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A response to those against adding LGBTQIA+
Comments
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Right, because they're clearly the gospel of morality from their track record, yes?
I can't wait for a trans survivor to be brought into a game of murder, pain and suffering, some fine representation there.
How does, sexuality and gender fit in line with a game about murder and suffering?
Because I literally do not see how sexuality, which is often represented by love and positivity, can be FAIRLY represented in a game about literal misery on a silver platter.
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Right, because they're clearly the gospel of morality from their track record, yes?
Why are you bringing up morality? I'm just saying, it's their game, so it's up to them to decide whether something should be included or not. They have artistic freedom.
How does, sexuality and gender fit in line with a game about murder and suffering?
Sexuality has been a part of the slasher genre from its inception.
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Why have you never said anything against the heterosexual relationships featured in the lore then? Why the need to only exclude LGBT+, which is not even always only about sexuality. Being trans is about identity, it says nothing about the sexuality of the person if they are trans
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Because you basically implied they were morally correct in their decision when they JUST had a scandal over doing something that was immoral.
Sure, they can decide what they want to do, but at the end of the day, they need to consider the communities feelings and if only 10% of the player base actually cares for representation, then forcing it in is ridiculous.
Like seriously, who thinks whilst playing a game about murder and suffering, ''hey I need gay and trans representation''. Unless you're living in a specific part of the world, you can literally turn the TV on and see plenty of LGBTQ representation, why do you need it in a horror game?
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It’s not forced in. The devs want it. People want to force it out
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Because you basically implied they were morally correct in their decision when they JUST had a scandal over doing something that was immoral.
I didn't imply anything, that's something you imagined I had said. I said that it was up to them to decide whether something belonged in DbD or not, and they decided you were wrong. The closest to a moral argument I've made on the subject of representation was showing the double standard in saying that explicit mentions of heterosexuality in lore are OK, but explicit mentions of non-heterosexuality are not.
Sure, they can decide what they want to do, but at the end of the day, they need to consider the communities feelings and if only 10% of the player base actually cares for representation, then forcing it in is ridiculous.
Well, from the forums, it seems most people are for it. However, they have never taken polls before adding any other lore and I don't see why they should start now.
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Let me ask you this, how do you introduce representation that is purely positive in a game about pain and murder?
This isn't a love show, and if it was, I would be down for it, but adding sexuality to a game about perpetual suffering isn't the representation the LGBTQ+ community needs.
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Let me ask you something more basic: why is it OK to have heterosexual representation, but not non-heterosexual representation? Give me an argument for excluding the latter (which is forced exclusion), but keeping the former.
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Why do you all even care. This game is broken on all possible levels, and the biggest thread on this forum is about LGBT characters? Just why? I'm just so curious, why is that so important for you to have a trans survivor or killer in a game about murdering people?
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If it doesn't matter, then why do you care why people want it?
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Why are you always avoiding to answer that simple question?
include it just like heterosexual relationships in the lore. Nothing more nothing less. That’s what the devs want to do. No it has nothing to do with gameplay or theme. But does Legions intimacy fit? Does Kate being a country singer needed to be in the game?
also why would it need to be positive when it could just be neutral and in best case not stereotypical or discriminating.
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The thread is so big because people want it to be excluded. The question should go to them: why do they care so much?
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All I'm going to say as a somewhat final, because I can see this dragging on without any ending is, if you really need LGBTQ representation in this game, then you're either:
A) In a country where LGBTQ isn't accepted and I apologise for that.
B) In a country that has plenty of representation in casual media, etc, but you just want to force a gay character in every fabric of reality, even though that isn't realism.
C) You want to sexualise the characters for sex.
If I had to generalise the people asking for LGBTQ representation, I'd say ''C'' because there's countless comments about whether Dwight is a top or bottom, or whether David has a massive crotch, but there's none about actual meaningful love or positivity when it comes to sexuality or gender, which is the representation that is needed, but you can't get it in this game.
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Idk, I'm just curious. I really want to know why people need to be "represented" by something in-game. Why being gay and playing gay character is so important for you. As a straight white male I don't give ######### if I'm playing a black woman or asian trans dude.
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That's not an answer the question. Again, why is it OK to have heterosexual lore, but not non-heterosexual lore?
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Or maybe try to read the arguments in this thread instead of assuming
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Because people aren't happy until every corner of life has a token gay character in it.
