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Toxic Surviors in a party together talking via third party and bullying killers.

CosmicKing_
CosmicKing_ Member Posts: 14
in General Discussions
So what I have been noticing recently alot when playing the killer is teams who have usually 3 or 4 surviors who are friends and are talking over a mic with a third party app. Because of this killers are suffering badly with getting bullied by these people, and they have an massive advantage over killers, the problem is talking over a mic with 2,3,4 people you can easily dominate the killer, communication gives you a huge advantage and I can notice the teams which do it,  everytime you down somebody, a survior is already there to blind you so you drop them, when you do finally pick a survior up 2 off the other players are body blocking you to the max so you can't physically move and you drop them, when you are chasing somebody you can easily talk to the person you're on mic with and say "do this certain generator" or if you are hooked " He's moved away to this area come get me". How is that any bit fair for the killer? And these surviors are so beyond toxic is truly ruins the game for killers, by an absolute landslide surviors are way more bullying and toxic then killers, and I've noticed this because I've played as both and seen it from both sides. My point is the devs should make it so Killers can see which surviors are together, then you can choose whether to leave the lobby so you don't get bullied, or stay and play a toxic team who wants to give you hell and not play the game correctly. I've had the worst type of teams you could think off and it's clear they are together, and too make sure I even went on they're profiles and looked at which communities they are in and 3 of the players were in the exact one, and they made my game an absolute nightmare with continuous body blocking non stop everytime I got somebody, flashing constantly with people blocking me, butt dancing everytime they did something annoying to keep making it worse for me, and even when they did every generator they stayed for 10 minutes butt dancing and bullying me, and I wanted to leave the match so long before but I didn't want to rage quit and lose points, anyways it's an issue which needs to be fixed or I feel like less people will want to be killers if they are getting bullied. Thank you for reading  (:
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Comments

  • DarkWo1f997
    DarkWo1f997 Member Posts: 1,532
    Good sir do I have a product for you! 

    When beint bullied, simply face camp and nod. You’re in control, not them. ;) 
  • CosmicKing_
    CosmicKing_ Member Posts: 14
    altruistic said:
    You think good players need voice coms? Lol. It’s never been a better time to play Killer.  
    Imo and my experience, teams with SWF are getting worse with how much they want to annoy you, there is a difference when they are wanting to purposely annoy you rather than just playing the game how you should, it just ruins it for killers, that's just because I've been getting it more frequently.
  • redsopine1
    redsopine1 Member Posts: 1,437
    Just say ######### it and basement patrol or patrol camp a easy to guard hook chase into the basement whack as there going down and down them forcing more to go down to save them swf teams just get torn apart by that as they are immature and cant take nit being saved
  • CosmicKing_
    CosmicKing_ Member Posts: 14
    Stevo said:
    Firstly: Paragraphs are a thing.

    Secondly, not everyone uses "Third Party Apps". Specifically Console Users - which judging by the tag you've put, you're a PS4 user. PS Party is a thing.

    Thirdly, "Show killers who is together and who isn't". That's a disaster waiting to happen if I've ever seen one. Good luck finding a lobby with friends. You can't just say "Oh yeah I've seen this particular thing occur to one side from both perspectives" and then proceed to not think of the repercussions for the side which the problem doesn't affect. That would be the devs shooting themselves in the foot at that stage.

    Fourthly, just because people do flashlight saves and bodyblocks doesn't mean they're automatically a SWF group. Don't get me wrong, in a decent amount of cases it is, but by no means always.

    Fifthly, Matchmaking is trash when it comes to SWF groups. There doesn't seem to be any set pattern as to what it pairs you with. I play with two friends usually, both in double digit ranks, while I happen to be rank 1. We've been paired with literally anything between ranks 11 and 2. That's an inconsistency in matchmaking more than anything.

    Sixthly, there's plenty of tools to help against this sort of thing. While forcing you to use certain perks as killer isn't really a valid point to make, if it's that specifically you have a problem with, consider gaining access to any combination of the following perks:
    - Agitation or Iron Grasp for reaching hooks
    - Franklin's Demise or Overwhelming Presence to generally stop usage of items
    - Lightborn specifically for stopping blinds from Flashlights
    - Save The Best For Last or Unrelenting to allow you to use your Melee attack quicker
    - Hex: No One Escapes Death to allow you to 1-hit down anyone once the last generator gets completed (provided a dull totem is still available). 

    I'm sure there's more than that which could benefit you, but this is at least something to help with your specific issue.

    TL;DR - Your argument about killers getting bullied is only partially valid (in my opinion at least), the repercussions that would have on the fanbase would be much more severe. Try using different killers or perk combos to prevent such things happening to the best of your ability.

    Thats my opinion on it - won't see any replies for a while, though I'll try to respond again if I find any time to do so tomorrow.
    I agree with the perks but they won't always work. Have you been a killer and been bullied by a SWF team? If you have you will know how bad it is. Communication puts you a mile ahead of the killer, anybody can see that, you could be rank 20 only had a few games online and if you are with a friends who are decently good at the game, and you are communicating in whatever way, you have a massive advantage.

    Im not saying every SWF team are bad by any means, but in my experience on PS4, majority of the SWF teams are out to annoy you in the worst way possible.

    The perk issue even with iron grasp on, if you are being blocked by 2 or 3 other players that still won't help you. Why should I have to remove a perk I really like for iron grasp because of professional body blockers ?

    Also about the communications thing, dead by daylight don't have in game communication do they? I wonder why? Maybe because with it you can talk around the killer so very easily.

