Honesty think most survivors get carried by the maps
Back to back haddonsfield then after that I got Gideon meat plant after that I got lerys. The survivors weren't even good in chase, they dropped pallets so early and just held W. They were only good at being efficient on gens which is annoying because if I'm dominating every chase, shouldn't I be winning? This is exactly why I love dead dawg and shelter woods because those maps don't spam safe loop into god pallets, survivors have to actually manage resources and work more as a team.
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But if you're dominating the chases to the point it takes second to end, the survivors should struggle at doing gens because of unhooking simulator. While there are 4 survivors you really have to take them away from the gens, give them choices to make.
I agree that Haddonfield and Gideon are safer places, but Lery's isn't so much.
As example, yesterday I faced a rank 2 nurse that was optimal in chase and used ruin + haunted ground + undying + bbq. Fortunately I was running a totem build because of noed. She was totally dominating the game until ruin was down, because she was just too good. But even after ruin was gone, she continued the game of scare people from gens with a hit and not commit to the chase as we pulled her away, so in the end she was able to only kill one. Didn't we deserve to win, just because we were bad at chases? I don't think so, because we countered her game and she didn't adapt. She didn't want to risk one survivor escaping and for that she lost 3.
I think being able to adapt your game is crucial to hit your goal and that's exciting. The game isn't only about chases, and that is one part that makes it fun for me, because I'm not very good chases both as killer and survivor, but I can play around with stealth, deceive the other part and so on.
I like Saloon, but I hate the Deadzone Woods (as survivor... as killer it's good). On that regard, I think if it's ok to have so unsafe places (just like Hawkins too), there should be safer ones too.
The other day I faced the same Billy with the same build in Autohaven deadzones and then in Haddonfield, one match after the other, and the result was totally opposite, one from the other. And I think that's ok, it's part of everyone's rng, I guess.
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Therein lies the issue.
Even if Survivors are bad and have short, 30 second chases, they will likely still win if the Killer doesn't tunnel someone out.
If each Survivor gives a short 30 second chase, that's about 360 total seconds spent chasing, which is very generous, most Survivors can loop for longer than that. Doing 5 gens take 400 seconds, roughly, without travel time.
That means there is a 40 second difference between the chase time and gen time. That's one slightly longer chase, or one mistake, away from the Killer losing the game.
You can literally be awful at chases and still win simply because gens are ridiculous.
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Dead dawg is close to balanced but shelter woods is just terrible.
If survivors are gen jockeys try to slug more often
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You cant really say that there is a 40sec difference. Gen time is splitted for 4 people. Atleast in the beginning more people then one work on gens.
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I can, but here.
Let's say the Survivors spawn in groups of two. One group gets their gen done in 44 seconds. The other, the Killer finds them and chases one off, so it takes them 66 seconds instead. That's 110. The other two go and work on another gen together, while the 3rd goes to unhook. The others get a 3rd gen done, that's 154 seconds. 3rd gets downed unhooking the 4th, 4th runs to the other two and the 2nd Survivor goes for the unhook. 1st and 3rd Survivor spend 16 seconds healing, then start on a gen. 2nd Survivor manages to run the Killer for a bit, 4th gen pops in ~40 seconds. By the time the 2nd is hooked, everyone is healed, since it only took 8 seconds. Two start on a gen, 1st Survivor goes for the unhook. Runs the Killer for a bit after unhooking, last gen pops.
That's a total of 262 seconds, but it isn't accounting for travel time, so I'll add another 100 seconds for that. 362 seconds for all 5 gens on a team that can't run the Killer for more than 30 seconds.
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Since most survivors only know how to loop, then yes, they get carried by the maps.
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Then you would need to add the travel time for the killer, too.
I think the difference is greater then 40 sec.
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Unless you are talking about the beginning of the game, there is no travel time, or it is very slight. For the sake of the argument, I will add 30 seconds to the Killer's time.
That's 430 - 362 = 68 seconds.
Again, that's either one long chase or two medium chases. Not a lot of room for error.
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You dont need to say that theres not a lot of room for error. With my calculation there is even less room.
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That was my point. You get one, maybe two mistakes if the Survivors are bad.
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All i see in these comments is "if the survivors are bad then [...]"
Didn't you consider the opposite? If YOU as a killer are bad, THEN
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What do you mean?
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OP's point: the survivors i was against were bad, why didn't I win?
Well, maybe, just MAYBE, he's not as good as he thinks he is either
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Gideon is pretty unfair, Haddonfield is extremely unfair IF survivors know how to abuse it, but Lehry's is a pretty killer sided map dude.
Also you like Shelter woods but that map is MASSIVELY killer sided for the most part.
Maps can have a big affect on things sure, but yeah I don't think maps are your problem really.
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Maybe.
But it honestly could be what OP says
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I think Map RNG depends more on the Killer than the Survivors.
I feel a whole lot safer vs'ing a Huntress on Haddonfield than say a Hag, or Billy, who can traverse the map quickly. Even Trapper can do very well on Haddonfield if they setup properly. The possibility of a 3-gen there is pretty massive as well, because there are so many Survivors who have no clue how to not do every gen they see, and instead skip one so they don't screw themselves late game.
What Killer you are using heavily influences how you can play out a map, and if you're using the same strategies for every Killer you are going to fail heavily anytime the Survivors have a slight advantage. Sometimes the chase isn't the answer, but how your skills are stacking up against those you are playing against.
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This has been a thing forever. Its why you shouldnt take people serious who say “freddy takes no skilll”, “spirit takes no skill”. On some maps as survivor you can win just by holding W and dropping god pallets. If you’ve got sprint burst even better.
