On the off chance you may or may not have interacted with something if the killer comes back to you after 40 seconds and downs you. Get slugged on the off chance killer still thinks you have DS... DS useless.
Or Option 5: You do get tunneled and by some miracle not slugged.
So I ask... how is making a survivor perk benefit the killer more a good thing? I mean, it's now made to be an "Anti-Tunnel" perk now but all that is defeated by simply slugging... as it was before change. I get it, I play mostly killer and I dislike eating DS's when I dont deliberately tunnel. I am guilty of slugging sometimes depending on how much they pissed me off. Other times I will deliberately eat a DS.
But this change is dogshit for survivors and now it's gone from a garunteed survivor freebie to a garunteed win win killer freebie. Cause 4 out of these 5 options benefit killer more than survivors. And if you had more than one with DS at once, that's twice as bad for them.
I say again, this needs a good balanced change. Not this current idea that makes them be punished if you potato for a minute, or punished cause you tried doing something but got tunneled 30 seconds later.
Comments
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"or punished cause you tried doing something but got tunneled 30 seconds later."
Last line of your post says it all. You're not being tunneled if you do something and then 30 seconds later the killer goes for you.
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Like I said in another tread already: they should make the nerfed version of DS basekit.
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It stops you from being rehooked immediately. At least you have some chance to survive that way. If he slugs you and just waits there, your team gets a little more time for gens or something.
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I must have missed it. It would be an idea but maybe not a full minute to be fair. Maybe 40 seconds.
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Just run Unbreakable simple as that.
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That would be perfect. At least then if you're fully healed, you would have had enough time to do it in the first place. You're being progressive too so all in all, at least being allowed to heal fully before losing it would be wizard.
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Every killers complaint, ugh they got DS so I'm gonna slug so they dont get a free. Damn they got up with Unbreakable, damn freebie.
It's a lame argument to just run another crutch perk everyone complains about to solve the issue of another perk everyone complains about. You shouldnt need 2 perks to get 1 effect.
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After I get unhooked I usually like to heal, I've never been one to abuse DS by rushing gens with it (unless desperate)
I often run inner strength so it doesn't bother me too much. That won't turn it off and if I do heal and it looks quiet then I can get on a gen and im not being tunneled. Only a stealth killer would be troublesome especially since they tunnel the most but just make sure the coast is clear before touching a gen.
I sometimes swap innner strength for iron will. In this case if another heals me I'm ok. Maybe if nobody is around I have to do a gen and lose DS but you make sure the killer is pre-occupied first.
I feel it's not too much of an issue for me. For self-care gamers though perhaps, it's totally possible for a tunneling killer to take a few seconds to start coming back but to ultimately come looking for you for the tunnel. Personally as someone who plays both roles I wouldn't be against healing/self-caring being allowed with new DS but absolutely the ability to do generators need to be removed.
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So now we have to run DS/Unbreakable to prevent slugging? The exact combo that you guys cried we use too much and is the main reason DS got nerfed to begin with?
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So what's wrong with a perk having good synergy with another perk or power? Nothing Pop+Thrilling Problem with pop don't know which gen to go to. Thrilling can't utilize slowing the gen with nothing. They synergize. Ruin+Tinkerer Ruin need to find a gen to interrupt. Tinkerer need something to easily get the gen down. They synergize. Oni's power people will stealth with it. Infectious need a killer to snowball they synergize. DS+Unbreakable DS you can just get slugged Unbreakable you can just get picked up. They counter each other's weaknesses.
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Option 1: That's on the surv for deciding to do nothing for a full minute. If the killer is around then hide or take a risk and heal.
Option 2: That's still the survs fault for not hiding better or not accounting for the killer having nurse's calling.
Option 3: Still wasting your time hoping in and out of a locker. People still do this with current DS so nothing changes with the nerf.
Option 4: Within that 40s you could have healed, instead you choose the risk of staying injured and are being punished for it.
Option 5: You get tunneled right off the hook, if they didn't slug you either the chase has gone longer than 60s, or you they down you before 60s and you hit them with ds.
There are alot of issues with the DS nerf, but all the examples you gave are a survivor making a mistakes and DS no longer being there to save them.
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Exactly my point 😂 it made no sense
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DS got nerfed because it could be abused. No problem with DS+UB might've once but I don't anymore. And don't assume me a killer main. I play both sides.
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It's the fact that 1, those 2 shouldnt need to. And to run 2 perks killers complain about rather than 1 just to deal with the fault of the first is a joke. It's not that they synergize, they're not working together in unison. What you suggested is a backup of a backup. A plan C to a plan B. Where as Pop and Thrilling work at the same time in unison. Ruin and Surveillance working at the same time.
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The developers want there to be tunneling in this game. While understandably there will be some tunneling to some extent, they should have never tried to feature a half-assed attempt to counter it through a perk.