    Another pattern I have found out from watching streamers of dead by daylight is when I'm watching a certain one which is usually SWF player, when they do a day where they play alone,  they generally did bad, that's from what I have seen anyways, because they can't play alone because they don't have somebody to talk with to back them up, that's why solo players will always be better than SWF players because once you're in a routine of speaking to you're friends to come get you, flash the killer, body block, and when you play alone and don't always get that, that's when you realise it'll be harder, I'm not saying that for everyone because I'm sure they are both good solo players and SWF players, this is just my experience from playing on PS4

    Also to address you're point, "it would be a disaster waiting to happen", it wouldn't be really would it? Making it so the killer has a choice to play with a SWF team who are potentially going to bully you and be toxic to you, atleast you'll have a choice then to leave or play against them. People who haven't had this done to them won't have a care in the world or won't understand until you play Killer and it happens to you then it's a whole different story. That's the truth.

    Why should killers have to put up with this toxicity done to them with body blocking,  flash lightning everytime somebody is down, and butt dancing everytime they do something remotely toxic, but then soon as the killer does something bad back e.g face camping, then it's the end of the world the surviors will hate you forever and you're the bad one, you give, then expect to take it back. That's all I'm saying.

    Thank you for the reply also (:
  • CosmicKing_
    CosmicKing_ Member Posts: 14
    DarkWo1f997 said:
    Good sir do I have a product for you! 

    When beint bullied, simply face camp and nod. You’re in control, not them. ;) 
    Thank you! I do that when it has to come to that, but then they will think it's so unfair against them that you're doing something remotely annoying and end up messaging you so much bad stuff even though they have bullied you to the extreme? I don't get them. But then again I had a time where I done that but there was 3 people around the hook, ended up getting the person off the hook because I hit somebody around, then I got them down, soon as I moved abit after picking them up I got body blocked by one player and then flashed by the other and the survior escaped, and this happened the majority of the game, until I couldn't be bothered anymore and let them win, but you can't just quit because you'll be a "rage quitter" and you'll get you're rank down, so unfair man.
  • CosmicKing_
    CosmicKing_ Member Posts: 14
    redsopine1 said:
    Just say [BAD WORD] it and basement patrol or patrol camp a easy to guard hook chase into the basement whack as there going down and down them forcing more to go down to save them swf teams just get torn apart by that as they are immature and cant take nit being saved
    I totally agree with you, I've had times where I've been survior and tried to get somebody hooked but i ended up getting persued and It was out of my control because I didn't want to get down myself and I didn't want to just get the survivor of the hook then they get downed straight away or tunneled because they have been hooked, so I've had no option but to get away, then this person messaged me having a go because I didn't save them? Like what do you want me to physically do, you can't win either way.

    That method does work what you said though because I've done it before where I had somebody picked up and I was taking them to the basement and then a survivor destroyed one of my totems which gets them an exposed effect on ( I was the spirit) and a survivor was already convientally blocking a door way to the basement unaware that they had exposed on so I 1 hit them took the person I was carrying to the basement hooked them then went back up and hooked the person trying to block me, I ended up killing all surviors and they had 0 generators done, and I could tell it was a SWF team.
  • redsopine1
    redsopine1 Member Posts: 1,437
    CosmicKing_ said:
    redsopine1 said:
    Just say [BAD WORD] it and basement patrol or patrol camp a easy to guard hook chase into the basement whack as there going down and down them forcing more to go down to save them swf teams just get torn apart by that as they are immature and cant take nit being saved
    I totally agree with you, I've had times where I've been survior and tried to get somebody hooked but i ended up getting persued and It was out of my control because I didn't want to get down myself and I didn't want to just get the survivor of the hook then they get downed straight away or tunneled because they have been hooked, so I've had no option but to get away, then this person messaged me having a go because I didn't save them? Like what do you want me to physically do, you can't win either way.

    That method does work what you said though because I've done it before where I had somebody picked up and I was taking them to the basement and then a survivor destroyed one of my totems which gets them an exposed effect on ( I was the spirit) and a survivor was already convientally blocking a door way to the basement unaware that they had exposed on so I 1 hit them took the person I was carrying to the basement hooked them then went back up and hooked the person trying to block me, I ended up killing all surviors and they had 0 generators done, and I could tell it was a SWF team.
    Exactly as soon as they act like a SWF team go from nice game to your bot going anywere though if theres flashlights kill the ones with them tunnel camp them and remove somone with it and there friend trying the same thing
  • Well_Placed_HexTotem
    Well_Placed_HexTotem Member Posts: 824
    SWF does break the game at high level play but the player base would be nothing without it. 
  • apropos
    apropos Member Posts: 245

    I play on PS4 and sometimes when I'm playing as a survivor I will get a party invite from someone who is in the lobby with me. I imagine if I had the PS app on my phone I could easily join an SWF party with a bluetooth headset. It sucks, but the devs can't control what people do outside of the game.

    The best way that I have found to counter it is to be equally obnoxious. Consider that they're highly organized (some are anyways), each person will have a role to fill. Choose the role which you think is most integral to them achieving their objectives and tunnel the fck out of them. I always go after the person with the tool box, and I always avoid chasing the people with flashlights.

  • Stevo
    Stevo Member Posts: 121

    @CosmicKing_ said:
    Stevo said:

    Firstly: Paragraphs are a thing.

    Secondly, not everyone uses "Third Party Apps". Specifically Console Users - which judging by the tag you've put, you're a PS4 user. PS Party is a thing.

    Thirdly, "Show killers who is together and who isn't". That's a disaster waiting to happen if I've ever seen one. Good luck finding a lobby with friends. You can't just say "Oh yeah I've seen this particular thing occur to one side from both perspectives" and then proceed to not think of the repercussions for the side which the problem doesn't affect. That would be the devs shooting themselves in the foot at that stage.

    Fourthly, just because people do flashlight saves and bodyblocks doesn't mean they're automatically a SWF group. Don't get me wrong, in a decent amount of cases it is, but by no means always.

