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How would we feel if we got a new mechanic to prevent slugging?
To explain more on this, the mechanic would punish the killer if he leaves a survivor slugged for too long.
Just an example, the longer a survivor is either slugged or recovered for, the higher his chances of escaping from the hook by himself, or the longer he can struggle on the hook.
This, of course, wouldn't work with unbreakable for example since it boosts the recovery time so that's something that would have to be considered.
How broken or balanced would this be?
Comments
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Considering slugging is pretty much the only thing killers can do against a genrush squad because there literally isn't time for 12 hooks, I would say this would be incredibly broken.
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It would be completely impossible to win as killer outside of total potatoes for survivors. Sorry you might hate slugging and I can understand that, but it's the only thing to put pressure on survivors to get off gens.
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So, it would let Survivors crawl off into the horizon while the Killer tries to hunt down the person that was going to go for the flashlight save and punish the Killer for not wanting to get blinded?
Nah.
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Yeah maybe something like a perk that lets you get up on your own, or maybe a perk that lets you crawl and recover at the same time, or maybe a perk that lets you heal dying people faster
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Survivors already have perks to punish slugging.
Unbreakable, Soul Guard, Flip Flop (+ Power Struggle), Tenacity, WGLF.
You could even consider Desperate Measures too as slugged survivors also trigger the faster healing.
Slugging is necessary sometimes as killer so adding a mechanic to punish Killers who pick the best option makes no sense.
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This might sound too op but what if there was a perk that gave you the endurance status effect when you get picked up from the dying state, I hate it when I get up and get knocked down. Maybe as a bonus effect you can get up like Unbreakable but only when a Hex Totem is up or something.
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The devs have talked about how they have no intention to add more mechanics that allow killers to negate lost chases in a new way/way that bypasses killer effort because it utterly breaks the game. They said as much in streams about ideas to make hook camping worse (When... low key hook defense needs to be stronger... killers literally can't defend the hook right now which is why we are in such a slug/instadown meta, which the devs themselves note is what happens when survivors can rescue despite the killer camping).
So what do I think? I think it would break the game. The killer is intended to A: Be able to incapacitate players, and B: be able to prevent those players from resuming play at the cost of map pressure. Trying to deny those realities by saying 'its not fun to be on the hook' kinda misses that games aren't designed to avoid negative events at all costs. In fact, games that do this kinda suck. You NEED gamestates that are negative experiences you want to avoid for games to function, you just want to limit how common they are, how unfair they are, and how intensely negative they are.
Mid-short dureation player elimination, which is what getting camped/killed on hook is, or being slugged is, is actually a fairly minor consequence in a game: It gives you a chance to take a breath, to recollect, mentally cool down. They only become supremely irritating if your forced to do a meaningless interaction that forces you to be 'present' in the moment like... Oh I dunno... being forced to mash space to not die, or hold M1 to heal...
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Unbreakable
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Just use Unbreakable, like every other survivor.
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You're onto something.. we could call it Spirit Defense or something like that...
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Considering how difficult many of us are finding the Heroic Cause challenge to be because killers aren't slugging is telling me slugging is a non issue. Yeah, occasionally someone will will toxically slug or slug towards endgame for pressure and it does suck to be on the ground for a while but those games are few and far between.
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Ok let's punish killers for using a good strategy. While we're at it let's just make it so survivors can't work on another generator after fixing one for 100 seconds
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Punishing slugging would destroy the Twins. So no.
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Something that punishes killers for mega slugging, or allows a survivor to pick themself up after... I dunno, 2-3 minutes, that would be great. Few things are worse than a Nurse, Blight, Bubba, or Billy with IF going "should have split up more noob" like that's the beginning and end of the conversation.
Edit: also, I'm sorry that people aren't taking you, or this topic, very seriously. It's like people think bandaid perks are healthy, or winning by megaslug.
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Yea this is what I meant but didn't express it clearly apparently. My point was to prevent the killer from just slugging the entire team and hooking each one just once. And as for the perks that counter slugging, imo I don't think perks should be designed to counter some bad design, but that's a topic for another time.
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A) It's a good strategy to slug for a bit if, for example, a survivor with a flashlight hoping to get a save is nearby. This I do agree with. What I don't agree with is mega-slugging and instead just hooking them.
B) Are you complaining that gens are too slow to fix or something? That's just not true at all. Literally, hold M1 away from the killer and that's the only objective survivors really have. Keep in mind that the killer has to put pressure on 4 survivors constantly which if they're a SWF that knows what they're doing, the killer's chance of winning is so much unlikely.
