And this is why everything should be hidden in the lobby:
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Honestly no matter what is done to the game there will always be some sort counterplay against killers that can't be avoided. Killers just have to accept there will be things that they can't do much about against swf teams (like someone running OoO and telling their team where the killer is the entire game). It sucks but thqts just how it is. Killers need be given more to have fun even against swf teams because 96% swf games are just not fun as killer
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^ this. Why does anyone care if you see killers dodge a lobby? It's not like you have the good days of being booted to the menu, reform your swf and wait again.
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I'll have to respectfully disagree with you there, because I genuinely don't believe the game is stacked against killer for the average player. In my experience, the game is only truly stacked against you when you get bad map RNG (which goes both ways, as Survivors can get bad map RNG as well), you make a misplay somewhere or do something pretty major to lose you the match, or you just get paired with people who are better then you. (Which, again, can happen on both sides.) Sure, you can get a squad that is great at the game and uses all second chance perks. But I mean... just look at more seasoned and experienced players who have gone against those teams in their matches, and still came out with a decent kill ratio because they made better plays.
My point is, yes, Survivor is the power role at the top percent of the game. However, the amount of power that Survivors have is based on their own abilities to play well, and communicate. And that's just not there in most matches, and the amount of teams that are insanely good and practically unbeatable are rare, and few and far between. Not every SWF you go against is a a toxic sweat squad who want to bully the killer into a DC. People just remembers those games more then the ones where the entire SWF was following you around in a conga line as they worshipped you for memes and let you get a 4k.
And your example was a pretty bad one. Keys weren't free wins. If you 4k at 5-3 gens, they weren't getting out, especially if you slugged the last guy for the 4k. You can also run perks like Franklins to mitigate them entirely, unless the team is super coordinated. (Which, once again, is a rarity, and can also buy you time.) If keys were in effect, then it's because the Survivors did their objectives. Hatch doesn't spawn at 5 gens. This also isn't even mentioning the fact that the extact scenario you mentioned is one that can happen quite a bit for Survivors. When a killer gets a down when all gens are done, and no one has BT (Because not everyone runs super metabuilds 24/7.) or maybe even DS (Or, it's a killer that can defend their Camp well) that Survivor most likely isn't going to escape. And honestly? Just like losing that fourth Survivor to a key or hatch escape when you decimate as Killer, because that was the only reason they even had a chance of escape when you decimated them, I personally don't mind the last guy who got hooked dying to the Killer, especially if it's me. And especially if the Killer had struggled all game. Nothing feels worse then a 0k. And, without that, then just like with playing Survivor where the Hatch becomes your only possible escape, it becomes the only possible way a Killer can get a kill. And personally, I don't think we should judge or be negative about that. Just means we should get better when you're the killer that has to camp for the 1k, or you and your group need to play better next time if it came down to hatch escape.
Idk, I just really don't think either are that bad. I don't think we should promote the idea that a win for killer is only if they get a 4k, or a win for Survivor is only if they get a 4man escape. Imho something as low as a 2k or 2man escape should be considered a win. Feels like the community doesn't agree with that though imho.
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Only lobby i ever dodged was a group of p3 blendettes. No thank you lol
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i just wish they would show us the killer's name at the very least so i can see their steam profile if pc. it's only fair imo. they can always make their profiles private if they have a problem with it.
i don't care about lobby dodging but i think it's funny how serious they take the game that they go to those lengths.
i also can't tell you the amount of post game chats i've had of the killer saying "i knew i should have dodged, ######### swf" when the entire lobby is solo. it's really pathetic lol.
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The only rework I can ever see happening to keys is having to do a long animation in unlocking the hatch, kinda like opening up a chest. Gives the killer a chance to stop you.
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My solution:
1) Don't show any items or characters and stuff until everyone is in the lobby.
2) Once everyone is in, show everyone's ping and give everyone the option to either accept or leave (if one or more players leave, repeat steps 1 and 2 again)
3) Once everyone accepts, Survivor characters and items can be seen, and no one can leave the lobby without getting a disconnect penalty
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"I'll have to respectfully disagree with you there, because I genuinely don't believe the game is stacked against killer for the average player."
No one is talking about for the average player. The average player is bad. I'm talking about against "good" survivors.
"In my experience, the game is only truly stacked against you when you get bad map RNG (which goes both ways, as Survivors can get bad map RNG as well)"
More often than not it is in the survivors favor. Most maps are in the survivors favor as well.
"But I mean... just look at more seasoned and experienced players who have gone against those teams in their matches, and still came out with a decent kill ratio because they made better plays."
I don't think you watched them. Against good survivors the good killers are getting trashed unless they're on Nurse and sometimes Spirit. The other killers played literally just face camp 2 people to death and hope for a 3rd from NOED....
"My point is, yes, Survivor is the power role at the top percent of the game. However, the amount of power that Survivors have is based on their own abilities to play well, and communicate. And that's just not there in most matches, and the amount of teams that are insanely good and practically unbeatable are rare, and few and far between."
You are missing my point entirely. Whether those teams are common or extremely rare is irrelevant for the point I am making here. The point is not if the game is balanced against bad players. The point is if the game is balanced when it's good vs good players, which it's not. IF the game is balanced has nothing to do with the occurrence rate. We are strictly talking about balance as a topic, not as an average.
"Not every SWF you go against is a a toxic sweat squad who want to bully the killer into a DC."
No one is saying they are.
"And your example was a pretty bad one. Keys weren't free wins. If you 4k at 5-3 gens, they weren't getting out, especially if you slugged the last guy for the 4k. You can also run perks like Franklins to mitigate them entirely, unless the team is super coordinated. (Which, once again, is a rarity, and can also buy you time.)"
Franklins is a trash/meme perk, it is not countering keys.
"If keys were in effect, then it's because the Survivors did their objectives. Hatch doesn't spawn at 5 gens."
PART of their objective. Not their objective as a whole. Does a killer getting 1k mean a free second kill because he did part of his objective? No, he's expected to earn each kill. The hatch is rewarding you when you lost. Lost a little, lost a lot, irrelevant, you lost.
"This also isn't even mentioning the fact that the extact scenario you mentioned is one that can happen quite a bit for Survivors. When a killer gets a down when all gens are done, and no one has BT (Because not everyone runs super metabuilds 24/7.) or maybe even DS (Or, it's a killer that can defend their Camp well) that Survivor most likely isn't going to escape"
Dude common, seriously? Whens the last game you played without seeing at least 2 BT's and 2 DS's minimum? Weeks for me, at least. Not to mention you don't even need them. Conga line body block for the unhook and gate run. Decently plausible against most killers. Note that I am not defending this type of play, I'd like something changed with this as well. Just pointing out that your statement is highly disingenuous to the reality in that situation.
"Nothing feels worse then a 0k."
I don't care about a killer getting a 0k. A kill gained from standing their face camping isn't earned. He earned the hook, not the kill.
"Idk, I just really don't think either are that bad. I don't think we should promote the idea that a win for killer is only if they get a 4k, or a win for Survivor is only if they get a 4man escape."
Who are we talking about promoting that? I wouldn't agree with either of those.
"Imho something as low as a 2k or 2man escape should be considered a win. Feels like the community doesn't agree with that though imho."
I don't think kills should be the judgement of winning in the first place. There are way too many factors skewing that number to be good for measuring balance.
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But then what of perks like franklins or actually lightborne franklins ya can make a case but lightbornes useless if theres no flashlights at all. (Franklins can work if someone chest loots)
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Its been a good year since I last lobby dodged, the only time I dodge lobbies in current dbd is if I have to use the bathroom but just got into a lobby
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