    Fifthly, Matchmaking is trash when it comes to SWF groups. There doesn't seem to be any set pattern as to what it pairs you with. I play with two friends usually, both in double digit ranks, while I happen to be rank 1. We've been paired with literally anything between ranks 11 and 2. That's an inconsistency in matchmaking more than anything.

    Sixthly, there's plenty of tools to help against this sort of thing. While forcing you to use certain perks as killer isn't really a valid point to make, if it's that specifically you have a problem with, consider gaining access to any combination of the following perks:

    • Agitation or Iron Grasp for reaching hooks
    • Franklin's Demise or Overwhelming Presence to generally stop usage of items
    • Lightborn specifically for stopping blinds from Flashlights
    • Save The Best For Last or Unrelenting to allow you to use your Melee attack quicker
    • Hex: No One Escapes Death to allow you to 1-hit down anyone once the last generator gets completed (provided a dull totem is still available). 

    I'm sure there's more than that which could benefit you, but this is at least something to help with your specific issue.

    TL;DR - Your argument about killers getting bullied is only partially valid (in my opinion at least), the repercussions that would have on the fanbase would be much more severe. Try using different killers or perk combos to prevent such things happening to the best of your ability.

    Thats my opinion on it - won't see any replies for a while, though I'll try to respond again if I find any time to do so tomorrow.

    I agree with the perks but they won't always work. Have you been a killer and been bullied by a SWF team? If you have you will know how bad it is. Communication puts you a mile ahead of the killer, anybody can see that, you could be rank 20 only had a few games online and if you are with a friends who are decently good at the game, and you are communicating in whatever way, you have a massive advantage.

    Im not saying every SWF team are bad by any means, but in my experience on PS4, majority of the SWF teams are out to annoy you in the worst way possible.

    The perk issue even with iron grasp on, if you are being blocked by 2 or 3 other players that still won't help you. Why should I have to remove a perk I really like for iron grasp because of professional body blockers ?

    Also about the communications thing, dead by daylight don't have in game communication do they? I wonder why? Maybe because with it you can talk around the killer so very easily.

    Another pattern I have found out from watching streamers of dead by daylight is when I'm watching a certain one which is usually SWF player, when they do a day where they play alone,  they generally did bad, that's from what I have seen anyways, because they can't play alone because they don't have somebody to talk with to back them up, that's why solo players will always be better than SWF players because once you're in a routine of speaking to you're friends to come get you, flash the killer, body block, and when you play alone and don't always get that, that's when you realise it'll be harder, I'm not saying that for everyone because I'm sure they are both good solo players and SWF players, this is just my experience from playing on PS4

    Also to address you're point, "it would be a disaster waiting to happen", it wouldn't be really would it? Making it so the killer has a choice to play with a SWF team who are potentially going to bully you and be toxic to you, atleast you'll have a choice then to leave or play against them. People who haven't had this done to them won't have a care in the world or won't understand until you play Killer and it happens to you then it's a whole different story. That's the truth.

    Why should killers have to put up with this toxicity done to them with body blocking,  flash lightning everytime somebody is down, and butt dancing everytime they do something remotely toxic, but then soon as the killer does something bad back e.g face camping, then it's the end of the world the surviors will hate you forever and you're the bad one, you give, then expect to take it back. That's all I'm saying.

    Thank you for the reply also (:

    I have indeed been bullied as a killer, as recently as a week ago in fact at rank 6. I don't know, it might just be your bad luck or something but it's very rare I come across survivors who are specifically out to annoy you. Prior to the incident I listed, last time I've been bullied like that was when the Clown came out. Comms do have an effect on a lot of killers, sure, but that doesn't quite justify allowing killers to make queue times even more obscene than they already are in some cases - especially for 3-man SWFs, just because they can immediately assume "Toxic SWF lolnope". Again, like you said, not all killers are like that, plus some killers haven't been bullied hard yet, but I mean given that rank reset, deranking and playing with friends are all things to consider, I'd say that there's a pretty big population of killers who can say they have been bullied.

    Perks. I said in my post that it's not a fully valid solution - but if you're having that much of a problem with it, substitute something in for a couple of games and see if a difference can be made. Yes, you may want to use perks you like, but you equally are choosing to not acknowledge that this sort of stuff could happen by doing so. I'm not trying to put you down for your decisions, I'm just trying to offer suggestions to help find a better solution to your specific problem than making queue times longer for those who have done nothing wrong (as in, aren't out to bully you).

    In-Game Comms aren't in DBD because they probably wouldn't be used. Let's face it. Any group that you refer to as bullies, will still do their own thing. It wouldn't change anything aside from giving solo players a different way to communicate. Groups who have used other things to communicate will likely continue using it, unless they want to meme around or something. It would be a waste of time on the developers' part.

    I completely agree with you on the streamers part. Some of them look like absolute idiots playing the game on their own. That's on the streamer though. If they want to go up ranks with friends, it's on them to be able to adapt to life at their new rank. I myself happen to stream this game on PS4. I did get to rank one for the first time while playing with friends, but I can play at rank 1 mostly fine. Yeah, I have bad games, but so does everyone else.

    My point about the disaster waiting to happen I think I've already covered slightly elsewhere. It'll lead to longer queue times, hence players not playing the game for extended periods of time effectively making it a relentless game of chance as to whether you actually get to play the game or not. I recall a stream in particular in the past where I got 4 games in 3 hours not long before this event came out. A game usually take between 10 and 15 minutes. Take about 15-30 minutes for spending bloodpoints, getting lobbies set up, short breaks, viewing the endgame screen and other various reason for not searching for a game, that's still half the stream that was spent searching for a game. The first two games, alarmingly, occurred in the first hour, since I was only with one other person. A third person joined in and lobbies took forever to get into. This isn't even with dodges. Imagine something similar, but with dodges because of an assumption? This is why I'd be leaning towards the against side on your idea.