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As a bi white male I don't care either, but some of my LGBT brothers, sisters, and others do. It doesn't harm anyone to have representation and benefits those who want it. Therefore, I support this.
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Who asked for a token gay character? Please, show me a single person who asked for that.
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There's actual meaningful representation and just ''throw it in to meet the criteria of diversity''
You all want the latter and will not admit it.
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If you assume we're all lying, then this conversation will go nowhere because you will not even consider what we're saying. If that's your starting assumption, that we're liars, then I wish you a nice day.
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Someone else brought up a good point in that how do we know nurse isn’t bisexual? I think everyone here is a bigot for assuming frank doesn’t identify as a woman and you are just foisting the identity of male on him.
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You just don’t want any LGBT inclusion because you can already fantasize about the mentioned heterosexual relationships in the game! Now i get why you are not answering it, gotcha! That is the only possible argument I can imagine why you are against inclusion, so it must be true!
see. Not so nice to get an obviously false assumption thrown at you.
(for the record, no I don’t think that is really the case)
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I think that the majority of the criticism about adding a non-heterosexual character isn't necessarily about a bunch of homophobes running around gay pride parades with bibles and crucifixes, but the issue of netflix-esque forced diversity, much like the titular "diversity hire." There is nuance to creating a non-heterosexual character, as if you make them too "normal" a character, people will feel as if the label of gay or lesbian was tacked on for good PR. On the other hand, if you assign them tropes that one would associate with LGBTQ etc. peoples, most of which are terrifically offensive or misrepresentative (effeminacy, butch lesbians, "yas queen,"), people will feel as if you're being homophobic. It's a catch-22.
Another stipulation of that postulate is that, despite all the fan fiction, most people wouldn't care about whose pants the new survivor wants to get into. Again, if you get a character that's pretty much just meg with blue hair, who happens to be lesbian, it feels forced and stilted. You get criticized for a diversity hire. If you go out of your way to make them "recognizably" LGBTQ, meaning their personality is based off of their sexuality, then you will get criticized for insinuating that LGBTQ peoples are somehow "different" than their straight counterparts.
So, from the perspective of BHVR, it doesn't make sense to add an LGTBQ character. Not because some old book from thousands of years ago says X, Y, and Z (where x is gay marriage bad, y is stone adulterers, and z is slavery is a-ok with the big man in the sky), but because of the societal implications of creating such a characters.
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No one ever stated that this is out of possibility. But why is it okay to explicitly never mention anything LGBT related but there are several heterosexual relationships mentioned which is completely fine by every one. Literally everyone. No one complained
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You literally didn’t read a word I said. You just assumed they are all heterosexual
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One of the reasons it matters so much to me is because of ######### I've been through. You admitted to being a straight white guy, so you don't know what it's like, but imagine having to tell the people around you that you're gay. You don't know if they'll accept you, you don't know if they won't. You don't know if you even want to tell them, because you're afraid of being thrown out of your own home and you have nowhere else to go. Imagine living with this burden every single day, constantly fighting a battle of "do I tell or do I pretend?". Imagine living every single day as a lie to appease people who you're pretty sure love you, but you're not 100% sure will.
Then the few people who you trust to come out to leak it, and it spreads around the school. You're bullied and harassed constantly- fag, freak, gay ######### being my personal 3 favourites. At home, your siblings have started making jokes about how every gay person is overly-sensitive and it'd be better if people were just straight. Being gay is unnatural, after all. It develops, the bullying and the "jokes" and your mental health plummets because you're not normal and honestly the world would be better off without people like you there.
And it almost worked.
That's why representation is important.
I can't speak for everyone, only myself, but had I been able to look towards media (because honestly I've been playing this game far longer than I should've lol) when growing up then I'd have been able to see, 'oh hey, people like you do exist and it's normal'. It would've stopped me attempting to take my own ######### life.
That's why it's important to have represenation. And whilst I don't think you'll be able to understand, you could at least try to empathise. It's not important to everyone, but for some people it is.
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No, Mooks said that heterosexual relationships were explicitely confirmed but not LGBTQ+ ones. The actual relationships the characters were in, not the characters themselves.
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You literally didn’t read what I have written.
being in a heterosexual relationship has nothing to do with being heterosexual.
please show me where I have assumed they were heterosexual.
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You all have zero reading comprehension. It’s simple, if gender is fluid, then you cannot assume their relationships are heterosexual in nature. That means YOU are saying character x identifies a certain way. It’s a pretty big leap to make
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Your second line actually helps my point. Thank you.