Anti-tunnel would suggest that the killer will suffer the consequences of tunneling via the perk itself, meanwhile they slug, and not only do they get free pressure, counter a perk, but force teammates off gens as well to pick that person up. That isn't suffering a consequence.
Apparently people also think that tunneling only happens right-off the hook. You know you can hook someone and 15 seconds later seek that same survivor and decide you wanna take them out of the game right? Yeah, apparently the fact that the perk has a timer doesn't signify at all how long a killer can be on the lookout for you.
They made a perk to soft-counter scummy actions, which now has been given even more conditions in this game which is just the cherry on top.
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How do DS+UB not work in unison? Just about every combo is a backup for the weakness of the other combination DS+UB is no different.
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Pretty sure IS will turn DS off
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No they said that one is fine. All you're doing is standing in a locker. It's anything that requires you to press M1 as survivor that disables it, apart from opening exit gates I think
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Self care works too then? isnt it m2?
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Incorrect; you do not pass go, and do not collect $200.00. Your entire premise is wrong because you are working under the assumption that you CANNOT do anything for (60) seconds or DS turns off. That is because you are STILL trying to operate under the framework of using DS aggressively. As soon as you are SAFE, feel free to get on anything you want. Consider the following:
- Killer does not follow you. It does get wasted. You can get on anything you want.
- Killer does tunnel you immediately; you use DS and get a 2nd chance.
- You move off and squat like a toad wanting to save that DS for some reason.
Two out of three of these options are fine for you as a Survivor. Only ONE of them works in favor of the Killer (most of the time). Look if you want to squat like a toad, more power to you, but you don't HAVE to do anything. The only reason to do it is because you are hoping to stun that Killer. That is your choice. But if the Killer does NOT immediately tunnel you, the DS isn't going to be wasted anyway.
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I don't really like this change, in my opinion it should be: Once unhooked, If you are the first person downed, when you are next picked up by the killer succeeding a skill check will stun the killer for 4/5/6 seconds.
Post edited by TheButcher6641 on0 -
^ this,
people are stuck in to being entitled to use DS by literally any means necessary, it's as if it's there precious first born or some #########, they are determined to have it and keep no matter what and if I have to be a garbage teammate to use ds then it's the games fault for not allowing me to abuse the long timer when not being tunneled.
Also slugging is only a legit strat when the killer actually has a reason to do it, not whenever so stop acting like slugging is always a loss for DS, because you still save a hook state and you still have a 59 sec DS possibility, which literally wins you the game almost 100% of the time - not to mention tunneling is also throwing but ok.
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Ummmmm...... how bout no.
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No.
Healing yourself via self-care or med kit
healing others
doing a gen
doing a totem
All of those disable it. Standing in a locker doesn't, that's why inner strength will work.
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If you have time to do anything, you are not being tunneled.
/thread
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By your logic a killer can tunnel 4 survivors at the same time. Seem legit.
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Just...no
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this does NOT benefit the killer what so ever. what was this nonsense about letting a killer's power positively affect a survivor? that's nonsense!!! no other killer powers directly benefit the survivors, yet clown's now does. hmmm
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No, If you have actual survivors abuse this with 4 man swf using it to unhook / heal / do a gen in your face as a mid-tier to low tier killer will completely gut your chances of winning, The new nerf is 100% needed
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Why not tho, care to explain?
They could even cut the timer to 40 seconds and make it so it deactivates when the killer hooks someone else. It would legit ONLY punish tunneling. Why would you be against it?
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nope.
do survivors really think that being found on a gen next to the hook the came off 30 seconds later is actually being tunnelled?
Do survivors really think that the killer has a set goal in their mind to search for them and only them when they randomly bump into them on a different part of the map?
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Here's a situation a run into quite often where SWF squads are abusing their DS that this nerf is going to rectify:
I've got two survivors on a hook. One of them gets saved with BT and immediately runs to get the other unhook with BT. There's literally nothing I can do as killer to stop them from taking away a massive amount of pressure. The two healthy survivors are going to ghost off and do gens and if I can't find them I've got no choice but to chase survivors who can't be re-hooked for another 60 seconds.
Every time I've used DS as a survivor recently will still work with the new changes, which is why I'm still gonna be running it.
It's a great perk for preventing naughty killer behavior, but it's also easy to abuse by squads who know that it still works even when the killer isn't tunnelling. That's why I'm applauding these changes.
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Because the problem with this perk is that it for the longest time was honestly just a band-aid fix for tunneling. We need BHVR to actually fix tunneling just in general. Tunneling can sometimes be the only option the killer can do in the current state of the game, and this would just make it not nearly as reliable. Making perks base kit is not the solution to the underlying problem which is just core game design.
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For me it seems like a perfect fix to tunneling? How would you do it if not by having some basekit thing that simply denies it completely? I mean the killer can still slug.
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