    One thing to note is that obviously some killers already dodge for silly reasons. Prestige Clothing, 4 Claudettes (or any character for that matter, though it happens most with Claudette), Any items whatsoever (not including flashlights, that one I understand), just to name a few. It doesn't happen often at red ranks, but it happens a lot in the green and purple ranks, for some reason. If I were to play SWF with any of my buddies, I'd be subjected to that, simply because I want to play with friends and I happen to be a considerably higher rank than them. Deranking is a thing, but I'd actually be worse off for it, because I'd then fit the noobstomper label.

    Why should killers have to put up with so much toxicity? Well, I mean, if someone is being toxic towards you, do it right back. They have no right to complain, and if they do, that's not your problem. You were just giving a taste of their own medicine. Just ignore them and move along. Another thing - personally I don't think Flashlight Saves or Bodyblocking are that toxic. It's just a survivor trying to help another survivor after all. Yeah, there's people who are out to annoy you, but some people seem to forget that it's sometimes just friends trying to help one another. Not be "Toxic" and frustrate the killer intentionally. Same goes with camping. If you know people are around, why should you leave the hook? You're being given a reason to not leave, so why would you? Tunnelling, in my opinion is just being a lazy but effective killer. It's not fun for survivors, but it's just as valid as the flashlights and bodyblocks are, so I mean work away honestly. "Butt Dancing" I can only assume is Teabagging. There's not really much I can say on this topic. Usually it's a sign of the survivor being cocky. If you catch them, make them watch you pitch a tent I suppose if it makes you feel any better? Whatever suits you I guess.

    TL;DR - You've slightly misunderstood me on the disaster part - Queue times for SWF would be even longer than they already are outside of event times. Try changing your attitude or playstyle towards certain things, I'm not trying to sound like an ass, but the only way of fixing the issue is trying different things. If someone is toxic against you, why should you care if they complain about you being toxic also? You just played the game indifferently to how they did, what's so special about killer toxicity that survivors can complain about it? You're a killer, you're not supposed to care about the survivors, you're supposed to murder them.

    Honestly I just spent like 45 minutes typing this and I don't think I could be bothered with a third essay. There's probably some fallacy in my logic that I haven't noticed but I've tried my best to show why your idea isn't exactly the best way to go about this. I'll try to respond to any small questions or points you may have, but don't expect full blown answers. Can't be bothered as I say. Probably won't be on the forums until way later if not tomorrow anyway. Time for my daily dose of DBD.

  • Just_Meh
    Just_Meh Member Posts: 96
    DarkWo1f997 said:
    Good sir do I have a product for you! 

    When beint bullied, simply face camp and nod. You’re in control, not them. ;) 
    Couple of whacks on the behind too. 
  • KingB
    KingB Member Posts: 747
    If you suspect swf just play leatherface. Use Franklin's demise and insidious if you have it. Then camp if they are toxic and don't worry about losing. It's just one game :)
  • BigBubs
    BigBubs Member Posts: 1,131

    OP never watched any streams of the devs or Q&A videos.
    He doesn't get that it's ok with the devs.

  • HellDescent
    HellDescent Member Posts: 4,883

    Toxic swf will screw themselves over most of the time. All you need to do is slug 1 survivor and they will be circling their teammate like moths around the flame..

  • Justme
    Justme Member Posts: 1

    In my opinion this person correct in every matter survivors in a party and with voice chat can leave the killer at a disadvantaged and with the system of seeing survivors in a group on the lobby screen would work and if you say ''oh i want to play with a freind but they will see us as a group and quit'' well tye devs have stated that the game is ment to set you up with random people and to know how altruistic they will be but playing in a group will destroy the devs thought of that. But to help with the survivors with this issue it could show if they are in a xbox party but not show if their in a survive with friends group. But if the devs are seeing this plz fix hit boxes because so many survivors keep spinning around me as a killer so if wou could make survivor hit boxes kinda wider when running it would fix a HUGE problem because in console its impossible to hit survivors when spinning around me as a kiler. And please just make it so if a survivor sprint vaults a pallet 3 times it breaks to end pallet looping thank you!

  • apropos
    apropos Member Posts: 245
    edited November 2018

    @PinkEricka said:
    I’ve only read portions of your paragraphs, no offense, I just don’t feel like reading right now, but what I am gathering from all this, you’re saying voice comms are unfair, correct?

    I’m gonna start by saying to get used to it, because third party softwares aren’t going anywhere. Yes, it’s unfair but if you’re really adept at killer, you can still destroy a team of SWF.

    People exaggerate about SWF all the time, 90% of the time, all we SWF players do is talk about we had for dinner last night, we don’t sit up talking like an organized swat group saying what try hard perks we’re gonna run to try and dominate the killer...

    @HellDescent said:
    Toxic swf will screw themselves over most of the time. All you need to do is slug 1 survivor and they will be circling their teammate like moths around the flame..

    These two comments illustrate to me why these groups become toxic. People get all personal, talkin about real life before the match starts and then they're all like "NOOOO don't hit cassandra! she had a hard day today! she spilt coffee on her new blouse!!"

  • Giche
    Giche Member Posts: 753

    @PinkEricka said:
    I’ve only read portions of your paragraphs, no offense, I just don’t feel like reading right now, but what I am gathering from all this, you’re saying voice comms are unfair, correct?

    I’m gonna start by saying to get used to it, because third party softwares aren’t going anywhere. Yes, it’s unfair but if you’re really adept at killer, you can still destroy a team of SWF.

    Better work on a killer AI at this point, instead of saying to paying customers : "Suck it up, this game is about US >:) "

    People exaggerate about SWF all the time, 90% of the time, all we SWF players do is talk about we had for dinner last night, we don’t sit up talking like an organized swat group saying what try hard perks we’re gonna run to try and dominate the killer...

    You don't even need to act like a death squad to gain a huge advantage with voicecom.