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You have zero reading comprehension.
we are actually saying if heterosexual relationships can be mentioned so should others. And yes we can assume their genders when the creators of the game have defined their genders. They are using pronomes and other words like ‚woman‘, ‚man‘ etc.
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I hope the next chapter has a LGBTQ+ character. I agree with the majority that it probably will have.
At the minute this is all only speculation so I hope people aren't getting too hyped over something that may not be happening yet.
Don't want people to potentially get disappointed like what happened with the 4th year anniversary chapter when people all had their own ideas about who the killer was definitely going to be.
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Also the creators have literally confirmed that every relationship mentioned is in fact straight.
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So now you can tell me what the pronouns I want to use mean?
See how ridiculous this gets?
plus, once again I have no proof that heterosexual relationships are mentioned. If you choose to read the lore that way, you do you.
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Again, the creators have literally confirmed it.
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The same creators who also said one current character is part of the gay community but won’t say who? Yeah, so I’ll keep my mind open to the character lore while you pigeon hole them.
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I don’t even know what that phrase is supposed to mean (pigeon hole)
but yeah kinda? The devs confirmed one char was created with being part of the LGBT+ community in mind (not necessarily gay). Which also confirms the others up to that point weren’t.
but good to know you are out of ‚arguments‘. Please next time think about it before you try to put words in others mouths.
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Lol you just admitted the devs already have a character whose gay in the lore, which one we don’t know. By definition this means that any of the relationships you point to as proof that heterosexual relationships are present might actually be not heterosexual. Then you say I am out of arguments. That is classic.
I’ll continue to not assume anything about the characters. You continue to assume they are straight. Seems like I’m actually the more inclusive thinker though IMO
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By definition this means that any of the relationships you point to as proof that heterosexual relationships are present might actually be not heterosexual
Not quite sure how this is the case?
We're talking about the relationships not the characters. There's been heterosexual relationships confirmed in the lore, not heterosexual characters.
Frank and Julie? He/Him x She/Her.
Nurse and her husband? She/Her x He/Him
Felix and his gf? He/Him x She/Her
David and his ex? He/Him x She/her.
And you accuse us of having poor reading comprehension? That is classic.
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Not to dismiss your experience, because that is NOT my intention but if you're turning to a small horror game for representation, then you're looking in the wrong area.
And it's not the representation you want. Many people are bullied, killed, physically beaten for who they are and people want LGBTQ characters in a game that is exactly that?
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Any media. Representation in any forms of media could've been the confirmation that I was normal. Like I said, was playing this game far too young.
They asked why people cared about representation. That's why I care about it.
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and what if I chose to believe frank is a ze/zem. Your argument falls apart then.
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The fact that the developers have confirmed Frank is a male who goes by He/Him in the lore of the Legion. Your argument falls apart with 3 Google searches.
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The devs said every mentioned relationship is indeed heterosexual. And there is a character that is LGBT+. And they have seen their mistake in mentioning heterosexual relationships while also stating they didn’t want to reveal any of the sexualities of their chars. They admitted they did mistakes there and they will not any longer exclude any sexuality in the lore.
so yes we KNOW every mentioned relationship is heterosexual. And we know there is at least one char LGBT+ (not necessarily gay). It may very well be a char said has had a heterosexual relationship confirmed. We don’t know said.
but what does that even have to do with this topic? Devs won’t explicitly exclude anything LGBT+ related, while they stated that they unintentionally did so in the past.
now use you reading comprehension please.
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No one here wants to restrict your head canons or anyone else’s.
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“so yes we KNOW every mentioned relationship is heterosexual. And we know there is at least one char LGBT+ (not necessarily gay). It may very well be a char said has had a heterosexual relationship confirmed. We don’t know said.”
You literally contradict yourself. And if no one is trying to restrict my head canon, why do you keep telling me the devs have defined them to only be one way
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So.. you want LGBTQ people to be put in a perpetual cycle of death, pain and suffering..?
Because that truly represents the LGBTQ+ individuals of the world, doesn't it? Being murderers or victims of murder.
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Damn you're really not getting this, are you?
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1) No, they didn't. Heterosexual relationships and heterosexual characters are different things, for the last time.
2) That's the entire point of a headcanon. It's not official canon. I hc' Claudette as ace, but that's not official canon. No matter what dbd says I'll still hc' her as ace, but it'd still be official canon otherwise if dbd states so.
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