If the killer chases a survivor through Badham school for example that alone can be a game winning chase just by holding forward as survivor. Hold W through the school, drop a god pallet, hold W around, drop a god pallet if killer is too close, and use the fence window which easily gives you 2 x loop. I’ve never timed it but with a fresh spawn holding W there until the resources are gone is easily 3 gens worth and that’s for a single hit, you’ve still got another hit to go.
Worth bearing in mind that the designers reworked this map TWICE and this is the best they could come up with. I would bet your average DBD player could design a better map, i know thats a clichè that gets said a lot but in this case its true
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Yh i know. I never said i disagree with your point.
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Running a killer for a long time around a single L-wall, T-wall takes some skill. Predicting where a killer will go on a tile and juking them to lose them takes some knowledge. I think killers can appreciate that. The problem is, and this is an extreme example, but new meat plant is a good example where you just hold forwards and drop god pallets.
Meat plant, Badham, Lerys, Midwich they all seem to have varying shades of this.
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Yes, I know that's what people believe and that they blame stealth players for losing. Fact is, looping is not the only skillful thing you can do as a survivor, it's just the easiest to learn.
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Most of the scenarios you don't really have to tunnel someone out. I think that's too desperate and unfun for everyone. I think slugging is a better option, especially if you already have someone on hook. On the other hand, I also don't think the game is supposed to be a free 4k every game. So gen speed shouldn't be balanced in a way survivors will lose no matter what, considering most are not even really good at chases.
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^ This sums it pretty well. It's actually being extremely generous at that.
This is before taking into account all the chase extending exhaustion/second chance perks. The time to pick up, carry, and hook (which is 25% of a gen mind you every single time). Then there's travel time, where many maps can cost you half an entire gen just crossing the map.
Even assuming the killer makes zero mistakes the objective times are ridiculously stacked against them.
The survivors could literally be complete garbage, throw every pallet instantly, and still go down in sub 20 seconds, while actually winning the game because their team is efficient and know how to sit on a gen holding m1 without wasting time. This is winning based on not wasting time and holding m1, not making any skilled plays.
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Just wanted to say that every time the killer lands a hit, the survivor gets about a 15 second head start unless they somehow royally screw up moments later.
30 second chases are almost impossible against even vaguely competent survivors unless you're playing an insta-down killer
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On lerys I was playing billy. The survivors were super immersed, they had 3 yellow toolboxes, 2 prove thyself, and 3 spinechills. I would leave a gen then 30 seconds later a gen would pop. I can't spend 40 seconds looking for survivors on that map it's a nightmare
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Clearly you weren't dominating every chase if they had the time to do gens.
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Well there's not much else to get carried by. Maps are the only thing survivors really have going for them.
The biggest weapons survivors have against killers are map obstructions. Maps that have more of them help a lot.
Maps that don't have them? Holy mother. Lots of killers get carried by maps too, I mean I always get Spirit on Shelter Woods for some reason.
Map balance is a very real issue in DBD but it's also just part of the bigger problem that the game mechanics aren't exactly robust enough that survivors have any other tools at their disposal.
Now this is crazy talk. Just as how Freddy does take skill and Spirit does take skill, playing survivor also takes skill and you can't just press W to win unless the killer is an absolute potato.
Not really true. Stealthing is another strategy and is a lot harder to do than looping and requires a lot more skill. It's also not very effective because making mistakes while stealthing is severely punished, and it's just harder in general if the killer has good awareness.
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Guess you've never played against 4 survivors who are bad at chase but good on gens
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I have. I hooked the chased and then went and stopped the gens. You have to do both, my friend.
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Wouldn't be making this post if I wasn't doing both.
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Interesting. And, on these maps that are designed to make you lose, what's your win condition and how close do you get to it?
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I play for 12 hooks. Anything below 10 is a lose for me. In those matches I got 8 8 7 9 with only using pop as gen defense
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Survivors and killers get carried honestly.
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If the survivors are bad at chases, they should lose the match. It’s simple.
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I went against 4 urban evaders and 4 with spine chill on lery's yesterday. They burned the map too. It was a complete and utter nightmare because I couldn't find a single person.
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Which is 95% of survivors. Suck at chase only know how to hold m1 all game.
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I mean the only way to stay alive as a survivor is pallet looping. So if every map was a complete dead zone everything would be much easier for killer and survivors would be dropping like flies.
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Lery's feels like one big loop, similar to Hawkins.
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Lery's feels like one big loop, similar to Hawkins.
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If someone burns a lery offering I just close the game and get back on. That map is just stupid for some many reasons
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You just spam windows that's all it is.
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Yea I'm considering it for now on if people wanna play like that.
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I have encountered multiple tiles that literally have no vault-able windows, since the game decides which door is open and which window is closed. It can create some crazy good loops but it can also create the biggest dead zones.
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I don't know what you mean.
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I said stealth, you're describing a useless teammate so you could ask a loaded question.
Stealth is about doing all the things you need to do (working on gens, cleansing totems, opening gates, unhooking, healing, and so on) without being seen by the killer. You should try it some time. I wrote a guide on the subject that placed third in a contest, check it out.
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"Boring" is a matter of opinion. I find running in circles to be boring, you find stealth boring. We have different playstyles.
Spine Chill is very basic as far as stealth perks go. You know the killer is coming, so you slink away in the opposite direction. Simple and easy.
One of my stealth builds (I have a few) allows me to repair a gen as the killer is approaching and be far away by the time they're done checking the area.
Post edited by Orion on0
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