    "Do you see him ? Yes/No ? Let's work on this "

    You'll not admit it tho.

    Probably gonna be denied or looked down, but readers can make their opinions.

  • Master
    Master Member Posts: 10,200

    @DarkWo1f997 said:
    Good sir do I have a product for you! 

    When beint bullied, simply face camp and nod. You’re in control, not them. ;) 

    Even if you put your face into their body, survivors can still unhook :wink:

  • Carpemortum
    Carpemortum Member Posts: 4,506
    edited November 2018
    CosmicKing_ said: 
    "The perk issue even with iron grasp on, if you are being blocked by 2 or 3 other players that still won't help you. Why should I have to remove a perk I really like for iron grasp because of professional body blockers ?"

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Just gonna leave this here....Iron grasp vs an assumed swf body block squad: https://youtu.be/Ea7eJmMxpv4



    But yes, having to take a whole perk slot just to deal with this sucks, but man walking around the map with a survivor sure is fun.





  • Carpemortum
    Carpemortum Member Posts: 4,506
    edited November 2018
    Rebel_Raven said:

     DBD was, and is not balanced with coordinated teams in mind.

    Not true, in a recent q and a they debunked the myth of SWF being an afterthought. They just didnt have time to flesh out that AND kill your friends at release. Theyve always had teamplay in mind.
  • Okapi
    Okapi Member Posts: 839
    edited November 2018

    I'd be fine with SWF as a killer main if they made it so matchmaking used an average rank of all members in the SWF squad and not just the survivor who is the host.

    For instance if a 4 person group made up of a rank 2, rank 4, rank 5, and rank 16 played together and the rank 16 player was the one who invited the others into their game as of now they would be matched with a rank 14-18 killer. It's unfair and not fun for the killer.

  • Ashcchi
    Ashcchi Member Posts: 16

    You can also run the perk lightborn.. To ya know.. Make flashlights less effective

  • CosmicKing_
    CosmicKing_ Member Posts: 14
    Justme said:

    In my opinion this person correct in every matter survivors in a party and with voice chat can leave the killer at a disadvantaged and with the system of seeing survivors in a group on the lobby screen would work and if you say ''oh i want to play with a freind but they will see us as a group and quit'' well tye devs have stated that the game is ment to set you up with random people and to know how altruistic they will be but playing in a group will destroy the devs thought of that. But to help with the survivors with this issue it could show if they are in a xbox party but not show if their in a survive with friends group. But if the devs are seeing this plz fix hit boxes because so many survivors keep spinning around me as a killer so if wou could make survivor hit boxes kinda wider when running it would fix a HUGE problem because in console its impossible to hit survivors when spinning around me as a kiler. And please just make it so if a survivor sprint vaults a pallet 3 times it breaks to end pallet looping thank you!

    Thank you so much somebody that gets it! SWF teams are never going to understand it unless its happened to them as the killer, now you see with that is when it does finally happen to these SWF players when they eventually play as killer, they will absolutely hate it and maybe finally understand but I doubt that because they'll be ignorant. I also hope they sort the pallet looping out it should be destroyed after a few times of looping continously.
  • CosmicKing_
    CosmicKing_ Member Posts: 14
    Rebel_Raven said:

    Lets put it this way.

    If it was common some random survivor in your team started working with the killer using voice comms to tell the killer where you, and your buddies are, I think you'd be lying if you said you wouldn't be mad.

    It's no different when you use voice comms vs the killer to prevent them from being able to do anything. DBD was, and is not balanced with coordinated teams in mind.

    Honestly you are so true! If it was the other way round they would be so mad! And it isn't balanced when it comes to SWF teams and if SWF players think it's completly fair and balanced, well they are ignorant.
  • CosmicKing_
    CosmicKing_ Member Posts: 14
    Carpemortum said:
    CosmicKing_ said: 
    "The perk issue even with iron grasp on, if you are being blocked by 2 or 3 other players that still won't help you. Why should I have to remove a perk I really like for iron grasp because of professional body blockers ?"

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Just gonna leave this here....Iron grasp vs an assumed swf body block squad: https://youtu.be/Ea7eJmMxpv4



    But yes, having to take a whole perk slot just to deal with this sucks, but man walking around the map with a survivor sure is fun.





    Ahh sometimes you can get away with it and do something like that but that's not always the case! Some SWF teams won't always go straight for the heal when their friend is down they will wait until you hook somebody then the other 3 will hover around you and mess with you, running around you until you hit somebody, then while you are waiting for you're second hit the person is unhooked and then the cycle continues.

    Some SWF teams you can diminish easy like you did on that video when they are just standing still healing somebody in front of you but not all will just stay there and try heal their friend in a spot, they will run erands around you or sometimes you'll pick 1 to hit then they will run away to try make you chase them so he can tell his other buddies on communication that the killer is busy and can unhook the person off! Even if you face camp with the other 3 around you, they'll mess with you until they get the person of the hook because they can still unhook with you standing right in front of them.
  • CosmicKing_
    CosmicKing_ Member Posts: 14
    PinkEricka said:
    <font color=plum> I’ve only read portions of your paragraphs, no offense, I just don’t feel like reading right now, but what I am gathering from all this, you’re saying voice comms are unfair, correct?

    I’m gonna start by saying to get used to it, because third party softwares aren’t going anywhere. Yes, it’s unfair but if you’re really adept at killer, you can still destroy a team of SWF.

    People exaggerate about SWF all the time, 90% of the time, all we SWF players do is talk about we had for dinner last night, we don’t sit up talking like an organized swat group saying what try hard perks we’re gonna run to try and dominate the killer...
    Haha this is funny sorry but people don't exaggerate about it, when it's becoming a problem people will speak up about it of course, and honestly I doubt the whole game you're going to be talking about what we had for dinner last night, are you for real? Also you don't need to be organised like a swat group that's just dumb to say and you're obviously so for SWF teams, it's not exactly hard to speak around the killer which I gaurentee every SWF teams will do almost. Again they won't know what it's like until it's happened to them then they're opinions will change.
  • CosmicKing_
    CosmicKing_ Member Posts: 14
    Master said:

    @DarkWo1f997 said:
    Good sir do I have a product for you! 