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You have a point, but I don't think gen rushing is fair either but don't tell people I said this, or I might find 300 people with torches and spears outside my house.
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Okay I'm not entirely against the increased chances for hook escape when slugged as long as its not like you were seconds from death here's a guaranteed kobe. If it topped out at like 25% to throw out a number I'd be good with that. Makes sense. Also a blood point bonus for when you're on the ground as a sorry this happened to you wouldn't hurt either. Conversely killers could get more bloodpoints the faster they hook a survivor after downing them. Its not a perfect fix but this game should reward the behavior it wants to see used in gameplay.
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You want to be left to bleed out? ok.
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I'd rather something be done about camping and tunneling tbh.
Slugging is high risk high reward for killers and there's a lot of really good perks for dealing with slugging.
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What's wrong with slugging again?
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Bad idea in my opinion:
Slugging isn't necessarily a bad thing, and already has counters (unbreakable, wglf, flip flop, soul guard, just to name a few)
If there's an in-game mechanic that counters slugging, killers that rely on slug like oni will be severely weakened. On the other hand, when I get matched with a slugging nurse that uses third seal, knockout, deerstalker and nurse's calling in order to down everyone and let them bleed out, that shouldn't be an exploitable mechanic.
But since this is extremely rare, I'll stand by the killer-side statement that it shouldn't be a game mechanic
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When I have to slug, for instance when all the gens are done, I usually hook one survivor and wait until they get to the struggle phase and then hook others one by one. I remember the match when I hooked 3 survivors at once and the all kobe(ed) with no special perks, just a pure luck.
I usually don't have a chance to successfully slug at the endgame, but sometimes with Agitation, Mad Grit, SBTFL it works great
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Nerfing slugging (again) would only be an option if we were to nerf something on the survivor side as well to compensate and I sure as hell know you wouldn't want that so I'm just gonna say: Use Unbreakable. It's a meta perk with literally no skill requirement and robs a slugging killer with the press of a button. Doesn't that sound good enough for you?
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While we are at it I think we should punish killers for any actions that prevent survivors completing their objectives. Pesky killers grrrrr!
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Slugging happens because the killer legitimately can't defend the hook correctly. The devs talked about this in a old stream, but basically slugging becomes common when killers don't feel hooks are 'worth it.'
Already its... absurdly hard to defend hooks. I think the new animation system made punishing BTless rescues harder, for example. So most killers don't even bother hooking right now unless they have an absurd tempo advantage.
So what we... kinda need is for unhooks to get weaker? Maybe not camping stronger (though in endgame it definitely needs to be), but less of a tempo loss for a quick unhook on the killer. Like right now a HUGE problem with the game is that getting a down can be forced to be a 2 minute minimum time investment just by holding W, and that is enough time for 3 survivors to repair 5 gens, as depip squads prove. So anything that makes the tempo gain of removing a survivor from play even temporarily worse, and prevents the killer from using that survivor they captured as a resource, is bad for the game.
The hooked survivor is a resource for the killer. That is the intended function of the hook. But its not working right now because survivors successfully reframed the debate as 'it isn't fun to be hooked' as if games are about you never encountering a situation that is bad for you ever. It isn't fun to be caught in a beartrap or downed or any other number of things, but they are important to the game's various playstates that ARE fun. The hook being a localized, negative experience where a survivor is powerless and the killer can freely do whatever they want is negative to that survivor in that moment, but HOLISTICALLY it makes the game more fun.
Again, player elimination, 'being not allowed to play the game?' Game designers understand, at least in videogames that last around 15 minutes and not say... a 2 hour boardgame... is actually a relatively minor and acceptable penalty compared to some other negative gamestates. The biggest problem survivors have with the hook right now is having to mash space, otherwise the hook FAVORS survivors at interactions which is *actively ######### dumb.*
And I am not kidding that mashing space is a big problem. It is actively player hostile design that goes out of its way to amplify the negative feelings of losing by forcing you to participate in your loss actively through repetitive strain inducing motion that requires no skill or thought to distract you from the frustration you feel being stuck on the hook, leaving you alone with the negativity of the experience rather than giving you a mental break like most elimination/temporary out of play effects do to recompose and mentally 'cool off.' Like whoever insists that stays in the game needs a stern talking to because its... objectively an awful mechanic and a HUGE part of 'Hook angst.'
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sounds like an amazing idea to nerf the ######### out of Oni, Twins, Nurse...
-_-
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No I'm saying after gen is done, they can't work on another for 100 seconds to prevent gen rush.
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