    When beint bullied, simply face camp and nod. You’re in control, not them. ;) 

    Even if you put your face into their body, survivors can still unhook :wink:

    Yes they can because they'll force you to hit them one way or the other then that's when the unhook will happen, because you can stand there camping still but when there is 3 other players around you attempting to unhook and stuff like that, you'll be forced to engage so either way they will get off, unless the SWF team is absolutely abysmal and you manage to down everybody around the hooked survior.
  • Avariku
    Avariku Member Posts: 608
    gotta love the blatantly biased views on here. 

    just like killers...  "CaMpEiNg Is A lEgIt StRaTeGy"

    yea, and being bullied into submission by 4 survivors on comms is just a strategy too. 

    both "strategies" are trash and take any semblance if fun out of the game. 

    and before you start, I don't mean "comms are unfair" period... I just don't like the way they are currently in use. 

    I think it should be open comms heard over a certain distance... I think that would solve a lot of the issues, toxicity be damned.
  • CosmicKing_
    CosmicKing_ Member Posts: 14
    Giche said:

    @PinkEricka said:
    I’ve only read portions of your paragraphs, no offense, I just don’t feel like reading right now, but what I am gathering from all this, you’re saying voice comms are unfair, correct?

    I’m gonna start by saying to get used to it, because third party softwares aren’t going anywhere. Yes, it’s unfair but if you’re really adept at killer, you can still destroy a team of SWF.

    Better work on a killer AI at this point, instead of saying to paying customers : "Suck it up, this game is about US >:) "

    People exaggerate about SWF all the time, 90% of the time, all we SWF players do is talk about we had for dinner last night, we don’t sit up talking like an organized swat group saying what try hard perks we’re gonna run to try and dominate the killer...

    You don't even need to act like a death squad to gain a huge advantage with voicecom.

    "Do you see him ? Yes/No ? Let's work on this "

    You'll not admit it tho.

    Probably gonna be denied or looked down, but readers can make their opinions.

    You're honestly right, and don't worry about voicing you're opinion because this is a valid problem! And they won't admit it because they're too ignorant. It's easy to gain advantage with voicecom.

  • Rebel_Raven
    Rebel_Raven Member Posts: 1,775

    @Avariku said:
    gotta love the blatantly biased views on here. 

    just like killers...  "CaMpEiNg Is A lEgIt StRaTeGy"

    yea, and being bullied into submission by 4 survivors on comms is just a strategy too. 

    both "strategies" are trash and take any semblance if fun out of the game. 

    and before you start, I don't mean "comms are unfair" period... I just don't like the way they are currently in use. 

    I think it should be open comms heard over a certain distance... I think that would solve a lot of the issues, toxicity be damned.

    I don't agree that open comms will fix things. They can just work around it and use the same comms they do now.

    Only thing that might change is randos being able to communicate. That might break the game worse, and killers will quit entirely. I know I'd retire as killer if I had to up my game to MLG as killer while survivors go far into easy mode.
    As it is comms are absurdly broken, but limited, mostly, to SWFs and console party invites.

  • Avariku
    Avariku Member Posts: 608
    Other comms need to be limited somehow... this game is not really made for parties to play together with no consequences. (hence it ends up making the game entirely one-sided and not in the way it should be)
  • Rebel_Raven
    Rebel_Raven Member Posts: 1,775

    @Avariku said:
    Other comms need to be limited somehow... this game is not really made for parties to play together with no consequences. (hence it ends up making the game entirely one-sided and not in the way it should be)

    If you can think of a way to actually do it, I'm all ears.

    Push comes to shove they will probably use their cell phones to connect to discord bypassing any monitoring of the game.

    Other than that, I agree with you. SWF is game breaking.

  • CosmicKing_
    CosmicKing_ Member Posts: 14
    Avariku said:
    gotta love the blatantly biased views on here. 

    just like killers...  "CaMpEiNg Is A lEgIt StRaTeGy"

    yea, and being bullied into submission by 4 survivors on comms is just a strategy too. 

    both "strategies" are trash and take any semblance if fun out of the game. 

    and before you start, I don't mean "comms are unfair" period... I just don't like the way they are currently in use. 

    I think it should be open comms heard over a certain distance... I think that would solve a lot of the issues, toxicity be damned.
    I haven't seen any killers say that but some killers are forced into that position if people are hovering around you. What is you're logic.. stay there because people are hovering around and that's who I have to target or aimlessly go in the opposite direction even though I know surviors are around the hook, you know what I'll do the ######### option to please these surviors! I mean come on, but I mean when it's killers who are doing it when they know there are no surviors around them and they are just face camping then that's when it's toxic because the survior will die first hook and it's out of there hand unless they're with a SWF team then they will be able to get of regardless pretty easy.

    Yes communication on voicecom is a strategy that is obvious it is just very unfair! SWF should just have the complete private lobby with a killer they know then it's fine they can do what they like because the killer knows what they are getting into. It's these SWF teams tormenting these random killers who want to play the game and do the ACTUAL objective. 

    That would also be a good idea but that'd have to be in game voice com just because they are talking over 3rd party apps like playstation parry or Skype,  whatever,  if it was in game comms then they could do that, also I wonder why they don't have in game comms? Surely if they were all for SWF teams they would make it easy and put in game coms right? Well it's not added in game for a reason, unfortunately they can't control anything outside the game.
  • CosmicKing_
    CosmicKing_ Member Posts: 14
    Rebel_Raven said:

    @Avariku said:
    Other comms need to be limited somehow... this game is not really made for parties to play together with no consequences. (hence it ends up making the game entirely one-sided and not in the way it should be)

    If you can think of a way to actually do it, I'm all ears.

    Push comes to shove they will probably use their cell phones to connect to discord bypassing any monitoring of the game.

    Other than that, I agree with you. SWF is game breaking.

    It is game breaking but really the only way I can think is to notify the killers that these people are together in a SWF party, like maybe have their names displayed in a different colour so you can see who is together or who isn't or if you're just in a lobby with complete random players who don't know each other. Or maybe have a crown or something above the name of the host of the SWF team and numbers on the playes who are with them to see if there are 2,3,4 in the SWF team, then atleast you'll know weather to proceed or not, other than that, all I can think is remove SWF completly so they can't join games with random killers, but keep the aspect of them having a private lobby with a killer they know, but not joining random lobbies where sometimes 1 survior is left in the lobby with the 3 SWF team who won't care about them at all because I've also been a survivor paired with a 3 man SWF team and it sucks because they will only care about the party they are with not the 1 solo survivor with them. It's unfortunate but true.  
  • Rebel_Raven
    Rebel_Raven Member Posts: 1,775
    edited November 2018

    @CosmicKing_ said:
    Rebel_Raven said:

    @Avariku said:

    Other comms need to be limited somehow... this game is not really made for parties to play together with no consequences. (hence it ends up making the game entirely one-sided and not in the way it should be)

    If you can think of a way to actually do it, I'm all ears.

    Push comes to shove they will probably use their cell phones to connect to discord bypassing any monitoring of the game.

    Other than that, I agree with you. SWF is game breaking.

    It is game breaking but really the only way I can think is to notify the killers that these people are together in a SWF party, like maybe have their names displayed in a different colour so you can see who is together or who isn't or if you're just in a lobby with complete random players who don't know each other. Or maybe have a crown or something above the name of the host of the SWF team and numbers on the playes who are with them to see if there are 2,3,4 in the SWF team, then atleast you'll know weather to proceed or not, other than that, all I can think is remove SWF completly so they can't join games with random killers, but keep the aspect of them having a private lobby with a killer they know, but not joining random lobbies where sometimes 1 survior is left in the lobby with the 3 SWF team who won't care about them at all because I've also been a survivor paired with a 3 man SWF team and it sucks because they will only care about the party they are with not the 1 solo survivor with them. It's unfortunate but true.  

    Problem is convincing the extreme SWF defenders.
    They will accuse you of wanting easy games by dodging them, but conveniently forget that SWF is pretty easy mode.
    It sounds like they know SWF is broken. If someone knows how to dodge them, they will enough to basically remove SWF from the game. They have to hope the killer doesn't know they're SWF to get games. Even if it means abusing the matchmaking system to go after killers way below their ranks, or depipping.

    Being the 4th in an "Ed, Edd, and Eddy" (what some call a 3 man swf) is pretty hit or miss with me (not that I know for sure most of the time if I am), but anyone paying attention now will know who the 4th is.
    SWFs are already sort of marked as they appear in the lobby at the same time. Seeing 2, or 3 people pop in at the same time shows they're the SWF, then anyone who doesn't enter at the same time isn't an SWF. Unless it's 2 pairs.

    I've put forward the idea of marking SWFs, and/or the idea of filters on SWFs for killers and survivors, and been pretty heavily opposed.

    Personally, though, as much as I loathe the negative impact SWF has made, I don't want it gone from the game. Just more efficient dodging. Or more incentive to put up with them.

  • HuN7r3sS
    HuN7r3sS Member Posts: 211
    I think randoms and SWF's are all the same, if you play clever and predict/bait etc you should be fine. As for the toxic squads, iron grasp, down one and go to basement, they follow you to basement, it's game over from there if you play the strategy correctly
  • Rebel_Raven
    Rebel_Raven Member Posts: 1,775
    edited November 2018
    Peanits said:

    Just going to be blunt with my experiences. I don't have a problem with the vast majority of SWF groups. Almost all groups are just a couple buddies sitting around in voice chat, talking away, and occasionally saying something along the lines of "he's camping, just do gens". I've only run into a handful of groups across all my time playing that were trying as hard as possible and coordinating every little thing.

    The reality I've found by not dodging any lobbies regardless of who joins or what they bring, most people are not unstoppable gods, even with their friends.

    Taking flashlights as an example. Flashlights are incredibly easy to counter, and you can actually swing this to your advantage. If you see someone bring a flashlight into the match and you know they're playing with friends, you can count on them staying one step behind you whenever you're chasing someone who's injured. That's one less person working on generators. Now when you do down the guy, quickly check the area, pretend you're about to pick them up, or just face a wall. You'll completely thwart their attempt and they'll have wasted their time. Better yet, there's another guy to chase immediately after you hook the first guy without any searching.

    You need to count on them being altruistic and take advantage of that. I know "adapt" is a dirty word that people like to throw around in spite whenever something gets nerfed, but that's exactly what you gotta' do. Recognize that they're playing together, understand that they're going to be more altruistic because of that, and capitalize on that.

    I see a lot of people dodge lobbies whenever a SWF group joins (or even when they think a SWF group joins, just because more than one person popped into the lobby at once). The problem there is that by avoiding the thing that is beating you, you're never going to learn to counter it. The same goes for survivors who dodge certain killers or certain perks. There is counterplay out there.

    Now I don't mean to say that there aren't "sweaty tryhard" groups out there. They do exist, but they are very few and far between. I have only run into a handful in my time. This is not the vast majority of the groups out there. Voice chat alone doesn't turn average/bad players into gods. If you stick four really good players in a lobby together, voice chat or not, they are going to do extremely well. They'll know when to save, when to do generators, when to stall and when to take a hit. Most info you need is already available in some capacity, barring some niche things (e.g. killer's camping, you would need to spend time to go check).

    I also don't mean to say that there's no benefit at all to using voice chat. It does make you slightly more efficient, there's no doubt there. Yes, you can try to coordinate saves better. But at the end of the day, you're still capped by your own skill level. You can't just join a voice chat and start breaking angles and spinning heads.

    In short, what I'm trying to say is that SWF isn't this insurmountable challenge that it's made out to be. Good players are going to be good players, and they're going to be a little more powerful in a call. But the amount of perfect teams out there is very low, and even then, an equally good killer can still get ~2 kills.

    I'm prepared for the hate I'm going to get for this, but I have and will continue to take on any survivors that end up in my lobby, SWF or not. And every now and then, I have no shame in saying that I'll get completely destroyed as I rightfully should. Not everyone is a top tier player, and you can't win every game. Maybe this all comes back to the ranking system and the way everyone's bound to end up at rank 1 if they play enough, I don't know. But there is a wide range of skill levels at rank 1, and everyone can't be the best at the same time.

    (And for the record, I should say that I'm still on board with balancing SWF. Give solo players similar info and balance around that. That's still the ideal way to go about it.)


    First off, no hate here.

    Outside of farming situations I'm hard pressed to recall 3 or 4 person SWFs that weren't ready to escape by the 5 minute mark. Most time beyond that is spent by that is me trying to get 1k. 
    They're absurdly well organized. 
    I will continue dodging them because getting better is not sufficient incentive to keep getting my butt kicked when I can get better and have decent odds with as many solos as possible. I'm wasting time when I could he getting better BP almost any other way.
    I have no aspirations to be a top tier player as a survivor or killer, I just want to play, and not get dragged through the mud constantly. VS SWF is pretty much that.
    It's not fun.

    Oh, and I'm drifting between rank 16, and 15. They plague me that early on, so I don't play killer as much as I would like. I don't have the time to get dragged by SWFs.
    I suspect if I go back to 20, SWF will be alarmingly common, too.

    Swf dragging new and low level killers will no doubt damage community growth.

    It doesn't help when I know there's odds that the survivors are starting a party chat via ps4 outside of SWF. Probably similar on pc.
    It happens every so often when I'm playing survivor, and I bail, not wanting part of it, or ignoring it in game.
    No reason to think it stops when I play killer.

    Buffing solo to swf level is like giving every player Kindred 3 when not on a hook rather on a personal level, intermittent aura reading on the killer, detective's hunch that is almost always on, and a map they can use pretty freely. And voice chat. Roughly.
    A 4 man SWF has 16 perks to synergize with. They may not use 16 individual perks, but that is a lot of room to play with.
    Even if we were to consider the 4th being solo, that's 12 perks they can synergize with.

    That is a huge amount of work to balance killers with, no?

  • RoKrueger
    RoKrueger Member Posts: 1,371
    edited November 2018
    CosmicKing_ said:
    DarkWo1f997 said:
    Good sir do I have a product for you! 

    When beint bullied, simply face camp and nod. You’re in control, not them. ;) 
    Thank you! I do that when it has to come to that, but then they will think it's so unfair against them that you're doing something remotely annoying and end up messaging you so much bad stuff even though they have bullied you to the extreme? I don't get them. But then again I had a time where I done that but there was 3 people around the hook, ended up getting the person off the hook because I hit somebody around, then I got them down, soon as I moved abit after picking them up I got body blocked by one player and then flashed by the other and the survior escaped, and this happened the majority of the game, until I couldn't be bothered anymore and let them win, but you can't just quit because you'll be a "rage quitter" and you'll get you're rank down, so unfair man.
    Enjoy their salty coments, rejoice in their anger. You ARE a killer. You have not come to this realm to make friends :chuffed:
    And in your case, you claim to be "The king of the Cosmos"! Act like it 
  • Rebel_Raven
    Rebel_Raven Member Posts: 1,775
    edited November 2018
    powerbats said:

    @Peanits Had it right and @Giche and you've already been told that's a bunch of baloney, swf aren't that hard to beat most of the time. The very coordinated ones are indeed rare although they do exist yet you can still get 1-2 of them if not more.

    You and the rest of the killers using this as an excuse refuse to admit that may'be you're the issue here not the swf groups. Marth can go in and destroy 4 man swf groups, others can as well. They didn't get to the point of being so good by blaming everything else for their refusal to get better.

    I hit rank 1 by never dodging, never bringing Ruin, adapting my playstyle and finding a killer that suited me. I used the swef strengths against them, i anticipated saves. I realized bait decoys, I knew when to chase and when not to.

    In the end most swf groups can be beaten, it just takes longer and if you adapt and learn and get better you'll get 3-4k most games. You'll manage to usually get minimum of 2 kills and max out across the board on pretty much everything.

    But if you're all going to keep your head in the sand and your fingers in your ears and blame it on swf etc you'll keep being frustrated.

    "Those who do not remember their past are condemned to repeat their mistakes."

    Aka git gud to beat people playing easier matches, and likely doing game breaking strats.

    Let's stop pretending that SWF isn't basically as different as night and day from multiple solos.

    If it became common for survivors to team up with, and work with the killer via voice comms to help the killer take down survivors you'd be pretty mad, right? It would make the game leagues harder.
    And yet it's perfectly fine for survivors to do that against the killer.
  • Seanzu
    Seanzu Member Posts: 7,526
    edited November 2018

    @Rebel_Raven said:
    Aka git gud to beat people playing easier matches, and likely doing game breaking strats.

    Let's stop pretending that SWF isn't basically as different as night and day from multiple solos.

    What is the issue of being told to play better and take advantage of stupid things SWF do?
    Sometimes you're going to come across a group of survivors SWF or not that are just better than you.